Police in America

[britbox]

Where I differ from you @Moxie is that I think there is far too much focus on race.  My preference would be to have "race" consigned to the dustbin and move toward a colour-blind approach.  The more people are pigeon-holed and categorised by race the more divisive it becomes, even when it's based on a well-meaning aspiration.

 

[Federberg]

That's very true @britbox. I'm fairly sure that I'm colour blind in terms of how I interact with people. But when I look around, particularly watching something like Fox News, I'm often appalled about the lack of sensitivity shown towards African Americans. The idea that because there's affirmative action and the fact that their rights are protected under the law means that they have nothing to complain about is an incredibly naive (and that's being generous) view. I would love for the likes of Hannity to spend a month in the shoes of a young African American in the United States and see if they retain the same view. Stopped by the police because of your race, watched suspiciously by shop assistants, passed over for promotion even if you outperform your white colleagues at work are just a handful of the issues African Americans have to deal with on a daily basis. They don't even bother to really protest about this stuff, it's accepted as what is. But for me the line is crossed when the very people who are supposed to protect you are a threat to your existence. It's too much. It has to change, and I applaud the protest movement. People can try to define me as a liberal if they want, its amusing, but I have a strong belief in social justice and fairness and if it smells of something else I feel compelled to say something

 

[britbox]

I think you have to just filter stuff out @federberg , my old man watches a lot of news networks, reads newspapers and seems to spend half the day outraged by this that and the other.  I told him to filter it out and just worry about what you can change at a local level.  There are neverending injustices in the world and they'll eat at away at your soul if you don't turn on the filters. I haven't got through to him yet though 

 

[Federberg]

I hear you! But it's tough not to feel outrage. It's the same way I felt when I was on business in an African city and met a prominent politician who was fabulously wealthy. It's well know that this guy has stolen hundreds of millions of dollars. I couldn't help thinking of the children I'd seen on the roadside suffering from kwashiorkor. Clearly he was able to filter that out, sadly I'm not made that way!

 

[Moxie]

Where I differ from you @Moxie is that I think there is far too much focus on race. My preference would be to have “race” consigned to the dustbin and move toward a colour-blind approach. The more people are pigeon-holed and categorised by race the more divisive it becomes, even when it’s based on a well-meaning aspiration.

This is not a difference between us, @britbox. I completely agree.

 

[calitennis127]

I would love for the likes of Hannity to spend a month in the shoes of a young African American in the United States and see if they retain the same view. Stopped by the police because of your race, watched suspiciously by shop assistants, passed over for promotion even if you outperform your white colleagues at work are just a handful of the issues African Americans have to deal with on a daily basis.

You obviously have no black friends. You obviously have never listened to rap or R&B. You obviously have no knowledge of America.

 

[Moxie]

Federberg wrote:
I would love for the likes of Hannity to spend a month in the shoes of a young African American in the United States and see if they retain the same view. Stopped by the police because of your race, watched suspiciously by shop assistants, passed over for promotion even if you outperform your white colleagues at work are just a handful of the issues African Americans have to deal with on a daily basis.

You obviously have no black friends. You obviously have never listened to rap or R&B. You obviously have no knowledge of America.

You are presuming exactly the opposite of what Federberg's post implies.

 

[calitennis127]

I think everyone would have agreed that there is more racial diversity in the police forces across the board in the US. That is very different from claiming they have a majority representation. Your other points, as to the racist component to white cop on black kid crime, and why the AA community still suffers as an under-class is the stuff of graduate theses, and I won’t tackle it now. However, as to your choice to use the word “colored”: choosing not to be “PC” is one thing. Being offensive is another. You don’t have to use “spokesperson” if you prefer “spokesman.” But “colored” is a word that the African-American community, and essentially the general populace in the US, has eschewed, as old-guard, and racist. Dr. King used it, because it was a convention in his time. Mark Twain used the N-word, as it was a convention in his, and therefore colloquially reported in dialogue…in a novel. (It still causes problems with “Huckleberry Finn,” which I disagree with.) That doesn’t give you carte blanche to use either. If you are not a person of color, yourself, I think you’d do better to opt for the adjectives that people in minority groups prefer for themselves. It’s not just “PC.” It’s gracious. And the alternative has the tinge of racism, which I’m sure you don’t want.

