September/October Tennis Magazine: UNCLE TONI, Greatest Coach Ever?

[brokenshoelace]

Haven't really been following this thread, but I must admit I forgot about Richard Williams. That's a debate ender right there. Has to be him surely. Particularly when you consider the resistance they would have had to face. From Compton to Centre Court... 2 siblings? One you might call a fluke or freakish.. but two? No question.. it has to be Richard Williams

Kieran pointed it out half-jokingly but he's right, Richard Williams was a coach on the WTA tour. That kind of rules him out of this particular discussion.

 

[DarthFed]

Greatest coach is always going to be a subjective matter especially when we are talking coaches of one player, even if that player is one of the best ever. When you have someone coach multiple players who show noticeable improvement when they come and/or noticeably fall off when the coach is gone then you can say such and such is a great coach. As an example Lendl is looking better and better with Murray badly struggling this year, but even still you might hold off calling him a great coach until if/when he takes on another coaching job.

 

[Moxie]

Haven't really been following this thread, but I must admit I forgot about Richard Williams. That's a debate ender right there. Has to be him surely. Particularly when you consider the resistance they would have had to face. From Compton to Centre Court... 2 siblings? One you might call a fluke or freakish.. but two? No question.. it has to be Richard Williams

Kieran pointed it out half-jokingly but he's right, Richard Williams was a coach on the WTA tour. That kind of rules him out of this particular discussion.

I don't see why it would, as we're talking about tennis coaches, and he is one. Unless you mean this is an ATP conversation, but we don't always adhere to that, strictly. And I'm not saying that as a woman or a feminist, just that it's a fair point about R. Wms.

Greatest coach is always going to be a subjective matter especially when we are talking coaches of one player, even if that player is one of the best ever. When you have someone coach multiple players who show noticeable improvement when they come and/or noticeably fall off when the coach is gone then you can say such and such is a great coach. As an example Lendl is looking better and better with Murray badly struggling this year, but even still you might hold off calling him a great coach until if/when he takes on another coaching job.

I get the point that Toni raising a great player from scratch, (and Richard Williams two of them,) is one kind of interesting accomplishment, but, on the other hand, being a small sample-size. Lendl, at his point, might just be called the right person at the right time for an already elite player, so I think we have to reserve judgement on him.

 

[DarthFed]

^ Agreed, but Murray improved and broke through in a big way with Ivan and has now regressed a lot. But the back injury might be a big part there. I will be interested to see if Lendl coaches again, I thought I read somewhere that Berdych might hire him?

 

[Moxie]

^ Agreed, but Murray improved and broke through in a big way with Ivan and has now regressed a lot. But the back injury might be a big part there. I will be interested to see if Lendl coaches again, I thought I read somewhere that Berdych might hire him?

Lendl had lost the first 4 major finals he was in, and so had Murray. They were a match made in heaven for a specific problem. And Lendl got Murray over the hump. That's good credit. But there is nothing to make us believe that he would serve anyone else as well.

Berdych could be interesting. But if Lendl keeps coaching, and left Murray in the lurch, I'll think less of him.

 

[Federberg]

Haven't really been following this thread, but I must admit I forgot about Richard Williams. That's a debate ender right there. Has to be him surely. Particularly when you consider the resistance they would have had to face. From Compton to Centre Court... 2 siblings? One you might call a fluke or freakish.. but two? No question.. it has to be Richard Williams

Kieran pointed it out half-jokingly but he's right, Richard Williams was a coach on the WTA tour. That kind of rules him out of this particular discussion.

I'm not sure the discussion specified ATP, but if that's the case ok. I can stipulate that there's a case to be made for Uncle Toni as being the most successful ATP coach ever.. but Richard Williams for tennis in general I think

 

[Kieran]

^ Agreed, but Murray improved and broke through in a big way with Ivan and has now regressed a lot. But the back injury might be a big part there. I will be interested to see if Lendl coaches again, I thought I read somewhere that Berdych might hire him?

Lendl had lost the first 4 major finals he was in, and so had Murray. They were a match made in heaven for a specific problem. And Lendl got Murray over the hump. That's good credit. But there is nothing to make us believe that he would serve anyone else as well.

Berdych could be interesting. But if Lendl keeps coaching, and left Murray in the lurch, I'll think less of him.

