Rublev: "Real tennis is played on clay"

[PhiEaglesfan712]

Excuse me? What's wrong with the BJK Tennis Center? It's an excellent tennis venue. Where would you prefer that the USO be played, and on what surface?

I agree that the BJK Tennis Center is an excellent tennis venue. The only thing that could be argued is better is Indian Wells, and I wouldn't mind it being relocated there. IW deserves a better time slot than March. I'd just make New York a 2-week Masters, and keep Toronto and Cincy one weekers. I love the Cincy Masters, but both Toronto and Cincy going 2 weeks in 2025 is overkill.

 

[Kieran]

As to your list, clay has always been my favorite, too. It seems to create more of the pitched-battle. I don't love the hard courts because they were essentially a way of being cheap, and at the risk of the players' joints. As surfaces, they're more consistent and controlable, to some extent, but they are basically played on top of concrete, which I don't think is great for the players. However, it's 3/4 of the tour and no one can change that.

It’s a good point about hards. They’re definitely cheaply maintained, and in Ireland (and I’m sure other countries) the popular cheap solution is tarmacadam courts for public use. Hard courts lead to cheap generic styles. There’s none of the idiosyncrasy of clay or grass. The distinctiveness. These natural surfaces lead to some interesting styles. We all know of clay courters with ridiculous twisty grips that defy the wrist to snap. Heavy strategy-laden spins. Exaggerated everything. The laws of physics and biology being rewritten. Sometimes grass also throws up strange shapes and curves too.

Hards? Steadiness, flatness, similarities everywhere…

 

[don_fabio]

We all know of clay courters with ridiculous twisty grips that defy the wrist to snap.

 

[Kieran]

View attachment 8131

A very good example! ‘How’ is the question! How?!

 

[don_fabio]

A very good example! ‘How’ is the question! How?!

An endemic species that defies the laws of physics.

 

[Moxie]

I agree that the BJK Tennis Center is an excellent tennis venue. The only thing that could be argued is better is Indian Wells, and I wouldn't mind it being relocated there. IW deserves a better time slot than March. I'd just make New York a 2-week Masters, and keep Toronto and Cincy one weekers. I love the Cincy Masters, but both Toronto and Cincy going 2 weeks in 2025 is overkill.

I've never been to IW, but I believe all the accounts that it's a beautiful venue. However, all the other Majors are played in major cities. IW is 125 miles from LA. I would argue it's a bit of a "wealthy" destination for tennis viewers. Sure, NYC is expensive, but your average New Yorker, or folks from the environs can come for a day or two or more, via public transportation. Also, one-day attendance record at IW is 61,000. At BJK, 72,000+. Can Indian Wells seat that many more people, and can the town absorb them in accommodations? That's 11,000 people. Does Indian Wells offer as much for visitors to do aside from the potential tennis Major? Yes, Joshua Tree is close, but, besides golf, what else? Plus, let's face it..."If you can make it here, you can make it anywhere." Does Indian Wells have as good a slogan, or anywhere near as many theme songs?

 

[Kieran]

I've never been to IW, but I believe all the accounts that it's a beautiful venue. However, all the other Majors are played in major cities. IW is 125 miles from LA. I would argue it's a bit of a "wealthy" destination for tennis viewers. Sure, NYC is expensive, but your average New Yorker, or folks from the environs can come for a day or two or more, via public transportation. Also, one-day attendance record at IW is 61,000. At BJK, 72,000+. Can Indian Wells seat that many more people, and can the town absorb them in accommodations? That's 11,000 people. Does Indian Wells offer as much for visitors to do aside from the potential tennis Major? Yes, Joshua Tree is close, but, besides golf, what else? Plus, let's face it..."If you can make it here, you can make it anywhere." Does Indian Wells have as good a slogan, or anywhere near as many theme songs?

In fairness, I’m sure they’d easily build to accommodate if they knew they were hosting the USO. Next year the IW tourney lasts from 4-17 March. They’re expecting crowds. It’s a long tournament. Almost as long as the USO, and they don’t have a problem drawing a crowd. Fans don’t seem to mind to go there every year. They’re not getting ripped off by big city BS. Fans will go. If the USO was there, even more fans would go. They’ve never had trouble in that regard.