 

LOL.....good grief Moxie. Have you ever been in a heated majority-black basketball or football setting where the n-word is flying around like crazy? Have you ever been in a heated basketball game where one black male gets in the face of another black male and says "what the f--- did you say n----?"

 

[calitennis127]

Calitennis127 wrote:
<blockquote>
Federberg wrote:
I would love for the likes of Hannity to spend a month in the shoes of a young African American in the United States and see if they retain the same view. Stopped by the police because of your race, watched suspiciously by shop assistants, passed over for promotion even if you outperform your white colleagues at work are just a handful of the issues African Americans have to deal with on a daily basis.

You obviously have no black friends. You obviously have never listened to rap or R&B. You obviously have no knowledge of America.</blockquote>
You are presuming exactly the opposite of what Federberg’s post implies.

Exactly correct. What I am saying is that a sensitized leftist woman like yourself and a testosterone-deficient white male like Federberg have no understanding whatsoever of the psyche of black males. It is plain as day that neither of you have spent time around them or understand them at all. In your case, it is not so much a matter of intentions but of ignorance. It is something which you simply do not understand or know anything about. If Federberg had a clue, he would know that most black males are too confident, too arrogant, and too wrapped up in doing their own thing to care about his opinion.

 

[calitennis127]

I would love for the likes of Hannity to spend a month in the shoes of a young African American in the United States and see if they retain the same view. Stopped by the police because of your race, watched suspiciously by shop assistants, passed over for promotion even if you outperform your white colleagues at work are just a handful of the issues African Americans have to deal with on a daily basis. They don’t even bother to really protest about this stuff, it’s accepted as what is.

I would love for the likes of Federberg to spend a month in the shoes of a young African-American in the United States and see if they retain the same view. So this is what I recommend you do, Federberg, if you wish to understand what goes on in a violent environment like Chicago, Baltimore, or Compton. Go to your nearest Gucci store 10 times in the next 4 weeks and constantly think about what would make you look most fly. Then go to Foot Locker - if you even know what that is - and get yourself some kicks, maybe some Jordan's, maybe some KD's (again, if you even know what those are). Then, if you really want to get in the minds of gangsters and gang-bangers, listen to gangster rap for a month. I am sure Moxie would appreciate feminist-friendly lines like "Every day a different b---- on my arm" or "I'll do it like Bill Clinton, girl, and shoot it straight down your chest".

Maybe after doing these things for a month, you will begin to ever-so-slightly understand the hyper-competitive and egotistical environment that leads to confrontations with police.

 

[Moxie]

Good grief is right, Cali.  You expose a lot about your own one-dimensional view of black men.  And you know nothing about my social life or work life, for that matter.  I do understand that the N-word gets thrown around amongst friends, and that crude things get said about women which I can take with very good humor.  I suspect that your narrow world view also sees "feminist" women as equally one-dimensional, and humorless on top of it.  I work with majority-male crews, and I travel the world with them.  I have heard, and laughed at, things that would make your eyelashes curl.  I'm perfectly down with the non-PC, amongst friends.  (Which does not mean being "racist" when minorities aren't looking.)  I'm saying that, when you're not amongst friends, graciousness is a good watchword.  There is no reason not to be sensitive to people, in your language and in your heart.  That could apply to everyone.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Lmao the stereotyping in that post...

 

[Billie]

I think the stereotyping is colouring most posts here in this topic. 

And we can say the same things about men vs women and their rights; people born here vs immigrants.   We all have different opinions about these as well and there would be cases where some statements are true and some are not.

