Shanghai Rolex Masters 2015

[Moxie]

Moxie wrote:
Actually he didn’t omit anything about Djokovic being up in the 3rd, he merely didn’t detail it. What he said was “Novak was better in the second half of the second set and first half of the third. That’s not enough.” This is true. I bolded your point above, that Djokovic didn’t play aggressively enough. That may be so, since you will never agree that Nadal took it to him, but I don’t agree with the notion that the third set, while critical, negated Djokovic mounting a response in the fourth and taking it to a fifth, which he didn’t.

Well this just shows you possess little semblance of understanding of the psychological and fitness aspects of intensive athletic competition or training. This isn’t just a tennis-specific issue but a sport-wide issue. Both players knew the third set was going to be decisive based on the intensive rallies of the first 3 sets. Coming back from 2 sets to 1 down was going to be close to physically impossible given how long most of the rallies had been in sets 1 and 2. In order to understand this, you need to have engaged in intensive training and competition at some point in your life so that you can relate to someone pushing themselves to their physical limits.

And this shows how you create a narrative to fit your needs.  Everyone would agree that the 3rd set was crucial, but Djokovic and Nadal both are experienced at the long-game.  You didn't view the world through Rafa-hating goggles.  Above, you wrote this:
<blockquote> "As for the 2013 Wimbledon final, yes, Djokovic was poor, but he had a long and physical 5-set match with Delpo on Friday and I just saw that as Murray’s moment more than anything else. It is unfortunate that Murray stunk it up in the 2011 semis after that overhead against Nadal and simply cannot beat Federer on the big stage, but Murray always gives Djokovic some nagging match-up problems that make their matches sticky. Murray was bound to win one and it happened that day."<blockquote>

</a></div>Even if we skip the fact that Djokovic played a tough 5-setter v. Murray in Oz 2012 before beating Nadal in another long one 2 days later, you just roll over on it being "Murray's moment."  But when it is pointed out to you who was playing the best hard court tennis in that period of time (Nadal, at that point undefeated on HC all of 2013, won the N.Am. hc summer swing,) you won't hear it.  Neverminding that, in addition to that, Nadal had already won the USO, and 9 other majors besides, to Murray's one major title, and that it was his maiden Wimbledon.  You also ignore the H2H between each and Novak when you bring the "nagging match-up problems" Murray gives Djokovic, not to mention today's results.

You're blinkered when it comes to both Nadal, and Nalbandian, though in opposite ways.  (I shouldn't embarrass you in your final comment by telling you that I'm a marathon runner, but I will.)

 

[Billie]

MikeOne wrote:
what’s strange about Djokovic is that i really don’t see him playing at his top form, he still is able to dominate guys like Murray. Djokovic is just playing consistent, doing everything well but i feel he can still go for more winners.. I think Murray was a bit off and this explains the scoreline.

Why change a winning strategy? He plays percentages better than anyone else on the tour

I agree.  These matches depend so much on current forms of both players, mental state, every player tries to assert himself in a match and attempts to play his preferred way.   I think Andy didn't serve as well as he usually can, but honestly some part of it has to be contributed to Nole's excellent return these past two weeks.

I was surprised that there were not a lot of long rallies in today's match, those always thrill me but at the same time scare me as they are so darn physical.   Nole even went to net with more purpose and deliberation, frankly I am happy to see him improve on this and shorten some of the points against players like Andy.

 

[calitennis127]

Marathon running has absolutely nothing at all to do with what I am talking about. Being involved with a game where there is a ball, a score, and extreme intensive exertions is entirely different.

Anyone can hop on a treadmill and run.

 

[calitennis127]

what’s strange about Djokovic is that i really don’t see him playing at his top form, he still is able to dominate guys like Murray. Djokovic is just playing consistent, doing everything well but i feel he can still go for more winners.. I think Murray was a bit off and this explains the scoreline.

 

I agree that Murray was probably off. Nadal also saved himself a likely beatdown by losing to Tsonga given the way Djokovic erupted today.

 

[Mastoor]

MikeOne wrote:
what’s strange about Djokovic is that i really don’t see him playing at his top form, he still is able to dominate guys like Murray. Djokovic is just playing consistent, doing everything well but i feel he can still go for more winners.. I think Murray was a bit off and this explains the scoreline.

I agree that Murray was probably off. Nadal also saved himself a likely beatdown by losing to Tsonga given the way Djokovic erupted today.

 

Funny how before the match , Murray was in excellent form with a hope to beat No1e, even Murray at #1 after USO next year was discussed and now when he was demolished by the actual #1 he was "a bit off".

 

 

 

 

 

[Moxie]

Marathon running has absolutely nothing at all to do with what I am talking about. Being involved with a game where there is a ball, a score, and extreme intensive exertions is entirely different.

