Rootin' for the Villain

[huntingyou]

Never understood how somebody could "hate" greatness.

There are villains for sure, but at the end of the day they are humans beings I have never met.

Love watching Roger BTW.

 

[I.Haychew]

I'm with DarthFed...I have never rooted phor, and will never root phor, Nadal. I despise him so much that I rephuse to watch him play live, unless it's a match against Djokovic. I will watch re-runs of matches that he's lost, but those are phew and phar between.

 

[Moxie]

I'm with DarthFed...I have never rooted phor, and will never root phor, Nadal. I despise him so much that I rephuse to watch him play live, unless it's a match against Djokovic. I will watch re-runs of matches that he's lost, but those are phew and phar between.

Wow, who knew? So you refuse to watch a guy who has won 14 Majors and more MS than anyone? He's that good, and so good, in "phact", that his losses are "phew and phar between," but you won't even watch him play? That's a strong statement, though not an especially impressive one about how much you like tennis. It's 'phascinating' how bitterly the anti-Nadal folks dislike him. Why is that, do you think?

 

[nehmeth]

I'm with DarthFed...I have never rooted phor, and will never root phor, Nadal. I despise him so much that I rephuse to watch him play live, unless it's a match against Djokovic. I will watch re-runs of matches that he's lost, but those are phew and phar between.

Wow, who knew? So you refuse to watch a guy who has won 14 Majors and more MS than anyone? He's that good, and so good, in "phact", that his losses are "phew and phar between," but you won't even watch him play? That's a strong statement, though not an especially impressive one about how much you like tennis. It's 'phascinating' how bitterly the anti-Nadal folks dislike him. Why is that, do you think?

I.H. has always been very clear and consistent in his views toward Rafa. Up to this point you've been pretty consistent in letting it roll off your back. Understandably, with the revelation of this most recent injury every fan is going to be a little tetchy. To challenge Chew's love for the sport is going too far.

Rafa plays the game of tennis like a midfielder plays football; the ability to instantly go from defense to offense is incredible, his footwork is brilliant and his determination is unparalleled. However, to some, watching him play the game the way he does is quite different from the tennis they've always known. Add the repetitive quirks and what some consider questionable on court behavior - the antipathy isn't that remarkable. While you do watch Djokovic play, it's almost(?) always with the hope that he will lose.

He may not watch Ralf play, but I.H. watches and enjoys tennis. There are those who will stop watching when Rafa hangs up his shoes, and many who will watch with less interest. There are also those who will do the same when Fed retires, Novak too. Methinks "Chewy" will still be loving tennis for a long time beyond that.

 

[Kieran]

However, to some, watching him play the game the way he does is quite different from the tennis they've always known.

That's an interesting phrase there, buddy, it's not the first time I've seen it: Rafa playing tennis that's so different to whatever went before. It's probably worth exploring more. Obviously players are a product of their time, and their style is a symptom of a greater trend in the sport, so maybe Rafa is the player who first grasped the attritional implications of this new baseline war we're seeing, where even players like Federer stay back and rally.

Or it could be that he's influenced the game to go more that way...

 

[nehmeth]

However, to some, watching him play the game the way he does is quite different from the tennis they've always known.

That's an interesting phrase there, buddy, it's not the first time I've seen it: Rafa playing tennis that's so different to whatever went before. It's probably worth exploring more. Obviously players are a product of their time, and their style is a symptom of a greater trend in the sport, so maybe Rafa is the player who first grasped the attritional implications of this new baseline war we're seeing, where even players like Federer stay back and rally.

Or it could be that he's influenced the game to go more that way...

Personally, I doubt that there will be a new trend to play the game the way Rafa plays it, because I doubt that it's possible anyone else can do it. There may be elements of his game that will be copied, but that's about it.

 

[britbox]

^ Agreed, I don't think there are too many sergeant-major uncles out there proposing their right hand nephews go southpaw.