I don't think that police are specifically against poor black people.  I think they are tough on whatever population mainly lives in that area and that might include:  black people, Mexican people, white problematic neighbourhoods.   But it is obviously in somebody's interest to play out the cases of unfair treatments of black people mostly so publicly so we are under impression that police are really against black people only.

 

[Moxie]

I think the stereotyping is colouring most posts here in this topic.

And we can say the same things about men vs women and their rights; people born here vs immigrants. We all have different opinions about these as well and there would be cases where some statements are true and some are not. I don’t think that police are specifically against poor black people. I think they are tough on whatever population mainly lives in that area and that might include: black people, Mexican people, white problematic neighbourhoods. But it is obviously in somebody’s interest to play out the cases of unfair treatments of black people mostly so publicly so we are under impression that police are really against black people only.

The police are not "against" black or brown people, in general, or in most cities/neighborhoods.  This isn't the pre-Civil Rights Era.  However, there is an institutionalized prejudice and fear of black men, specifically, that causes the trigger to be pulled a little too early, when involving the police and AA men.  This is why we have to call out that "Black Lives Matter."  You can't possibly think that a 12-year-old, with a toy guy, would have been shot to death by a cop if he wasn't big for his age and black.  The dispatcher said it could have been a toy.  The kid was killed within minutes of the cop showing up.  No time given to investigate.  Young black men are perceived as a threat in this country, before they are presumed innocent.  They get shot because they scare cops.  And they scare cops because of the institutional racism that tells us that black men are a basic threat.  Read that Maine's governor has talked about his state's drug problem and said that it has to do with black men coming up to Maine and impregnating white girls there.  This speaks very specifically to an old fear of black men, commonly credited to the South, but obviously not unique to it.

 

[I.Haychew]

Billie wrote:
I think the stereotyping is colouring most posts here in this topic.

And we can say the same things about men vs women and their rights; people born here vs immigrants. We all have different opinions about these as well and there would be cases where some statements are true and some are not. I don’t think that police are specifically against poor black people. I think they are tough on whatever population mainly lives in that area and that might include: black people, Mexican people, white problematic neighbourhoods. But it is obviously in somebody’s interest to play out the cases of unfair treatments of black people mostly so publicly so we are under impression that police are really against black people only.

The police are not “against” black or brown people, in general, or in most cities/neighborhoods. This isn’t the pre-Civil Rights Era. However, there is an institutionalized prejudice and fear of black men, specifically, that causes the trigger to be pulled a little too early, when involving the police and AA men. This is why we have to call out that “Black Lives Matter.” You can’t possibly think that a 12-year-old, with a toy guy, would have been shot to death by a cop if he wasn’t big for his age and black. The dispatcher said it could have been a toy. The kid was killed within minutes of the cop showing up. No time given to investigate. Young black men are perceived as a threat in this country, before they are presumed innocent. They get shot because they scare cops. And they scare cops because of the institutional racism that tells us that black men are a basic threat. Read that Maine’s governor has talked about his state’s drug problem and said that it has to do with black men coming up to Maine and impregnating white girls there. This speaks very specifically to an old fear of black men, commonly credited to the South, but obviously not unique to it.

I have serious issues with this post. Before, and if, I decide to respond, I need all of the FACTS regarding the "12-year-old with a toy gun" scenario. I also need FACTS which confirm that there is an institutionalized prejudice and fear of black men among police officers that causes them to 'pull the trigger a bit too early', and FACTS that black men are perceived as a threat in this country before they are presumed innocent, and that they get shot because they "scare" cops, and that they scare cops because of the so-called "institutional racism" that tells us that black men are a general threat.

