Roger's New Shot

[GameSetAndMath]

Very nice shot by Federer. It reminds me a bit of this player(Monica Niculescu)

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=serena%20williams%20vs%20monica%20niculescu%202015&qs=RI&form=QBVR&pq=monica%20niculescu%20vs%20serena%20williams&sc=1-35&sp=1&sk=#view=detail&mid=0DC3EC13A601CAEC123D0DC3EC13A601CAEC123D

but a Roger's shot is a bit more aggressive. I have seen this shot hit very consistent by a mid 50's guy who coaches and plays in the Chicagoland area. This guy routinely beats late teen to mid 20's players who play on the challenger tour.

These are two totally different things. Monica uses a "forehand slice" shot (and that too on almost every forehand). Almost no player (ATP or WTA) plays "forehand slice shot" and so it looks very different. Roger's charging to service line to take the ball early as a half volley is very different. In particular, he does not do a forehand slice. He does a half-volley with a deep return and charges to the net.

p.s. I know you said it "reminds" and not identical. But, to me they are very dissimilar.

 

[Haelfix]

It's risky, but it's something he needed to do.

Let's face it, Federer is about on par or even better than Novak/Rafa/Murray in just about every other major facet of the game other than return of second serve, whether it's hold percentage, ro1st serve, tb win percentage etc. But he is so inferior to their numbers in that one category that it has prevented him from winning anything other than 1 major in five years.

Even relative to the rest of the tour, you are looking at a ro2ndserve value that might not even be in the top 100 on tour which is crazy given how elite his baseline game is and how good his D still is. Therefore it's all about his historically weak bh return, which has gotten worse and worse recently.

So even if this strategy is poor for the rest of the tour in terms of percentages, it immensely helps Federer given his great weakness.

I also think there might only be a few people who can even hit a half volley like that. Seriously it's an almost impossible shot to hit for mere mortals.

Now. It's clear that there are a lot of counters to this, and I'm sure it's just temporary before people are coached up on the counter. But I'm glad that they are working on this aspect of his game. I actually thought for years that Federer should take a few steps back and really crank his return instead of the advanced blockback or slice that gets him in so much trouble.

 

[brokenshoelace]

You're kidding? I'm starting to think Roger isn't half as smart as I thought! He had the most aggressive coaches in the history of the game and he's just coming to realize this is what he needs to do? What an idiot! And I thought Rafa and Andy were mentally deficient; mon DIEU! :cover uzzled :nono :angel: :dodgy:

If you genuinely thought Nadal and Murray, who probably have the highest tennis IQ out of anyone on tour, are mentally deficient (and that's not even touching on the absurd Federer comments you just made), then I'd say people with glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

How smart is it to get into 3+ hour battles with players not even ranked in the top 20 in early rounds? You have to be mentally deficient if you think that's a smart way to go just because they won! I think I heard Murray had been out on court 6 hours longer than Roger in Cinn.; WHY? It's from playing that stupid counter-punching crap that allows player to take him to the limit; sometimes needing to save match points! Same with Rafa who scurries around like a squirrel making great "gets" and producing incredible passing shots, but still hanging back near the backstop allowing inferior players to run him to death! Again, is that a smart tactic as you get older and more broken down? (no pun intended) :cover uzzled :nono :angel: :dodgy: - Get a grip! I know what I'm talking about! :ras:

I won't bother with the inane stuff about time spent on court, but I find it hilarious how you keep mentioning "that counter-punching crap" in every other post, yet swoon every time Bjorn Borg is mentioned. Have you actually seen him play?

 

[Fiero425]

If you genuinely thought Nadal and Murray, who probably have the highest tennis IQ out of anyone on tour, are mentally deficient (and that's not even touching on the absurd Federer comments you just made), then I'd say people with glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

How smart is it to get into 3+ hour battles with players not even ranked in the top 20 in early rounds? You have to be mentally deficient if you think that's a smart way to go just because they won! I think I heard Murray had been out on court 6 hours longer than Roger in Cinn.; WHY? It's from playing that stupid counter-punching crap that allows player to take him to the limit; sometimes needing to save match points! Same with Rafa who scurries around like a squirrel making great "gets" and producing incredible passing shots, but still hanging back near the backstop allowing inferior players to run him to death! Again, is that a smart tactic as you get older and more broken down? (no pun intended) :cover uzzled :nono :angel: :dodgy: - Get a grip! I know what I'm talking about! :ras:

I won't bother with the inane stuff about time spent on court, but I find it hilarious how you keep mentioning "that counter-punching crap" in every other post, yet swoon every time Bjorn Borg is mentioned. Have you actually seen him play?