 

[Billie]

There are two things that are no-no as far as I am concerned:

1. don't mess with Nole

2. don't mess with IH

:nono

 

[I.Haychew]

I'm with DarthFed...I have never rooted phor, and will never root phor, Nadal. I despise him so much that I rephuse to watch him play live, unless it's a match against Djokovic. I will watch re-runs of matches that he's lost, but those are phew and phar between.

Wow, who knew? So you refuse to watch a guy who has won 14 Majors and more MS than anyone? He's that good, and so good, in "phact", that his losses are "phew and phar between," but you won't even watch him play? That's a strong statement, though not an especially impressive one about how much you like tennis. It's 'phascinating' how bitterly the anti-Nadal folks dislike him. Why is that, do you think?

Hey, what can I say...I admit that I'm shallow, bitter, envious, resentphul, whatever when it comes to Nadal. Yes, it's un-Christian-like. But, I'm not Jesus. I'm only human. I respect Nadal. He's awesome. Still, I can't stand him. Iph he wasn't (or is it "weren't"?...I never understood that) so damned good, and iph he didn't routinely beat all my phaves, then I wouldn't care. Not that it means anything...But I couldn't stand Michael Jordan and the Bulls, or the Yankees, or Magic Johnson and the Lakers, or Larry Bird and the Celtics, either. I think I actually "H-worded" them more than I "H-word" Nadal. It's dephinitely close, though. Iph my "H-wording" them means that I'm not a phan of sports, then I guess I'm not a phan of sports.

You can't say the "H-word" on here, can you? Let's phind out...Hate

Hmmm...I guess you can!

 

[Billie]

^^ Well said IH, we are all human...honestly sometimes being frank about our feelings towards people or things can be good or bad. I sometimes feel I should change and maybe not be as frank as I've been, but I forget what I decided when I start typing and say something stupid or inappropriate over and over again.:laydownlaughing

 

[Moxie]

I'm with DarthFed...I have never rooted phor, and will never root phor, Nadal. I despise him so much that I rephuse to watch him play live, unless it's a match against Djokovic. I will watch re-runs of matches that he's lost, but those are phew and phar between.

Wow, who knew? So you refuse to watch a guy who has won 14 Majors and more MS than anyone? He's that good, and so good, in "phact", that his losses are "phew and phar between," but you won't even watch him play? That's a strong statement, though not an especially impressive one about how much you like tennis. It's 'phascinating' how bitterly the anti-Nadal folks dislike him. Why is that, do you think?

Hey, what can I say...I admit that I'm shallow, bitter, envious, resentphul, whatever when it comes to Nadal. Yes, it's un-Christian-like. But, I'm not Jesus. I'm only human. I respect Nadal. He's awesome. Still, I can't stand him. Iph he wasn't (or is it "weren't"?...I never understood that) so damned good, and iph he didn't routinely beat all my phaves, then I wouldn't care. Not that it means anything...But I couldn't stand Michael Jordan and the Bulls, or the Yankees, or Magic Johnson and the Lakers, or Larry Bird and the Celtics, either. I think I actually "H-worded" them more than I "H-word" Nadal. It's dephinitely close, though. Iph my "H-wording" them means that I'm not a phan of sports, then I guess I'm not a phan of sports.

You can't say the "H-word" on here, can you? Let's phind out...Hate

Hmmm...I guess you can!

Hahaha, IHaychew! Very phrank response. (Now I'll have to stop with the "ph" conversions, for the sake of facility.) Many who hate (as you say, we can say it) Nadal swear it's about the way he plays. At least you own up to it that it's about him beating your favorites. I really have never understood the description of his play as "ugly." I understand that aesthetics can come into it for tennis fans, but I don't believe that so many "hate" a style of play. What they "hate" are the results.

 

[britbox]

^That's rather presumptious. I don't like Nadal... and I don't like Gilles Simon either.... or David Ferrer, and it's not only about results for a lot of people.

 

[Moxie]

^That's rather presumptious. I don't like Nadal... and I don't like Gilles Simon either.... or David Ferrer, and it's not only about results for a lot of people.

