Super Bowl LIII: Patriots vs. Rams

[Moxie]

Ended up a blowout on top of everything. Well you already know I think the NFL will be gone within 30 years. Playoffs like this will hasten that timeframe. Will be interested to see the viewer numbers

It was really boring, and so was the half-time show. New Orleans threw a better party in protest:


There's even a better one of the Jazz funeral they threw, but I can't seem to embed it.

 

[DarthFed]

Goff vs Belichick reminded me of the first 30 seconds of this when Palpatine destroyed some scrub Jedis

 

[britbox]

Goff's performance was on a par with Hayden Christensen's acting.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

So, Is TB officially a GOAT at least now?

 

[DarthFed]

So, Is TB officially a GOAT at least now?

He already was. But those in the know have long realized Belichick is even greater. People are making the silly cross sport comparisons with Brady and MJ. Beyond stupid as a great basketball player has a much greater impact on winning than a great football player. This is the reason Montana and Rice were never high on all-time lists of greatest athletes.

But Belichick is the greatest coach in American sports history IMO. I think coaches in football are the reverse, they are generally more important for success in the NFL compared to most other sports. Brady has had many playoff games where he has sucked (like this past Sunday) and it hasn't mattered. Trust me when I say no other QB in the league has that luxury. If you score less than 20 points in a playoff game you are usually dead.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

He already was.
.

I know he already had more rings than JM. But, as JM did not lose a final (many folks such as you ) were not giving the nod and so asked.

 

[DarthFed]

I know he already had more rings than JM. But, as JM did not lose a final (many folks such as you ) were not giving the nod and so asked.

Haha well I did have JM over TB before #5 for that reason but even then it's a tough comparison. Montana had better teammates but Brady basically has an all-knowing Sith God as coach.

Brady's postseason stats are far from mind-blowing. He has won 3 SB's with scoring less than 20 points in one of the playoff games. He won 1 SB with scoring 20 points in one of the games. In the playoffs on a game-to-game basis he didn't even really outperform Manning. And he is far behind Rodgers (20 or more points in all 16 playoff games) whereas Brady has scored less than 20 in 10 out of 40 games and has a much worse TD/Int ratio.

This is not to say Brady isn't GOAT but it shows just how much of a team sport football is. Just look at the last two SB's, Brady had his best SB performance last year but they lost due to their defense. This year he stunk and they won due to their defense. In football the GOAT and BOAT can be very different. For my money Jerry Rice is the best football player ever and Brady isn't that high on that list.

 

[britbox]

Haha well I did have JM over TB before #5 for that reason but even then it's a tough comparison. Montana had better teammates but Brady basically has an all-knowing Sith God as coach.

Brady's postseason stats are far from mind-blowing. He has won 3 SB's with scoring less than 20 points in one of the playoff games. He won 1 SB with scoring 20 points in one of the games. In the playoffs on a game-to-game basis he didn't even really outperform Manning. And he is far behind Rodgers (20 or more points in all 16 playoff games) whereas Brady has scored less than 20 in 10 out of 40 games and has a much worse TD/Int ratio.

This is not to say Brady isn't GOAT but it shows just how much of a team sport football is. Just look at the last two SB's, Brady had his best SB performance last year but they lost due to their defense. This year he stunk and they won due to their defense. In football the GOAT and BOAT can be very different. For my money Jerry Rice is the best football player ever and Brady isn't that high on that list.

C'mon man... Bill Walsh was hardly chopped liver. He was a fricken legend. Brady's stats are padded by great schemes... but even so, he'd beat out Smokin Joe on the ones he did contribute to, more heavily... Joe was great, but even he was on the wrong end of some pretty severe losses... didn't the Giants beat them 49-3 one year in the playoffs?

 

[DarthFed]

C'mon man... Bill Walsh was hardly chopped liver. He was a fricken legend. Brady's stats are padded by great schemes... but even so, he'd beat out Smokin Joe on the ones he did contribute to, more heavily... Joe was great, but even he was on the wrong end of some pretty severe losses... didn't the Giants beat them 49-3 one year in the playoffs?