I’m not advocating change but it is possible that IW would be the ideal venue. Slams don’t have to take place in big cities. It would actually help the economies of smaller places too, which makes it even more attractive…

 

[PhiEaglesfan712]

In fairness, I’m sure they’d easily build to accommodate if they knew they were hosting the USO. Next year the IW tourney lasts from 4-17 March. They’re expecting crowds. It’s a long tournament. Almost as long as the USO, and they don’t have a problem drawing a crowd. Fans don’t seem to mind to go there every year. They’re not getting ripped off by big city BS. Fans will go. If the USO was there, even more fans would go. They’ve never had trouble in that regard.

I’m not advocating change but it is possible that IW would be the ideal venue. Slams don’t have to take place in big cities. It would actually help the economies of smaller places too, which makes it even more attractive…

Is it me or is IW getting earlier and earlier each year? March 4 is barely the beginning of the North American spring. Very soon, it will start taking place in February, during the North American winter. That is way too early to be holding a tournament like this, lol.

 

[Kieran]

Is it me or is IW getting earlier and earlier each year? March 4 is barely the beginning of the North American spring. Very soon, it will start taking place in February, during the North American winter. That is way too early to be holding a tournament like this, lol.

I feels like that but I just checked the last ten years-ish and in 2015 it started on the 11th March, but generally it’s between the 3rd and 7th. It definitely feels like it’s coming quickly - maybe because the Australian Open moved back a week, did it?

 

[Moxie]

In fairness, I’m sure they’d easily build to accommodate if they knew they were hosting the USO. Next year the IW tourney lasts from 4-17 March. They’re expecting crowds. It’s a long tournament. Almost as long as the USO, and they don’t have a problem drawing a crowd. Fans don’t seem to mind to go there every year. They’re not getting ripped off by big city BS. Fans will go. If the USO was there, even more fans would go. They’ve never had trouble in that regard.

I’m not advocating change but it is possible that IW would be the ideal venue. Slams don’t have to take place in big cities. It would actually help the economies of smaller places too, which makes it even more attractive…

I'm sure IW would be a lovely place to host the US Open, and they could expand to accommodate. I actually won't be surprised if it eventually happens. But do you see my point about it being a luxury venue? Not so many "regular Joe's" would get to go. Sure, there's "big city BS" in New York, but isn't there in London and Paris? (I suspect, but don't know, that Melbourne is a little more laid-back and easier to deal with, and perhaps even more affordable, aside from the airfare.) Every Major has its locals, and those who come in especially. Whether you come from close or far, for those who make the trip for the tennis, it's nice to have other things on offer. It's a destination. Indian Wells is not what most people would consider a "destination." Sure, you could visit LA and Joshua Tree while you're there, but not at the same time. Aside from the tennis tourists, and I think this is important, there would not be that many locals who could come. It's too far from anywhere, and the average ticket price is much higher than the US Open in NYC.

As I said, I've never been there, so maybe @Jelenafan can say more about what it's like, having been there this year.

 

[Kieran]

I'm sure IW would be a lovely place to host the US Open, and they could expand to accommodate. I actually won't be surprised if it eventually happens. But do you see my point about it being a luxury venue? Not so many "regular Joe's" would get to go. Sure, there's "big city BS" in New York, but isn't there in London and Paris? (I suspect, but don't know, that Melbourne is a little more laid-back and easier to deal with, and perhaps even more affordable, aside from the airfare.) Every Major has its locals, and those who come in especially. Whether you come from close or far, for those who make the trip for the tennis, it's nice to have other things on offer. It's a destination. Indian Wells is not what most people would consider a "destination." Sure, you could visit LA and Joshua Tree while you're there, but not at the same time. Aside from the tennis tourists, and I think this is important, there would not be that many locals who could come. It's too far from anywhere, and the average ticket price is much higher than the US Open in NYC.

As I said, I've never been there, so maybe @Jelenafan can say more about what it's like, having been there this year.