Perhaps it is presumptuous. But I've never had anyone explain as well why they dislike Nadal's tennis as IHaychew, amongst those who find it just "ugly", and whatever all words they've used. I know what you don't like about Ferrer's and Simon's tennis, I think, though I find them different, and the one I like less is Simon's. But it would be wrong to put Nadal's tennis simply just in a group with them and believe, then, that that explains why you don't like his tennis, wouldn't it? Their careers are vastly inferior. So if you're going to explain what you dislike about his tennis, then it's going to need more nuance than that, IMO. And frankly, convince me that it's not just because he beat Federer early and often.

Obviously, Nadal fans find his brand of tennis to be thrilling. But I'm waiting for a good argument from the opposition that explains why Nadal's tennis, while effective, is also so abhorrent as to induce the gag reflex, if if weren't for him beating the top rivals. Just explaining that would be helpful.

 

[DarthFed]

^ If you don't enjoy the way he hits his forehand you probably aren't going to enjoy his game. That forehand spin and great movement/retrieving is HIS game. And there are plenty of other reasons I don't like the guy that don't have to do with him beating Federer.

It's amusing how much offense you take to someone not liking your boy. Should we grill you about the reasons you don't like Federer or Djokovic and then sound outraged at them?

 

[Moxie]

^ If you don't enjoy the way he hits his forehand you probably aren't going to enjoy his game. That forehand spin and great movement/retrieving is HIS game. And there are plenty of other reasons I don't like the guy that don't have to do with him beating Federer.

It's amusing how much offense you take to someone not liking your boy. Should we grill you about the reasons you don't like Federer or Djokovic and then sound outraged at them?

So not liking his forehand is why you have such a violent reaction against Nadal. (And let me not overplay it here. You have stated on this thread you have not ever and would never root for him, amongst other things you've said against him on other threads.) Even though it's rated as one of the great forehands in the game?

As to your above about dislike and outrage: I don't suppose it has escaped your notice how much vitriol is directed towards Nadal, and you are not the least of the flingers. It's not that offense is taken. It's really confusion. And you haven't illuminated. I was asking for an explanation why, if it wasn't for his record against Roger (and Nole,) which at least IHaychew owns up to. All you've got is his forehand. Doesn't seem worth the bile, if that's all it is.

 

[britbox]

^That's rather presumptious. I don't like Nadal... and I don't like Gilles Simon either.... or David Ferrer, and it's not only about results for a lot of people.

Perhaps it is presumptuous. But I've never had anyone explain as well why they dislike Nadal's tennis as IHaychew, amongst those who find it just "ugly", and whatever all words they've used. I know what you don't like about Ferrer's and Simon's tennis, I think, though I find them different, and the one I like less is Simon's. But it would be wrong to put Nadal's tennis simply just in a group with them and believe, then, that that explains why you don't like his tennis, wouldn't it? Their careers are vastly inferior. So if you're going to explain what you dislike about his tennis, then it's going to need more nuance than that, IMO. And frankly, convince me that it's not just because he beat Federer early and often.

Obviously, Nadal fans find his brand of tennis to be thrilling. But I'm waiting for a good argument from the opposition that explains why Nadal's tennis, while effective, is also so abhorrent as to induce the gag reflex, if if weren't for him beating the top rivals. Just explaining that would be helpful.

I think you're overreacting to one person's opinion and bunching people together. I don't share I.Haychew's opinion. I do watch Nadal and respect his game... but I don't like his style or his persona.

Keep insisting that everyone who doesn't share your enthusiasm for Rafa only dislike him because he beats Federer if it makes you feel better. Personally, I was much more of a Safin fan than a Fed fan when Nadal came onto the scene and I believe I.Haychew is a Youhzny fan, Cali, a Nalbandian fan etc... It's not just about results.

 

[Moxie]

I'm with DarthFed...I have never rooted phor, and will never root phor, Nadal. I despise him so much that I rephuse to watch him play live, unless it's a match against Djokovic. I will watch re-runs of matches that he's lost, but those are phew and phar between.