Ultimately any coach compared to Belichick is coming out on the wrong end including Walsh. Of course Walsh was tremendous and highly influential but no one is really going to argue him over Belichick.

And like other sports QB's are lasting way longer and of course offenses are simply more dominant now in large part due to league changes. Montana's playoff stats for his day were insane, particularly in the SB so I would disagree about Brady contributing more heavily to his rings compared to Montana. Anyways Brady is GOAT because of rings even though what I'm saying shows just how much of a team game it is. There is a reason Belichick is really pissed they traded Jimmy G, that being he knows he is a threat to win big with any above average QB. It shows he wants to stay even after Brady retires and you could put a total scrub in there and that team probably wins 11+ games most years

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Haha well I did have JM over TB before #5 for that reason but even then it's a tough comparison. Montana had better teammates but Brady basically has an all-knowing Sith God as coach.

Brady's postseason stats are far from mind-blowing. He has won 3 SB's with scoring less than 20 points in one of the playoff games. He won 1 SB with scoring 20 points in one of the games. In the playoffs on a game-to-game basis he didn't even really outperform Manning. And he is far behind Rodgers (20 or more points in all 16 playoff games) whereas Brady has scored less than 20 in 10 out of 40 games and has a much worse TD/Int ratio.

This is not to say Brady isn't GOAT but it shows just how much of a team sport football is. Just look at the last two SB's, Brady had his best SB performance last year but they lost due to their defense. This year he stunk and they won due to their defense. In football the GOAT and BOAT can be very different. For my money Jerry Rice is the best football player ever and Brady isn't that high on that list.

I know team sports is different. I was basically asking whether you believe TB is BOAT ( you had already answsered in the negative). Let me narrow it further. Is TB at least BOAT QB?

p.s. I agree that Belichick is probably the undisputed GOAT.

p.s.2. Was not there a controversy few years ago, when Belichick left in a hurry after losing instead of taking part in the rituals.

 

[DarthFed]

I know team sports is different. I was basically asking whether you believe TB is BOAT ( you had already answsered in the negative). Let me narrow it further. Is TB at least BOAT QB?

p.s. I agree that Belichick is probably the undisputed GOAT.

p.s.2. Was not there a controversy few years ago, when Belichick left in a hurry after losing instead of taking part in the rituals.

I think you could make an argument for Brady as best QB just based on longevity. But there are a lot of other guys in that picture including a couple of his peers. It's definitely amazing that he has done so well at his age.

I think Belichick has had a pretty good argument for greatest coach ever for quite awhile. Clearly it is harder for teams to win rings now compared to before the salary-cap era when everyone could keep their team intact easily. So the discussion of greatness or GOATness on New England depends on how much you attribute their success to Belichick and how much you attribute to Brady. I'd say they've had enough success that they both should be considered GOAT's. But if I'm comparing who is greater and more important I personally don't need to think 5 seconds about it.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

I think you could make an argument for Brady as best QB just based on longevity. But there are a lot of other guys in that picture including a couple of his peers. It's definitely amazing that he has done so well at his age.

I think Belichick has had a pretty good argument for greatest coach ever for quite awhile. Clearly it is harder for teams to win rings now compared to before the salary-cap era when everyone could keep their team intact easily. So the discussion of greatness or GOATness on New England depends on how much you attribute their success to Belichick and how much you attribute to Brady. I'd say they've had enough success that they both should be considered GOAT's. But if I'm comparing who is greater and more important I personally don't need to think 5 seconds about it.

Even if you give them equal credit for the six wins, Belichick has two more wins with NYG and so clearly comes ahead.

 

[DarthFed]

Even if you give them equal credit for the six wins, Belichick has two more wins with NYG and so clearly comes ahead.

