"Rafael Nadal: The Secrets of A Giant"

[Moxie]

That might have some merit when you're talking 30+ shots rallies but not a routine 3-5 shot one. Those are indeed inexplicable and you know it.

Actually, please don't tell me that "I know it" when what you're saying is an absolute fallacy. No, I don't know it.

Players, especially earlier in Nadal's career when he would cover every inch of the court, knew how quick he was and how well he defended, so they overhit, whether it was a 3-5 shot rally or longer. I mean, it's such an obvious point I'm surprised you don't get it.

Say I hit a serve out wide, Nadal gets it to it, I know how quick he is, so even when I'm going to play V tennis (ie hit to the open side of the court) I feel like I have to hit it closer to the line because I know he can get to it and pass me given how quick he is. The hell does that have anything to do with 30 point rallies? He made them go for more because he would get so many balls back in play, so they started going for more in general, not just during longer rallies.

Now wonder you're at a loss to explain all those Fedal matches.

I can come up with plenty of explanations to the Fedal matches but I won't bother. Nadal hasn't been lightning fast for quite a while now so that's no longer the reason Fed is walloping easy forehands into the net. He actually does it against everyone these days.

Yeah, don't bother. Maybe you'll go for it on the Fedal thread. Honestly, Front, you're proving my point about fanatics: you're refusing to see that Nadal's game has applied pressure on opponents and caused them to go for too much, thus producing what seem like uncharacteristic errors. And, as Broken illustrated, there is no reason to say that applies only to long rallies. We're not talking about the recent past with regards to Federer, but 23 losses cannot be explained away by "bad days," or mono, or whatever other defense you had in mind. Nadal's game had a negative effect on Federer's, and Roger never made a good adjustment to counter it.

 

[Moxie]

Say I hit a serve out wide, Nadal gets it to it, I know how quick he is, so even when I'm going to play V tennis (ie hit to the open side of the court) I feel like I have to hit it closer to the line because I know he can get to it and pass me given how quick he is. The hell does that have anything to do with 30 point rallies? He made them go for more because he would get so many balls back in play, so they started going for more in general, not just during longer rallies.

This is the effect Novak has on players these days, IMO, including Nadal:


I realize that's an atypical rally, but some of the shots Djokovic gets back are stunning, and some of the lines Rafa hits to try to stop this are also incredible.

You're absolutely right. This is why many were saying in 2011 that Nole was "out-Rafaing Rafa." When they have played since, and including the AO 2012, they have forced uncharacteristic errors on each other. (The forehand miss by Rafa in the 5th at that AO, the net touch by Novak at RG '13 are examples of being pressed and rushed.) What remains to be seen this year is if Nadal can find the form to continue to pressure Djokovic, because surely the opposite will be true.

 

[Fiero425]

Say I hit a serve out wide, Nadal gets it to it, I know how quick he is, so even when I'm going to play V tennis (ie hit to the open side of the court) I feel like I have to hit it closer to the line because I know he can get to it and pass me given how quick he is. The hell does that have anything to do with 30 point rallies? He made them go for more because he would get so many balls back in play, so they started going for more in general, not just during longer rallies.

This is the effect Novak has on players these days, IMO, including Nadal:


I realize that's an atypical rally, but some of the shots Djokovic gets back are stunning, and some of the lines Rafa hits to try to stop this are also incredible.

You're absolutely right. This is why many were saying in 2011 that Nole was "out-Rafaing Rafa." When they have played since, and including the AO 2012, they have forced uncharacteristic errors on each other. (The forehand miss by Rafa in the 5th at that AO, the net touch by Novak at RG '13 are examples of being pressed and rushed.) What remains to be seen this year is if Nadal can find the form to continue to pressure Djokovic, because surely the opposite will be true.

I think it was a backhand dtl missed; a truck could have driven through that space left open by Nole if you're talking about '12 AO! Those drop shots and drop volleys get him into so much trouble against Rafa! Nadal is jerked around a little, but for the most part Nole gets passed! :cover :nono :angel: :dodgy:

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Say I hit a serve out wide, Nadal gets it to it, I know how quick he is, so even when I'm going to play V tennis (ie hit to the open side of the court) I feel like I have to hit it closer to the line because I know he can get to it and pass me given how quick he is. The hell does that have anything to do with 30 point rallies? He made them go for more because he would get so many balls back in play, so they started going for more in general, not just during longer rallies.