Wow, who knew? So you refuse to watch a guy who has won 14 Majors and more MS than anyone? He's that good, and so good, in "phact", that his losses are "phew and phar between," but you won't even watch him play? That's a strong statement, though not an especially impressive one about how much you like tennis. It's 'phascinating' how bitterly the anti-Nadal folks dislike him. Why is that, do you think?

I.H. has always been very clear and consistent in his views toward Rafa. Up to this point you've been pretty consistent in letting it roll off your back. Understandably, with the revelation of this most recent injury every fan is going to be a little tetchy. To challenge Chew's love for the sport is going too far.

Rafa plays the game of tennis like a midfielder plays football; the ability to instantly go from defense to offense is incredible, his footwork is brilliant and his determination is unparalleled. However, to some, watching him play the game the way he does is quite different from the tennis they've always known. Add the repetitive quirks and what some consider questionable on court behavior - the antipathy isn't that remarkable. While you do watch Djokovic play, it's almost(?) always with the hope that he will lose.

He may not watch Ralf play, but I.H. watches and enjoys tennis. There are those who will stop watching when Rafa hangs up his shoes, and many who will watch with less interest. There are also those who will do the same when Fed retires, Novak too. Methinks "Chewy" will still be loving tennis for a long time beyond that.

Sorry I missed this earlier, but it's a good post, and deserves a response. I don't remember Chewy being especially vocal on any of the top guys, so forgive me if I was mistakenly surprised that he was so anti-Nadal. And snarky about his not liking tennis, though I am still surprised about his just refusing to watch a player who is already a legend of the game. (I swear it was more surprise than snark.)

Your explanation of why some don't enjoy Nadal's game is a good effort, but it describes what every Nadal fan can imagine, anyway, (which you yourself have been, so you're not really a good judge of what I'm looking for.) Though, speaking of snark, I'm surprised that you've begun to buy into the myth of "questionable on-court behavior" on Nadal's part. I believe we've demonstrated that all the top guys have committed those various "sins" that are often cited.

I've asked those who demonstrate real animosity towards Nadal to explain it to me. You don't have that, so, while I appreciate the effort, I don't think you can illuminate, beyond what I already know or can imagine. Good try, though. Thanks.

I think it's IHaychew who has been really, brutally honest about it.

 

[Moxie]

^That's rather presumptious. I don't like Nadal... and I don't like Gilles Simon either.... or David Ferrer, and it's not only about results for a lot of people.

Perhaps it is presumptuous. But I've never had anyone explain as well why they dislike Nadal's tennis as IHaychew, amongst those who find it just "ugly", and whatever all words they've used. I know what you don't like about Ferrer's and Simon's tennis, I think, though I find them different, and the one I like less is Simon's. But it would be wrong to put Nadal's tennis simply just in a group with them and believe, then, that that explains why you don't like his tennis, wouldn't it? Their careers are vastly inferior. So if you're going to explain what you dislike about his tennis, then it's going to need more nuance than that, IMO. And frankly, convince me that it's not just because he beat Federer early and often.

Obviously, Nadal fans find his brand of tennis to be thrilling. But I'm waiting for a good argument from the opposition that explains why Nadal's tennis, while effective, is also so abhorrent as to induce the gag reflex, if if weren't for him beating the top rivals. Just explaining that would be helpful.

I think you're overreacting to one person's opinion and bunching people together. I don't share I.Haychew's opinion. I do watch Nadal and respect his game... but I don't like his style or his persona.

Keep insisting that everyone who doesn't share your enthusiasm for Rafa only dislike him because he beats Federer if it makes you feel better. Personally, I was much more of a Safin fan than a Fed fan when Nadal came onto the scene and I believe I.Haychew is a Youhzny fan, Cali, a Nalbandian fan etc... It's not just about results.