In fairness, Lendl and Murray had long discussions about continuing together but they couldn't agree a schedule. They parted on good terms, and if Ivan finds a schedule that works with Berdy, that's okay, he's done nothing wrong on Andy.

Anyway, Andy isn't in the lurch - he has the lovely fragrant Amelie to help him...

 

[brokenshoelace]

Haven't really been following this thread, but I must admit I forgot about Richard Williams. That's a debate ender right there. Has to be him surely. Particularly when you consider the resistance they would have had to face. From Compton to Centre Court... 2 siblings? One you might call a fluke or freakish.. but two? No question.. it has to be Richard Williams

Kieran pointed it out half-jokingly but he's right, Richard Williams was a coach on the WTA tour. That kind of rules him out of this particular discussion.

I don't see why it would, as we're talking about tennis coaches, and he is one. Unless you mean this is an ATP conversation, but we don't always adhere to that, strictly. And I'm not saying that as a woman or a feminist, just that it's a fair point about R. Wms.

We're talking tennis coaches on the men's tennis front.

 

[Federberg]

Haven't really been following this thread, but I must admit I forgot about Richard Williams. That's a debate ender right there. Has to be him surely. Particularly when you consider the resistance they would have had to face. From Compton to Centre Court... 2 siblings? One you might call a fluke or freakish.. but two? No question.. it has to be Richard Williams

Kieran pointed it out half-jokingly but he's right, Richard Williams was a coach on the WTA tour. That kind of rules him out of this particular discussion.

I don't see why it would, as we're talking about tennis coaches, and he is one. Unless you mean this is an ATP conversation, but we don't always adhere to that, strictly. And I'm not saying that as a woman or a feminist, just that it's a fair point about R. Wms.

We're talking tennis coaches on the men's tennis front.

The thread might have moved to a focus on men's tennis, but...

"With 14 Grand Slams singles titles and a seemingly unbreakable relationship with Rafa, it's hard to overlook Toni Nadal as the greatest coach ever."

... the statement above doesn't specify mens tennis. So as I said..if it's just men's tennis, I agree Toni is the most successful. I always shy away from "greatest"

 

[DarthFed]

^ Agreed, but Murray improved and broke through in a big way with Ivan and has now regressed a lot. But the back injury might be a big part there. I will be interested to see if Lendl coaches again, I thought I read somewhere that Berdych might hire him?

Lendl had lost the first 4 major finals he was in, and so had Murray. They were a match made in heaven for a specific problem. And Lendl got Murray over the hump. That's good credit. But there is nothing to make us believe that he would serve anyone else as well.

Berdych could be interesting. But if Lendl keeps coaching, and left Murray in the lurch, I'll think less of him.

You make it sound like they were destined to succeed due to Lendl losing his first 4 finals as well. I'm pretty sure there's more to it than that. Murray was playing more aggressive and held up better in the crucial moments. I'd like to see him coach again and Berd would be a great candidate.

 

[the AntiPusher]

^ Agreed, but Murray improved and broke through in a big way with Ivan and has now regressed a lot. But the back injury might be a big part there. I will be interested to see if Lendl coaches again, I thought I read somewhere that Berdych might hire him?

Lendl had lost the first 4 major finals he was in, and so had Murray. They were a match made in heaven for a specific problem. And Lendl got Murray over the hump. That's good credit. But there is nothing to make us believe that he would serve anyone else as well.

Berdych could be interesting. But if Lendl keeps coaching, and left Murray in the lurch, I'll think less of him.

You make it sound like they were destined to succeed due to Lendl losing his first 4 finals as well. I'm pretty sure there's more to it than that. Murray was playing more aggressive and held up better in the crucial moments. I'd like to see him coach again and Berd would be a great candidate.

If there is a coach that can get Berdych to win a GS title, that would be a major achievement.. I wonder what goes between the ears of players such as Berdych, JowillieTs and Monfils when they see players like Stan and Cilic hoist a GS championship trophy. Its has got to be gut wrenching to know that they have the talent, skills but not the mind set.

 

[NADAL2005RG]

I think Toni also does not get enough credit for developing Rafa as a human being.

That's probably because Nadal lives with his parents and sister too.
And I don't see many (if any) similarities between Nadal and his Uncle's personality anyway.