People go to Indian Wells every year, to watch a tournament that isn’t even a slam, so imagine how many would go if it was a slam? And New York is a luxury place too. But I wasn’t making the point that it should move to Indian wells, but that there’s no good reason why it couldn’t move there. I actually would think that if it was to move then a move to some venue in the Midwest might be a better idea, move it away from elitist places and provide encouragement for neglected economies…

 

[tented]

People go to Indian Wells every year, to watch a tournament that isn’t even a slam, so imagine how many would go if it was a slam? And New York is a luxury place too. But I wasn’t making the point that it should move to Indian wells, but that there’s no good reason why it couldn’t move there. I actually would think that if it was to move then a move to some venue in the Midwest might be a better idea, move it away from elitist places and provide encouragement for neglected economies…

With the Cincinnati Masters moving to NC, all big US tournaments will be on the coasts: IW on the west coast, and the US Open, Miami, and Charlotte, NC, on the east coast. It’s too bad the Cincinnati tournament wasn’t moved to, say, St. Louis or Chicago to give everyone between the coasts a closer place to go. @kskate2 - you know Chicago: what do you think about a Masters level tournament there?

 

[Kieran]

With the Cincinnati Masters moving to NC, all big US tournaments will be on the coasts: IW on the west coast, and the US Open, Miami, and Charlotte, NC, on the east coast. It’s too bad the Cincinnati tournament wasn’t moved to, say, St. Louis or Chicago to give everyone between the coasts a closer place to go.

I think you’re right. It’s like your country looks after the coast cities more, but what about the people in between? That’s definitely a missed opportunity for tennis fans elsewhere, to move the Cinci tourney to Charlotte…

 

[Moxie]

People go to Indian Wells every year, to watch a tournament that isn’t even a slam, so imagine how many would go if it was a slam? And New York is a luxury place too. But I wasn’t making the point that it should move to Indian wells, but that there’s no good reason why it couldn’t move there. I actually would think that if it was to move then a move to some venue in the Midwest might be a better idea, move it away from elitist places and provide encouragement for neglected economies…

My point is that more middle and lower income folks live within a distance they can go to BJK Tennis Center than do to IW, I'm pretty sure of that. NYC is a more democratic venue option, generally speaking. For one, you can get there on public transportation. But I don't mean to quibble. I hope they don't move it, but I think eventually they very well might.

 

[Moxie]

With the Cincinnati Masters moving to NC, all big US tournaments will be on the coasts: IW on the west coast, and the US Open, Miami, and Charlotte, NC, on the east coast. It’s too bad the Cincinnati tournament wasn’t moved to, say, St. Louis or Chicago to give everyone between the coasts a closer place to go.

It looks like it's not a done-deal yet. I found this article from today.

https://www.wdtn.com/sports/western... purchased by a,called “Project Break Point.”

 

[Kieran]

My point is that more middle and lower income folks live within a distance they can go to BJK Tennis Center than do to IW, I'm pretty sure of that. NYC is a more democratic venue option, generally speaking. For one, you can get there on public transportation. But I don't mean to quibble. I hope they don't move it, but I think eventually they very well might.

Certainly more ‘democratic’ for New Yorkers to go watch, among the many other things they can go see, and that might be reason enough to move it to a less privileged state, but far as I know, there’s no rumblings at the moment. The USO and Australian Open have been the two slams that have tampered with things more, changing venues and surfaces, whereas London and Paris have been steadfast in (rightly) nurturing their traditions. Maybe tradition sits better there.

Staying with the thread topic, I hope that someday one of the two more innovative slams goes for clay. There’s no valid reason why there ought to be 2 hard court slams. It seems prejudicial against the historical surfaces of the slams…

 

[Fiero425]

Is it me or is IW getting earlier and earlier each year? March 4 is barely the beginning of the North American spring. Very soon, it will start taking place in February, during the North American winter. That is way too early to be holding a tournament like this, lol.

IW's still in the California desert so I don't think they have to worry about it! The main problem they've had over the years is blowing sand!