Rafa vs. Novak

[brokenshoelace]

I am going against the general thinking and guessing that neither will make the finals.

2 months of propaganda come down to this. Let's hope you're right after calling me out on my Nadal-Wawrinka prediction (in a match that never happened) because after shoving the "unnamed player" down our throats in virtually every other post, and now this, I'm going to have a field day...

Stop exaggerating things. There is no propaganda here, much less for 2 months.
The "Early Talk on Rolland Garros" thread was started about 10 days ago and somewhere
in the middle of that thread, the notion of "unnamed player" originated.

I have made so many other posts and on so many other things as well. To say that
"unnamed player" is appearing in every other post is far fetched. May be it appears
to you that way as it is bothering you too much and causing you sleepless nights.
May be, you should try counting sheep (instead of thinking about goat).

Finally, nobody can "shove" anything to you. You were not born yesterday.
You can always ignore my posts.

Before you can have a field day based on my predictions, post your predictions
if you have the courage. Oh, I see, you can never go wrong if you don't make any
predictions. I forgot that. Sorry, I am an idiot.

At least you didn't take my post literally. Yes, I totally meant that you're actually embarking on a propaganda campaign. In fact, I think you have your own news team covering. I also totally meant that you're literally discussing this "unnamed player" thing in every post (that's why I said "virtually"...sigh). As in, every single post, even when it's unrelated. I totally meant that.

My prediction: Nadal will play Djokovic in the Roland Garros final. As far as who wins the match, right now I'm leaning towards Djokovic but I might change my mind based on their forms throughout the tournament. Don't worry though, I vow to make an "official" prediction before that match so you can call me out on it if I'm wrong.

Good enough for you?

 

[brokenshoelace]

PS: Where did I ever not make a prediction? I just don't participate in the slam challenges. But I make a prediction before pretty much every meaningful match. It's right there in the threads.

 

[the AntiPusher]

On average, Novak is the better player now and for the foreseeable future.

No, This is not really the truth. Are you saying the past few times prior to late last Fall Rafa only was able to win if Novak wasn't on his game , I don't buy it. On the flip side, it's more about how Rafa counters Novak"s aggressively taking control of the center of the court. Novak has showed the ATP that he will not allow himself to get into those ridiculously long rallies with Rafa by taking control of the rallies with his cc bh and the knockout punch, his dtl bh.This is where Rafa doesn't counters properly, Rafa has got to continue establishing his dtl fh and keep moving forward. I think Moxie mentioned it earlier, it's been 6-5 and Rafa has won the past three grand slam encounters. Let's give Novak credit, he has taken his game and Rafa's to an advanced level where I continue to say, when all things are true, it will always come back and down to these two.This Ain't over BS, just reference last Summer's North America's hard court swing , it was totally dominated by Nadal regardless how Novak was playing, that wasn't Luck.

 

[brokenshoelace]

No, This is not really the truth. Are you saying the past few times prior to late last Fall Rafa only was able to win if Novak wasn't on his game , I don't buy it.

Where did I ever imply that Novak wasn't on his game? I said: "Novak is the better player NOW and will be for the foreseeable future."

I don't have to explain what "now" means, do I?

On the flip side, it's more about how Rafa counters Novak"s aggressively taking control of the center of the court. Novak has showed the ATP that he will not allow himself to get into those ridiculously long rallies with Rafa by taking control of the rallies with his cc bh and the knockout punch, his dtl bh.This is where Rafa doesn't counters properly, Rafa has got to continue establishing his dtl fh and keep moving forward. I think Moxie mentioned it earlier, it's been 6-5 and Rafa has won the past three grand slam encounters. Let's give Novak credit, he has taken his game and Rafa's to an advanced level where I continue to say, when all things are true, it will always come back and down to these two.This Ain't over BS, just reference last Summer's North America's hard court swing , it was totally dominated by Nadal regardless how Novak was playing, that wasn't Luck.

I fail to see where I mentioned that Nadal will never beat Novak again, or that he'll lose to him every time moving forward.

Also, "luck"? Really? Again, where did I ever imply that?

I said on average, as in, on a match-to-match basis, Novak is a better player now, and I think he will be moving forward as Nadal will surely start to decline (something that has already happened, as evidenced by his movement).

I'm sure Rafa will beat Novak again, and a in a significant match too. It wouldn't surprise me if it happens in two weeks. However, it wouldn't negate the general point one bit.

 

[the AntiPusher]

No, This is not really the truth. Are you saying the past few times prior to late last Fall Rafa only was able to win if Novak wasn't on his game , I don't buy it.

Where did I ever imply that Novak wasn't on his game? I said: "Novak is the better player NOW and will be for the foreseeable future."

I don't have to explain what "now" means, do I?

On the flip side, it's more about how Rafa counters Novak"s aggressively taking control of the center of the court. Novak has showed the ATP that he will not allow himself to get into those ridiculously long rallies with Rafa by taking ctvontrol of the rallies with his cc bh and the knockout punch, his dtl bh.This is where Rafa doesn't counters properly, Rafa has got to continue establishing his dtl fh and keep moving forward. I think Moxie mentioned it earlier, it's been 6-5 and Rafa has won the past three grand slam encounters. Let's give Novak credit, he has taken his game and Rafa's to an advanced level where I continue to say, when all things are true, it will always come back and down to these two.This Ain't over BS, just reference last Summer's North America's hard court swing , it was totally dominated by Nadal regardless how Novak was playing, that wasn't Luck.

I fail to see where I mentioned that Nadal will never beat Novak again, or that he'll lose to him every time moving forward.

Also, "luck"? Really? Again, where did I ever imply that?

I said on average, as in, on a match-to-match basis, Novak is a better player now, and I think he will be moving forward as Nadal will surely start to decline (something that has already happened, as evidenced by his movement).

I'm sure Rafa will beat Novak again, and a in a significant match too. It wouldn't surprise me if it happens in two weeks. However, it wouldn't negate the general point one bit.

BS, I apologize but your use of the word average implied(to me) that there will take some unforeseen circumstances for Rafa to win. It comes down to the big points, reference AO 2011 final and last year RG semi finals. The current H2h looks a bit jaded which I truly think its something going on with Rafael's confidence just like the majority if 2013,there was something similar going on with Djoker's imo.

 

[brokenshoelace]

No, This is not really the truth. Are you saying the past few times prior to late last Fall Rafa only was able to win if Novak wasn't on his game , I don't buy it.

Where did I ever imply that Novak wasn't on his game? I said: "Novak is the better player NOW and will be for the foreseeable future."

I don't have to explain what "now" means, do I?

On the flip side, it's more about how Rafa counters Novak"s aggressively taking control of the center of the court. Novak has showed the ATP that he will not allow himself to get into those ridiculously long rallies with Rafa by taking ctvontrol of the rallies with his cc bh and the knockout punch, his dtl bh.This is where Rafa doesn't counters properly, Rafa has got to continue establishing his dtl fh and keep moving forward. I think Moxie mentioned it earlier, it's been 6-5 and Rafa has won the past three grand slam encounters. Let's give Novak credit, he has taken his game and Rafa's to an advanced level where I continue to say, when all things are true, it will always come back and down to these two.This Ain't over BS, just reference last Summer's North America's hard court swing , it was totally dominated by Nadal regardless how Novak was playing, that wasn't Luck.

I fail to see where I mentioned that Nadal will never beat Novak again, or that he'll lose to him every time moving forward.

Also, "luck"? Really? Again, where did I ever imply that?

I said on average, as in, on a match-to-match basis, Novak is a better player now, and I think he will be moving forward as Nadal will surely start to decline (something that has already happened, as evidenced by his movement).

I'm sure Rafa will beat Novak again, and a in a significant match too. It wouldn't surprise me if it happens in two weeks. However, it wouldn't negate the general point one bit.

BS, I apologize but your use of the word average implied(to me) that there will take some unforeseen circumstances for Rafa to win. It comes down to the big points, reference AO 2011 final and last year RG semi finals. The current H2h looks a bit jaded which I truly think its something going on with Rafael's confidence just like the majority if 2013,there was something similar going on with Djoker's imo.

When I'm talking about their levels on average, I'm not strictly looking at the matches they play against one another, which can always go either way. I'm talking about their tennis, in general, match in, match out.

Because if we're strictly looking at their H2H, then there are a lot of factors swaying it one way then the other such as confidence, momentum, form, etc...

 

[El Dude]

It's the #2 of option of provocative... and I trust that you mean to engender civil discourse. Sometimes, "stirring the pot" can also have other responses. To this point in their careers, Novak hasn't achieved the level of success that Ralf (or Roger) have. So a Djokovic fan trying to say otherwise wouldn't have a leg to stand on. To suggest that he's the better player now? Well that would be undermining the resiliency of Nadal, who after 2011 eventually found a way to gain the upper hand again. I won't ever count Ralf out until he hangs up his sneakers.

I hear you and very much agree on all accounts. The question, as you know, isn't who has had the better career because Rafa still holds the edge by a substantial margin, but who is the better player now.

I tend to agree with Broken that Novak has the edge on a day-in, day-out basis and is overall the greater player now, and perhaps since 2011--except for about two-thirds of 2013. But in terms of absolute peak level, Rafa is unbeatable and the best the game has ever seen.

 

[nehmeth]

But in terms of absolute peak level, Rafa is unbeatable and the best the game has ever seen.

Yes. On clay, I completely agree. I believe that's what you meant?

 

[DarthFed]

It's the #2 of option of provocative... and I trust that you mean to engender civil discourse. Sometimes, "stirring the pot" can also have other responses. To this point in their careers, Novak hasn't achieved the level of success that Ralf (or Roger) have. So a Djokovic fan trying to say otherwise wouldn't have a leg to stand on. To suggest that he's the better player now? Well that would be undermining the resiliency of Nadal, who after 2011 eventually found a way to gain the upper hand again. I won't ever count Ralf out until he hangs up his sneakers.

I hear you and very much agree on all accounts. The question, as you know, isn't who has had the better career because Rafa still holds the edge by a substantial margin, but who is the better player now.

I tend to agree with Broken that Novak has the edge on a day-in, day-out basis and is overall the greater player now, and perhaps since 2011--except for about two-thirds of 2013. But in terms of absolute peak level, Rafa is unbeatable and the best the game has ever seen.

Completely disagree but to each their own. Rafa is the most consistent and mentally tough player there's been but his best level off of clay isn't above Roger or Pete's for starters. If Djokovic plays his best vs. Rafa this means he is playing clean and without the mental lapses and we know he usually has Rafa in a yo-yo as that is the nature of the matchup. That spin doesn't kill Novak, especially when he is playing solid, and what else is Rafa going to hurt him with exactly?

 

[tented]

It's the #2 of option of provocative... and I trust that you mean to engender civil discourse. Sometimes, "stirring the pot" can also have other responses. To this point in their careers, Novak hasn't achieved the level of success that Ralf (or Roger) have. So a Djokovic fan trying to say otherwise wouldn't have a leg to stand on. To suggest that he's the better player now? Well that would be undermining the resiliency of Nadal, who after 2011 eventually found a way to gain the upper hand again. I won't ever count Ralf out until he hangs up his sneakers.

I hear you and very much agree on all accounts. The question, as you know, isn't who has had the better career because Rafa still holds the edge by a substantial margin, but who is the better player now.

I tend to agree with Broken that Novak has the edge on a day-in, day-out basis and is overall the greater player now, and perhaps since 2011--except for about two-thirds of 2013. But in terms of absolute peak level, Rafa is unbeatable and the best the game has ever seen.

Completely disagree but to each their own. Rafa is the most consistent and mentally tough player there's been but his best level off of clay isn't above Roger or Pete's for starters. If Djokovic plays his best vs. Rafa this means he is playing clean and without the mental lapses and we know he usually has Rafa in a yo-yo as that is the nature of the matchup. That spin doesn't kill Novak, especially when he is playing solid, and what else is Rafa going to hurt him with exactly?

Agree. Plus, Novak has a two-handed BH, so Rafa can't hurt him with that, either, like he notoriously does with Roger.

 

[Federberg]

Hmmm... haven't read thru the thread El Dude, but it's a provocative question. You have to say Rafa is the better player.. you have to look at the big picture. But if you're asking about who is likely to win.. or to put it another way.. who is the form player now and going forward, then it's easy to see why Nole would be backed. But even that isn't clear... these guys seem to have streaks against each other. It's clear that Nole is dominant right now, but can we really say Rafa won't find his mojo again? For me the more interesting question is.. will Nole have another period of a mental let down? That seems to be when Rafa regains the ascendancy. That for me is one of the key differences with Nole vs Rafa. Until this year I would find it hard to say that Rafa has ever had a mental let down. This year is interesting though.. I hesitate to label what he's going through now as that. It'll be easier to frame it once we have more data.. probably have to wait until after Flushing to assess where Rafa is. But if you want to know who I think will win a final at RG this year if the two face off.. then on current form (and streak) I have to go with Nole

 

[Ricardo]

It's the #2 of option of provocative... and I trust that you mean to engender civil discourse. Sometimes, "stirring the pot" can also have other responses. To this point in their careers, Novak hasn't achieved the level of success that Ralf (or Roger) have. So a Djokovic fan trying to say otherwise wouldn't have a leg to stand on. To suggest that he's the better player now? Well that would be undermining the resiliency of Nadal, who after 2011 eventually found a way to gain the upper hand again. I won't ever count Ralf out until he hangs up his sneakers.

I hear you and very much agree on all accounts. The question, as you know, isn't who has had the better career because Rafa still holds the edge by a substantial margin, but who is the better player now.

I tend to agree with Broken that Novak has the edge on a day-in, day-out basis and is overall the greater player now, and perhaps since 2011--except for about two-thirds of 2013. But in terms of absolute peak level, Rafa is unbeatable and the best the game has ever seen.

actually you tend to state your own opinion and state it as if its a fact. who knows what absolute peak level is, and whose is the highest that the game has ever seen.

btw you intend to make a thread provocative, no need to dance around it now. you've always liked to be blunt..... who's the best in history, best now, best on clay, who's better than who, who is playing highest level ever, who is greatest.... etc, you know the questions that beginners like to ask.