 

[I.Haychew]

That’s very true @britbox. I’m fairly sure that I’m colour blind in terms of how I interact with people. But when I look around, particularly watching something like Fox News, I’m often appalled about the lack of sensitivity shown towards African Americans. The idea that because there’s affirmative action and the fact that their rights are protected under the law means that they have nothing to complain about is an incredibly naive (and that’s being generous) view. I would love for the likes of Hannity to spend a month in the shoes of a young African American in the United States and see if they retain the same view. Stopped by the police because of your race, watched suspiciously by shop assistants, passed over for promotion even if you outperform your white colleagues at work are just a handful of the issues African Americans have to deal with on a daily basis. They don’t even bother to really protest about this stuff, it’s accepted as what is. But for me the line is crossed when the very people who are supposed to protect you are a threat to your existence. It’s too much. It has to change, and I applaud the protest movement. People can try to define me as a liberal if they want, its amusing, but I have a strong belief in social justice and fairness and if it smells of something else I feel compelled to say something

Please provide facts supporting your contentions that FOX News purports that blacks have nothing to complain about because of affirmative action and equal protection under the law. Also, please provide proof that blacks are currently passed over for promotions solely because they are black,  that police currently stop blacks solely because they are black, and that "the very people who are supposed to protect you" are a threat to black's existence.

 

[Moxie]

Moxie wrote:
<blockquote>
Billie wrote:
I think the stereotyping is colouring most posts here in this topic.

And we can say the same things about men vs women and their rights; people born here vs immigrants. We all have different opinions about these as well and there would be cases where some statements are true and some are not. I don’t think that police are specifically against poor black people. I think they are tough on whatever population mainly lives in that area and that might include: black people, Mexican people, white problematic neighbourhoods. But it is obviously in somebody’s interest to play out the cases of unfair treatments of black people mostly so publicly so we are under impression that police are really against black people only.

The police are not “against” black or brown people, in general, or in most cities/neighborhoods. This isn’t the pre-Civil Rights Era. However, there is an institutionalized prejudice and fear of black men, specifically, that causes the trigger to be pulled a little too early, when involving the police and AA men. This is why we have to call out that “Black Lives Matter.” You can’t possibly think that a 12-year-old, with a toy guy, would have been shot to death by a cop if he wasn’t big for his age and black. The dispatcher said it could have been a toy. The kid was killed within minutes of the cop showing up. No time given to investigate. Young black men are perceived as a threat in this country, before they are presumed innocent. They get shot because they scare cops. And they scare cops because of the institutional racism that tells us that black men are a basic threat. Read that Maine’s governor has talked about his state’s drug problem and said that it has to do with black men coming up to Maine and impregnating white girls there. This speaks very specifically to an old fear of black men, commonly credited to the South, but obviously not unique to it.</blockquote>
I have serious issues with this post. Before, and if, I decide to respond, I need all of the FACTS regarding the “12-year-old with a toy gun” scenario. I also need FACTS which confirm that there is an institutionalized prejudice and fear of black men among police officers that causes them to ‘pull the trigger a bit too early’, and FACTS that black men are perceived as a threat in this country before they are presumed innocent, and that they get shot because they “scare” cops, and that they scare cops because of the so-called “institutional racism” that tells us that black men are a general threat.

See if this is enough for you on the Tamir Rice shooting.

 

[calitennis127]

Lmao the stereotyping in that post…

It is not mere stereotyping you moron.....it is anecdotal and empirical. What do you want me to do? Search statistics on the demographics that buy Jordan and Nike basketball apparel the most and provide it? Never mind that there has never even been a basketball shoe named after a white person.

It would be like assuming that someone of Amish lineage has worked on a farm. Stereotyping, yes? But more than likely right. Stereotypes are stereotypes because there is a lot of truth to them. The fact that 8 times out of 100 a stereotype isn't true doesn't invalidate the general rule.

Moron.

 

[britbox]

 

[DarthFed]

Cali we are talking Air Jordan's here.  I guarantee you that plenty of white boys in this country have owned many pairs of MJ's shoes.  I'd bet the same is true for KD's and LBJ's shoes as well.