I'm not being a hypocrite; believe me! When Borg would go 5 sets against another baseliner like Orantes and Vilas at the FO finals of '74 & '75 respectively, I left to go play myself! When he was going against an aggressive net rusher, it was a novelty at the time to have that dynamic since most served and volleyed! The baseline phenomenon didn't really occur until Borg, Vilas, Connors, and Evert for the ladies! Most others had a more versatile game and S & V! It was interesting then, but not now! It's routine to have 20-30 stroke rallies with the ball traveling well over a 100 miles an hour! There's nothing interesting about that; esp. those interminable finals at the '11 USO and '12 AO! Sets were going well over an hour! I'm still recovering from watching '12 AO with all the toweling off, scratching their junk, bouncing the ball 20 times, and questioning call after call for 6 hours! Borg never got into those kinds of battles later in his career and none of the players stalled as much; only toweling off at breaks in the chair, not between every point! I only get frustrated with Nadal and Murray because they allow these wars of attrition when they could be doing so much more to get off the court in less than 2 hours! Nole only bothers me when he can be serving for a match and all of a sudden allow a player to break him; maybe for the 1st time! Hell, I think he had 2 chances last year at Wimbledon against Federer in the 4th, needing to win in 5! :cover uzzled :nono :angel: :dodgy:

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

NY Times article about the shot

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/02/sports/tennis/roger-federer-an-old-hand-with-a-new-move-keeps-everyone-guessing.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=second-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

 

[GameSetAndMath]

The shot now has a name. It is called SABR (Sneak Attack By Roger).
I did not watch Fed's opening match at NY. But, I heard that it failed more often than succeeded today.

 

[Fiero425]

The shot now has a name. It is called SABR (Sneak Attack By Roger).
I did not watch Fed's opening match at NY. But, I heard that it failed more often than succeeded today.

It doesn't matter how often it works, but "when!" This takes me back to Boris Becker in the mid 80's going for broke on service returns against McEnroe! He missed hitting the mark again and again until he had match point and he dusted the line for his first win over John! I think it's worth doing just to keep the points short and sweet! Players are dropping like flies due to the heat and humidity! Federer can not afford to get into long 4 and 5 set battles at his age in those conditions! :nono :angel: :dodgy:

 

[Johnsteinbeck]

The shot now has a name. It is called SABR (Sneak Attack By Roger).
I did not watch Fed's opening match at NY. But, I heard that it failed more often than succeeded today.

It doesn't matter how often it works, but "when!" This takes me back to Boris Becker in the mid 80's going for broke on service returns against McEnroe! He missed hitting the mark again and again until he had match point and he dusted the line for his first win over John! I think it's worth doing just to keep the points short and sweet! Players are dropping like flies due to the heat and humidity! Federer can not afford to get into long 4 and 5 set battles at his age in those conditions! :nono :angel: :dodgy:

agreed. 1 hour 17 minutes against Leo, and with very short points, that's worth a million just in itself. so Fed could really afford doing some throwaway attacks at 40-15 or something.

and really, it's never just about the quote of success on the shot itself, but about how he impacts the overall shift. Mayer DF'd 7 times, and you'd have to assume that least a couple of those are somewhat related to Fed's hyper-aggressive return tactic. and since you usually don't come close to making more than half of the points on an opponent's serve anyway, 50% isn't even the bar you're shooting for.

i really hope (and think) he keeps this thing in the mix. yes, people will get used to it - but that doesn't stop it from being effective (it's not like the topspin fh to the 1h bh needed to be surprising to be effective). keep charging like that, and those points remain short, and the pressure high. and like Fiero said - people might pass him at 15 all, but in the tie break, the pressure is on them to do it. and there's really no simple solution to countering this shot. the key is that it hits you while you're basically still finishing your service motion (and that's something no reasonable player would tinker with, right, Todd?)... the server can preemptively backpedal a little more right after the serve - not a comfortable thing to be doing regularly, and something that will take oomph out of the server's second shot in any case.

 

[Kirijax]

Nice collection of Federer's SABR

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGiooBma8J0[/video]

 

[isabelle]

sabr is dead, Nole killed it

 

[GameSetAndMath]

sabr is dead, Nole killed it

That is just not true.

1. In Cincy, Fed won a point at a key moment in tb against Novak using SABR.

2. At USO, even though Fed lost the match, Fed won 50% or more of his SABR attempts against Novak.

SABR is alive and well.

 

[Fiero425]

sabr is dead, Nole killed it

That is just not true.

1. In Cincy, Fed won a point at a key moment in TB against Novak using SABR.

2. At USO, even though Fed lost the match, Fed won 50% or more of his SABR attempts against Novak.

SABR is alive and well.

May be, but Nole wounded it a bit! Everyone believes he hasn't played well in months really, but he still was able to get to the final and dispatch Federer with only a modicum of effort! Roger has to continue employing the tactic periodically or he'll have no chance so it's a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario! :angel: :dodgy: