Professional Tennis Players Association - Opinions?

[tennisville]

I don't see that the tour poorly managed the pandemic. Players who can't play are getting money, from Wimbledon, and for those who couldn't play qualifiers at the USO. I'd be interested for you to illuminate that further.

One thing I think we are not going to agree on is that they didn't wait to make a proper Tennis Players Association with the women involved from the beginning. All the men keep saying that "It's about the ATP" and "the women are governed by the WTA." Why is that a game changer? I've asked you before why this was the moment when men's tennis couldn't stand it one more minute, and they couldn't wait to get the women on board? I don't think there's a good answer to that. And I do think there is an argument that there is a lot going on in the world, and no one gives a hill of beans that tennis needs to restructure itself at this specific moment. Not waiting to involve the women from the beginning has clearly been a bad look, and I think that was a misstep.

I meant that giving lower-ranked players some money originated from the Players Council and it was the public backlash that forced ATP and the other slams (apart from Wimbledon who did it much before) to add money to the player's fund.

I mean that I do agree that women should be a part of this. They should/could have waited but Djokovic mentioned that they had a unique opportunity with so many players gathered within a bubble to discuss and take the initiative.

I am not saying that it was correct to form PTPA right now but it is still in its infancy stage and has caused lots of discussions. I am sure over time it will grow and hopefully women become a part of this. I mean this had to start somewhere right

Here is a link to an article by Jamie Murray (Source) "
“I honestly don’t know. I think this is potentially separate in the fact that it’s more an issue with the ATP rather than maybe tennis as a whole,” Jamie said when asked of his view on his brother Andy’s opinion.

He added, “I think that’s probably more the main fight for a lot of these players. I don’t think it’s necessarily a fight with the whole tennis if that makes sense.

“For all I know, the women might be very happy with how they’re represented on the WTA. I don’t know,” he added"

We just have to wait and see

 

[Moxie]

Haha thanks but not really. I just follow a lot of people on Twitter. I follow many journalists who are not in favour with this to get 1 side of the view. I also follow people who provide alternative views as well. 1 good source to hear pro-PTPA news is actually a twitter user called @CristinaNcl. She is a Djokovic fan but posts lots of articles which shows the view of other players etc. Most of my information is from that

The source for 150 players is actually link. Djokovic also explains the reasoning behind forming the PTPA. Yeah, the conflict of interest is a huge problem in the current structure of the ATP. Tennis Channel and Tennis.com are owned by Sinclair broadcasting group which has television rights to ATP tournaments and Laver Cup (where ATP is part of the board). It is very well known and I think Clarey wrote an article in the NYTimes about it a few months back

I agree that the article cannot be trusted due to the conflict of interest present. A seperation of labor and management as you point out is perfectly fine

Ok, I'm not sure I'm on board with twitter as a source of concrete information, but it's helpful to know where you get yours.

 

[Moxie]

I meant that giving lower-ranked players some money originated from the Players Council and it was the public backlash that forced ATP and the other slams (apart from Wimbledon who did it much before) to add money to the player's fund.

It seems you're saying two different things here: the Player's Council advocated for and actually got more money for lower-ranked players at the Majors. In what way was it a public backlash that got the lower ranked players more money? Do you mean during the pandemic? I'm not clear about this point.

I mean that I do agree that women should be a part of this. They should/could have waited but Djokovic mentioned that they had a unique opportunity with so many players gathered within a bubble to discuss and take the initiative.

I am not saying that it was correct to form PTPA right now but it is still in its infancy stage and has caused lots of discussions. I am sure over time it will grow and hopefully women become a part of this. I mean this had to start somewhere right

Here is a link to an article by Jamie Murray (Source) "
“I honestly don’t know. I think this is potentially separate in the fact that it’s more an issue with the ATP rather than maybe tennis as a whole,” Jamie said when asked of his view on his brother Andy’s opinion.

He added, “I think that’s probably more the main fight for a lot of these players. I don’t think it’s necessarily a fight with the whole tennis if that makes sense.

“For all I know, the women might be very happy with how they’re represented on the WTA. I don’t know,” he added"

We just have to wait and see

I still don't quite get 'why now?' but I am starting to see why the men are so fed up with the organization that they created, and decided to keep the women out of, originally. It is kind of a messed up structure. And upon looking into it, it does also seem that the WTA has a more egalitarian structure. You keep saying, and even Jamie Murray said: "For all I know, the women might be very happy with how they're represented on the the WTA." As well it seems they might be. And why would they join the men in another venture they might yet fuck up?

 

[tennisville]

Ok, I'm not sure I'm on board with twitter as a source of concrete information, but it's helpful to know where you get yours.

Her tweets include articles from various sources as well as media images. Everything I said so far can be backed up

 

[tennisville]

It seems you're saying two different things here: the Player's Council advocated for and actually got more money for lower-ranked players at the Majors. In what way was it a public backlash that got the lower ranked players more money? Do you mean during the pandemic? I'm not clear about this point.

I still don't quite get 'why now?' but I am starting to see why the men are so fed up with the organization that they created, and decided to keep the women out of, originally. It is kind of a messed up structure. And upon looking into it, it does also seem that the WTA has a more egalitarian structure. You keep saying, and even Jamie Murray said: "For all I know, the women might be very happy with how they're represented on the the WTA." As well it seems they might be. And why would they join the men in another venture they might yet fuck up?

So the player council set up a fund where the top players themselves would personally contribute to it for the lower-ranked players during the pandemic. There were wide criticisms on why the major tournaments could not do this because they earned so much money and hardly shared anything with the players. Wimbledon also taking the initiative and adding money to the fund helped as it put pressure on the other majors to follow suit which till then they were quiet about. This happened about a couple of months after the tour lockdown. So I am sure the players would have been unhappy

The men messed up really in how the ATP was managed and created. The women had BJK to make sure that their voice was heard back in the early days. As I mentioned I hope women do become a part of this. Its so complicated since their body is managed more efficiently than the men and it's not straightforward. The men required it and the pandemic gave them the kick start to form. As Djokovic mentioned in that video I shared before, Andy Roddick and Wayne Ferriera had raised this in the early 2000s. This was just waiting to happen and was not something that was decided in a couple of days

 

[Moxie]

So the player council set up a fund where the top players themselves would personally contribute to it for the lower-ranked players during the pandemic. There were wide criticisms on why the major tournaments could not do this because they earned so much money and hardly shared anything with the players. Wimbledon also taking the initiative and adding money to the fund helped as it put pressure on the other majors to follow suit which till then they were quiet about. This happened about a couple of months after the tour lockdown. So I am sure the players would have been unhappy

The men messed up really in how the ATP was managed and created. The women had BJK to make sure that their voice was heard back in the early days. As I mentioned I hope women do become a part of this. Its so complicated since their body is managed more efficiently than the men and it's not straightforward. The men required it and the pandemic gave them the kick start to form. As Djokovic mentioned in that video I shared before, Andy Roddick and Wayne Ferriera had raised this in the early 2000s. This was just waiting to happen and was not something that was decided in a couple of days

I definitely understand that this was brewing, and didn't just pop up in August. I also get that the men seem to feel that they're not well protected by the tournament directors. You have management and labor in the same organization, and management is full of MBAs, while labor, in this case, tends to have left school at 15-16 years old, and the best they can hope for is how clever their managers and agents are, as advisors.

I have been trying to go back to the origin stories of ATP and WTA. It's pretty complicated, in terms of ferreting out how/why they are so different, and how they arrived where they are...and what serves each at this crossroads. You say that the WTA had BJK, as if that were a virtue, but that's a bit of looking at it in retrospect, don't you think? The women were not invited to join the men's professional association, so she basically scrapped and clawed it on her own. Kind of from her car and hotel room, while she was still trying to be on the tour. But while the men got in bed with the tournaments, the women searched out sponsors, which is how we got the Virginia Slims tour. It was a scrap for money, since the tournaments weren't giving anything close to equal pay.

I'm not sure if I have this completely right, but it does seem like this: when the men boycotted Wimbledon, the tournaments conceded, and they joined forces. But they left the women out. Since women were getting pennies on the dollar in this new structure, they sought out their own sponsorship. So their model doesn't really include tournament directors on their board...it's based more on relationship to sponsors. And so it IS actually more of a player's union. Is that how you understand it? Given that, it is the men who feel the need to extricate themselves from a too-close relationship to the tournaments, in order to give themselves a stronger bargaining chip. If this is correct, then the men might actually feel that they'd have an even stronger union if the women, who actually already HAVE a union, joined forces.

That being said...there are men who sit high in this new movement who are worried that they might have to split too much money with women. I guess a lot is yet to be seen where this leads.

 

[tennisville]

I definitely understand that this was brewing, and didn't just pop up in August. I also get that the men seem to feel that they're not well protected by the tournament directors. You have management and labor in the same organization, and management is full of MBAs, while labor, in this case, tends to have left school at 15-16 years old, and the best they can hope for is how clever their managers and agents are, as advisors.

I have been trying to go back to the origin stories of ATP and WTA. It's pretty complicated, in terms of ferreting out how/why they are so different, and how they arrived where they are...and what serves each at this crossroads. You say that the WTA had BJK, as if that were a virtue, but that's a bit of looking at it in retrospect, don't you think? The women were not invited to join the men's professional association, so she basically scrapped and clawed it on her own. Kind of from her car and hotel room, while she was still trying to be on the tour. But while the men got in bed with the tournaments, the women searched out sponsors, which is how we got the Virginia Slims tour. It was a scrap for money, since the tournaments weren't giving anything close to equal pay.