Well that was as defensive coordinator. Interestingly, since we are talking best players ever, it seems that Belichick talks pretty strongly about Lawrence Taylor anytime a current player is compared to him.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Well that was as defensive coordinator. Interestingly, since we are talking best players ever, it seems that Belichick talks pretty strongly about Lawrence Taylor anytime a current player is compared to him.

………..you mean including TB?

 

[DarthFed]

………..you mean including TB?

It's more defensive players that are compared to LT. And here is an article where Belichick calls Taylor the best player he's ever seen:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/bill-belichick-ranks-lt-best-192340610.html

 

[Jelenafan]

Well regardless with the 6th SB ring Brady can now snap any haters into oblivion.

The scary part is That the PATs might not even be done yet.

Everybody likes to say how the 2008 Pats went 11-5 with their second string QB Matt Cassel when Brady got his ACL injury. Well that was an extension of the most talent laden Pats team which went 18-1 the previous year.

By tiebreaker rules they failed to make the playoffs do we really don’t know if come crunch time any other QB such as Cassel could have delivered the goods like Brady. People forget Coach Bill struggled in 2000 when veteran QB Drew Bledsoe was his starting QB. Drew was a darn good pro Bowl caliber QB.

Brady: That is what distinguishes/separates him from the rest; when he has to pull together the needed crucial drive to win he does it; even in this SB. Even the more “gifted” QB’s such as Aaron Rodgers and Peyton can’t match that.

In ONE game with all the pressure on. Ditto at the AFC champ game level, Divisional games, etc.

No best of five or seven series in football. Do or Die any given game.

THAT ability alone puts him in the Jordan stratosphere.

 

[DarthFed]

He isn't close to MJ, it's a far different sport. Most people who grasp the sports well wouldnt put Brady above a whole host of basketball players who have a far greater impact on winning.

And I would put a little more stock in what Palpatine has done in more recent years such as 2008 and 2016 with 2nd and 3rd string QB's compared to 2000. Coaches, like players, can get better with time. Yeah I've heard the counter argument that going 11-5 with Matt effing Cassel wasn't that impressive (LOL) due to them going 16-0 the season before. The faulty logic being that the Pats would be expected to go 16-0 or even 15-1 in 2008 simply because of the year before.

Then fast forward to 2016 when the Pats with their 3rd string QB beat the best defense in the NFL 27-0. Their only loss in 4 games without Brady was when that 3rd string scrub was playing hurt against the Bills.

Yes, Brady is extremely clutch and thats been a big factor in the team's success but the fact of the matter is the guy often can suck for 3 quarters and still be ahead or close to it in the big games. That would be hard in the NFL from the 80's on and now it is almost impossible. If your QB plays bad against a playoff team now you are almost always toast. And that's advantage Palpatine. As long as he is in New England they are top 2-3 SB threats no matter who is under center. I guarantee that.

 

[Jelenafan]

• Goodness knows I’m not disputing Coach Bill is the GOAT of coaching, (and in his case of ALL American prof sports teams) in just saying he got the GOAT of QB’s to fulfill his vision

Just compare them to any Coach/QB tandem and it’s not even close.

As to your point about it doesn’t matter whose the QB under Bill, the sobering thought is he may continue for a years after Brady retires to drive that point home.

Not that I would complain...

 

[DarthFed]

• Goodness knows I’m not disputing Coach Bill is the GOAT of coaching, (and in his case of ALL American prof sports teams) in just saying he got the GOAT of QB’s to fulfill his vision

Just compare them to any Coach/QB tandem and it’s not even close.

As to your point about it doesn’t matter whose the QB under Bill, the sobering thought is he may continue for a years after Brady retires to drive that point home.

Not that I would complain...

Think of everything through the years and the only time I've heard of Bill being truly irate is when they traded Jimmy G. Like I said earlier I think his belief is he can run the league with any above average talent at QB. He wanted Jimmy G there for when Brady retires in 4-5 years or whenever.