Anyone can hop on a treadmill and run.

If you like to think that's how it's done, go ahead. In any case, you are speculating about stresses on an elite tennis player as much as I would be. I agree that Nadal snagging that 3rd set was a crusher for Novak, but that doesn't wholly explain him losing the 4th at 1. Or it shouldn't. He did fight in the 4th, but Rafa upped his level and pulled away from him. At the AO in 2012, Rafa lost the 2nd and 3rd sets, but fought for the 4th and made a big fight of the 5th. In order to even begin to argue that Novak "shouldn't" have lost the USO 2013, he would have needed to fight it to a 5th, at the very least, imo. In any case, though, you're arguing the resume, not the form at the time. It just bugs the crap out of you that Nadal won yet another Major, which he properly did. And it was 2 years ago, so you really ought to get over it.

As to the topic, I doubt Tsonga has it in him to beat Djokovic tomorrow, though I'm glad to see him back to good form. The win over Rafa sees him back in the top 10 for the first time in over a year. Novak in 2.

 

[JesuslookslikeBorg]

murray forgot to win. Djokovic forgot to lose.

 

[JesuslookslikeBorg]

Suddenly Rafa’s chance to win this looks very good. He is back to his best form and will probably beat gassed Tsonga easily like he destroyed gassed Wawrinka. He also starts his semi 4 hours before the other one that is likely to be more even, longer and more grueling, so he will likely get some 5 or 6 hours more rest than his opponent in the final and after one much easier win.

lol.

 

[britbox]

Mastoor wrote:
Suddenly Rafa’s chance to win this looks very good. He is back to his best form and will probably beat gassed Tsonga easily like he destroyed gassed Wawrinka. He also starts his semi 4 hours before the other one that is likely to be more even, longer and more grueling, so he will likely get some 5 or 6 hours more rest than his opponent in the final and after one much easier win.

lol.

Something tells me @Mastoor won't be too heart broken in getting this prediction wrong  B-)

 

[Moxie]

jesuslookslikeborg wrote:
<blockquote>
Mastoor wrote:
Suddenly Rafa’s chance to win this looks very good. He is back to his best form and will probably beat gassed Tsonga easily like he destroyed gassed Wawrinka. He also starts his semi 4 hours before the other one that is likely to be more even, longer and more grueling, so he will likely get some 5 or 6 hours more rest than his opponent in the final and after one much easier win.

lol.

</blockquote>
Something tells me @Mastoor won’t be too heart broken in getting this prediction wrong

I told him he had nothing to worry about, in any case.  I'll stand by that.

 

[Billie]

Did they have to schedule the final at 4:30am my time?

 

[herios]

Andy Murray was way off today. The serve was very poor. But some of it has to do with who was he facing.

I think JWT will be a more worthy opponent, but I would like to see another master win for Novak to bring his total this year to 5.

 

[britbox]

Andy Murray was way off today. The serve was very poor. But some of it has to do with who was he facing. I think JWT will be a more worthy opponent, but I would like to see another master win for Novak to bring his total this year to 5.

Agreed @herios, and people tend to say "if he'd have played as well he did yesterday then..."  - but they weren't playing the same player!

It's been a good week of tennis though, Shanghai often seems an anti-climax for me but not this year - it's been interesting. I hope the YEC is going to be even better!

 

 

[britbox]

Novak the machine.... takes Tsonga in straights - 6-2, 6-4.

He's got the answers to everything right now.  5th Masters title of the year.  Next stop Paris.

 

[herios]

Novak the machine…. takes Tsonga in straights – 6-2, 6-4. He’s got the answers to everything right now. 5th Masters title of the year. Next stop Paris.

I am a very happy fan. It does not get much better than this. In order to best his 2011, Nole needs to win one or the other, Paris or London.

 

[Billie]

As far as I am concerned,, this is Nole's best year ever.  Congratulations to him and his team.  A nice birthday present for his son.

 

[MikeOne]

he hasn't lost a set in two tournaments

 

[Billie]

It sometimes happens that way.  He is healthy, had a bit of productive time off the court with his foundation, came here motivated and took advantage of other guys who didn't show their best.  In the two weeks in China, he really didn't have any physically demanding matches and that helps as well.  It is sometimes as simple as that.

 

[Billie]

The doubles final ended up with Raven Klaasen and Marcelo Melo winning over Simone Bolelli and Fabio Fognini.  I guess I didn't get the desired result here, but making a big final like this one is also a good achievement.  I think the Italians qualified for WTF, F3 posted on FB:  see you in London.

 

[Mastoor]

he hasn’t lost a set in two tournaments

I am too lazy to calculate but I am quite sure he lost less than 3 games per set average and I think his matches were less than 70 minutes long per average . That's in 2 tournaments in China.