I'm not sure if I have this completely right, but it does seem like this: when the men boycotted Wimbledon, the tournaments conceded, and they joined forces. But they left the women out. Since women were getting pennies on the dollar in this new structure, they sought out their own sponsorship. So their model doesn't really include tournament directors on their board...it's based more on relationship to sponsors. And so it IS actually more of a player's union. Is that how you understand it? Given that, it is the men who feel the need to extricate themselves from a too-close relationship to the tournaments, in order to give themselves a stronger bargaining chip. If this is correct, then the men might actually feel that they'd have an even stronger union if the women, who actually already HAVE a union, joined forces.

That being said...there are men who sit high in this new movement who are worried that they might have to split too much money with women. I guess a lot is yet to be seen where this leads.

What I mean. that the WTA had BJK is that she was such a strong and influential women who knew what was right and stood up for it. There were so many injustices that happened back then and I admire what she did to ger the tour to where it is today. Without BJK, the WTA will be hardly where it is today

Exactly, its not as simple as people mention. Serena Williams and Sloane Stephens are praising the initiative but it needs to be worked out before all forces join in. I hope they do because with women, they will be stronger

 

[tennisville]

This is what the Players Council (who did not stand for election this year but just nominated themselves) did during the middle of a pandemic. More reason why PTPA was formed

And you know the establishment is biased, I have not seen a single journalist (Clarey, Rotenburg) even cover it. Remember all the bad stuff they wrote about PTPA but not a single word about this. Just shows that they are all in the pocket of the establishment

 

[tented]

This is what the Players Council (who did not stand for election this year but just nominated themselves) did during the middle of a pandemic. More reason why PTPA was formed

And you know the establishment is biased, I have not seen a single journalist (Clarey, Rotenburg) even cover it. Remember all the bad stuff they wrote about PTPA but not a single word about this. Just shows that they are all in the pocket of the establishment

I checked his Twitter feed and didn’t see this. Where did you find it?

 

[tennisville]

I checked his Twitter feed and didn’t see this. Where did you find it?

He posted this but later had to delete it. This was a screenshot taken when he had posted it

 

[tented]

He posted this but later had to delete it. This was a screenshot taken when he had posted it

Did you take the screenshot? Or did you find it online?

 

[tennisville]

Did you take the screenshot? Or did you find it online?

I found the screenshot online

This was the first quote which got deleted link and here is the tweet where someone took a screenshot (Pic1)

 

[tented]

I found the screenshot online

This was the first quote which got deleted link and here is the tweet where someone took a screenshot (Pic1)

Hmm ... seems like it was faked by someone since there’s no concrete evidence he ever posted that tweet. A lot can be done with Photoshop ...

 

[tennisville]

Hmm ... seems like it was faked by someone since there’s no concrete evidence he ever posted that tweet. A lot can be done with Photoshop ...

There is right, the tweet was present until he had to delete it

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Simon Briggs on Twitter a moment ago,

"Just in case there wasn't enough tennis tonight,am hearing that Novak Djokovic and Vasek Pospisil who resigned from the ATP Player Council in August (under duress from fellow members) in order to launch the PTPA are now applying to rejoin the Player Council'

 

[tented]

Simon Briggs on Twitter a moment ago,

"Just in case there wasn't enough tennis tonight,am hearing that Novak Djokovic and Vasek Pospisil who resigned from the ATP Player Council in August (under duress from fellow members) in order to launch the PTPA are now applying to rejoin the Player Council'

 

[tennisville]

Simon Briggs on Twitter a moment ago,

"Just in case there wasn't enough tennis tonight,am hearing that Novak Djokovic and Vasek Pospisil who resigned from the ATP Player Council in August (under duress from fellow members) in order to launch the PTPA are now applying to rejoin the Player Council'

I can't find the source of this anywhere. I think this is just reelection and no seat is safe if I am hearing correctly. Personally, I will wait for a reliable source though since no one else even knows about it

Also, it could be the majority of the players are unhappy with the current council since they reduced the prize money of lower players and qualies and increased the prize money for the later rounds as George Elias tweet mentioned. Also this council just changed ranking rules on the fly without announcing it to anyone causing distrust among the majority

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

I can't find the source of this anywhere. I think this is just reelection and no seat is safe if I am hearing correctly. Personally, I will wait for a reliable source though since no one else even knows about it

Also, it could be the majority of the players are unhappy with the current council since they reduced the prize money of lower players and qualies and increased the prize money for the later rounds as George Elias tweet mentioned. Also this council just changed ranking rules on the fly without announcing it to anyone causing distrust among the majority

It was on Twitter yesterday after the last match at the ATP finals.Simons Briggs does Media for the Telegraph in London..It was on Twitter twice yesterday.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

It was on Twitter yesterday after the last match at the ATP finals.Simon Briggs does Media for the Telegraph in London..It was on Twitter twice yesterday.

Just went to Twitter and found the same extract from Simon Briggs which was retweeted from Jon Weithern from SI about 18hr ago.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Sventennis replying to Simon Briggs 5 mins ago on Twitter,

"You said it right in your earlier tweet.They resigned 'under duress from fellow members" and Gaudenzi (you forgot!).They have every right to get back on the council since Gaudenzi continues to be Director of The Board of ATP Media.PTPA having multiple council members is+".