Well, I'm not really asking you, then. As I'm not bunching all Fedfans together on this. I'm really asking the ones that have said, like IHaychew, (who did respond,) or Darth, who has spoken even on this thread rather strongly against Nadal, (including saying that he'll be perfectly happy when Nadal quits forever.) And I'd love to hear from Front, who also has vocally expressed his more than small distain for Rafa.

No one has to share my enthusiasm for Rafa, nor have I said that everyone who is a fan of Roger or Novak shares that same strong inclination against Nadal. I AM saying that the feeling in other fan camps doesn't match that level of animus which comes from some…not all…who don't like Nadal. And it can be rather bilious. So I'm asking why. Straightforward question. IHaychew recognized what I was asking, and managed an honest answer. Bonus points to him.

 

[britbox]

I.Haychew gave you the answer you wanted.

 

[nehmeth]

I'm with DarthFed...I have never rooted phor, and will never root phor, Nadal. I despise him so much that I rephuse to watch him play live, unless it's a match against Djokovic. I will watch re-runs of matches that he's lost, but those are phew and phar between.

Wow, who knew? So you refuse to watch a guy who has won 14 Majors and more MS than anyone? He's that good, and so good, in "phact", that his losses are "phew and phar between," but you won't even watch him play? That's a strong statement, though not an especially impressive one about how much you like tennis. It's 'phascinating' how bitterly the anti-Nadal folks dislike him. Why is that, do you think?

I.H. has always been very clear and consistent in his views toward Rafa. Up to this point you've been pretty consistent in letting it roll off your back. Understandably, with the revelation of this most recent injury every fan is going to be a little tetchy. To challenge Chew's love for the sport is going too far.

Rafa plays the game of tennis like a midfielder plays football; the ability to instantly go from defense to offense is incredible, his footwork is brilliant and his determination is unparalleled. However, to some, watching him play the game the way he does is quite different from the tennis they've always known. Add the repetitive quirks and what some consider questionable on court behavior - the antipathy isn't that remarkable. While you do watch Djokovic play, it's almost(?) always with the hope that he will lose.

He may not watch Ralf play, but I.H. watches and enjoys tennis. There are those who will stop watching when Rafa hangs up his shoes, and many who will watch with less interest. There are also those who will do the same when Fed retires, Novak too. Methinks "Chewy" will still be loving tennis for a long time beyond that.

Sorry I missed this earlier, but it's a good post, and deserves a response. I don't remember Chewy being especially vocal on any of the top guys, so forgive me if I was mistakenly surprised that he was so anti-Nadal. And snarky about his not liking tennis, though I am still surprised about his just refusing to watch a player who is already a legend of the game. (I swear it was more surprise than snark.)

Your explanation of why some don't enjoy Nadal's game is a good effort, but it describes what every Nadal fan can imagine, anyway, (which you yourself have been, so you're not really a good judge of what I'm looking for.) Though, speaking of snark, I'm surprised that you've begun to buy into the myth of "questionable on-court behavior" on Nadal's part. I believe we've demonstrated that all the top guys have committed those various "sins" that are often cited.

I've asked those who demonstrate real animosity towards Nadal to explain it to me. You don't have that, so, while I appreciate the effort, I don't think you can illuminate, beyond what I already know or can imagine. Good try, though. Thanks.

I don't know if it's age, or selective memory, or ADD or what, but I.H. has always been quite open and consistent in his opinion of Nadal. And you have engaged him nicely and with humor more than a few times in the past - I've read them. My post was not about Nadal but your cutting remark questioning a long time member of this board's love for the sport, because of his dislike for your guy.

Rafa's quirks over time have become even more compulsive and numerous, that's a fact not snark. And what you call the "myth" of questionable behavior - even his fans have found some of his actions to be so. That was not snark at all.

The snark was my comment about you watching Djokovic, (another great who's made a niche for himself between two of the greatest players of all time), and almost(?) always rooting for the other guy - whomever it was. You must have missed that because... it is actually fact? :snigger.

So I guess it was either a very poor post, or you just missed my points.