This is the effect Novak has on players these days, IMO, including Nadal:


I realize that's an atypical rally, but some of the shots Djokovic gets back are stunning, and some of the lines Rafa hits to try to stop this are also incredible.

You're absolutely right. This is why many were saying in 2011 that Nole was "out-Rafaing Rafa." When they have played since, and including the AO 2012, they have forced uncharacteristic errors on each other. (The forehand miss by Rafa in the 5th at that AO, the net touch by Novak at RG '13 are examples of being pressed and rushed.) What remains to be seen this year is if Nadal can find the form to continue to pressure Djokovic, because surely the opposite will be true.

First he has to find the form to face Novak.

 

[Moxie]

This is the effect Novak has on players these days, IMO, including Nadal:


I realize that's an atypical rally, but some of the shots Djokovic gets back are stunning, and some of the lines Rafa hits to try to stop this are also incredible.

You're absolutely right. This is why many were saying in 2011 that Nole was "out-Rafaing Rafa." When they have played since, and including the AO 2012, they have forced uncharacteristic errors on each other. (The forehand miss by Rafa in the 5th at that AO, the net touch by Novak at RG '13 are examples of being pressed and rushed.) What remains to be seen this year is if Nadal can find the form to continue to pressure Djokovic, because surely the opposite will be true.

First he has to find the form to face Novak.

I believe that's what I said. Are you going to follow me around and just repeat my points? :lolz: It might be more interesting if you continued on the idea, rather than just restating it. :heart:

 

[GameSetAndMath]

You're absolutely right. This is why many were saying in 2011 that Nole was "out-Rafaing Rafa." When they have played since, and including the AO 2012, they have forced uncharacteristic errors on each other. (The forehand miss by Rafa in the 5th at that AO, the net touch by Novak at RG '13 are examples of being pressed and rushed.) What remains to be seen this year is if Nadal can find the form to continue to pressure Djokovic, because surely the opposite will be true.

First he has to find the form to face Novak.

I believe that's what I said. Are you going to follow me around and just repeat my points? :lolz: It might be more interesting if you continued on the idea, rather than just restating it. :heart:

You missed my point. You are talking about pressuring Novak in a match. What I am saying is that first of all he should find a form that will enable him to see Novak across the net.

 

[tented]

First he has to find the form to face Novak.

I believe that's what I said. Are you going to follow me around and just repeat my points? :lolz: It might be more interesting if you continued on the idea, rather than just restating it. :heart:

You missed my point. You are talking about pressuring Novak in a match. What I am saying is that first of all he should find a form that will enable him to see Novak across the net.

They just played a couple of weeks ago.

 

[brokenshoelace]

First he has to find the form to face Novak.

I believe that's what I said. Are you going to follow me around and just repeat my points? :lolz: It might be more interesting if you continued on the idea, rather than just restating it. :heart:

You missed my point. You are talking about pressuring Novak in a match. What I am saying is that first of all he should find a form that will enable him to see Novak across the net.

At the risk of a major deja-vu from last year, I'll reiterate what I was basically responding with at this time a year ago: Nobody's beating Nadal at Roland Garros other than Djokovic. There will be no "unknown player"

 

[Denis]

I believe that's what I said. Are you going to follow me around and just repeat my points? :lolz: It might be more interesting if you continued on the idea, rather than just restating it. :heart:

You missed my point. You are talking about pressuring Novak in a match. What I am saying is that first of all he should find a form that will enable him to see Novak across the net.

At the risk of a major deja-vu from last year, I'll reiterate what I was basically responding with at this time a year ago: Nobody's beating Nadal at Roland Garros other than Djokovic. There will be no "unknown player"

Now I'll take your word for it more than anyone else, but did you see rafa play these past months. He looked quite vulnerable.

 

[brokenshoelace]

You missed my point. You are talking about pressuring Novak in a match. What I am saying is that first of all he should find a form that will enable him to see Novak across the net.

At the risk of a major deja-vu from last year, I'll reiterate what I was basically responding with at this time a year ago: Nobody's beating Nadal at Roland Garros other than Djokovic. There will be no "unknown player"

Now I'll take your word for it more than anyone else, but did you see rafa play these past months. He looked quite vulnerable.

He looked putrid. I think he's past his prime, considerably too. I still don't see anyone other than Novak beating him in a clay court best of 5 match. He wasn't looking much better at this point last year either.