Novak Djokovic's Vaccine Stance & Visa Troubles

BratSrbin

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Brother, took me six seconds to find on Australias immigration website that he didn’t have a valid vaccine exemption. He knew this too and he lied, cheated and tried to buy his way in. How anyone can’t see this is beyond me. Now we’re being trolled again. That seems to be a national pastime in Serbia..

:popcorn

Maybe it's not too late to tell Judge Kelly that he didn't consider your evidence No1e is lying.
 

BratSrbin

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What 3 governing bodies? State of Victoria and the Feds. Border Patrol is the feds. As I said above, I think it was Tiley who tried to get him in, knowing the feds had already let a few (2) in under the same pretense, (recent Covid exposure, which was explicitly NOT on the list of exemptions.) A wing and a prayer, and Novak knew that going in. Unless he and his lawyers are idiots.

This endless re-litigating of the facts is tiresome. If certain posters spent more time over here, however, they would realize we are more than up for arguing the same points, forever. They'll never beat us in a war of attrition. :lulz1:

All I wanted to do was disprove you with facts. Now, the fact that you are very persistent in defending the indefensible is another story.
 

Moxie

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An example of confusion (muddy the waters).

Read REASONS FOR JUDGMENT, maybe it will be clearer. At list for vater.
"Reasons for Judgement" is the entire document, and I DID read it, as I cited above. I don't know what "vater" means. Is that a misspelling?
That is not disputed at all. That's what Mick tells you. The Minister and the Government of Australia made a decision contrary to the court's. They had a legal right to do that, but not a moral one.
I don't know who Mick is.

The Minister and the Government did NOT make a decision contrary to the courts. The court agreed that they had a right to their assessment. Again, I will say there was a lot of citation of law, and of precedence, which is a lot of legalese. We have no way of knowing how much the court did not want to set precedent in other ways. But their judgment was clear, and you have no right to any "moral" high ground on this. But now I see where this comes from. You're still trying to excuse Novak's trying to sneak into Australia under false pretenses. As if the failing wasn't his own. He somehow got snaked into believing that all would be OK, even if he had no reasonable case. A man of his intelligence, and with a full legal team doesn't know he was taking his chances. He got caught, is all.
 

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"Reasons for Judgement" is the entire document, and I DID read it, as I cited above. I don't know what "vater" means. Is that a misspelling?

I don't know who Mick is.

The Minister and the Government did NOT make a decision contrary to the courts. The court agreed that they had a right to their assessment. Again, I will say there was a lot of citation of law, and of precedence, which is a lot of legalese. We have no way of knowing how much the court did not want to set precedent in other ways. But their judgment was clear, and you have no right to any "moral" high ground on this. But now I see where this comes from. You're still trying to excuse Novak's trying to sneak into Australia under false pretenses. As if the failing wasn't his own. He somehow got snaked into believing that all would be OK, even if he had no reasonable case. A man of his intelligence, and with a full legal team doesn't know he was taking his chances. He got caught, is all.
I cant believe we are going though this AGAIN ...........honestly,!
 

BratSrbin

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"Reasons for Judgement" is the entire document, and I DID read it, as I cited above. I don't know what "vater" means. Is that a misspelling?

I don't know who Mick is.

The Minister and the Government did NOT make a decision contrary to the courts. The court agreed that they had a right to their assessment. Again, I will say there was a lot of citation of law, and of precedence, which is a lot of legalese. We have no way of knowing how much the court did not want to set precedent in other ways. But their judgment was clear, and you have no right to any "moral" high ground on this. But now I see where this comes from. You're still trying to excuse Novak's trying to sneak into Australia under false pretenses. As if the failing wasn't his own. He somehow got snaked into believing that all would be OK, even if he had no reasonable case. A man of his intelligence, and with a full legal team doesn't know he was taking his chances. He got caught, is all.

Are you at odds with common sense?
The judge's decision is that No1e can be and compete in Australia and the Minister makes the decision to expel him from the country. No explanation. Take a closer look at that decision.
 
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Moxie

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MikeOne.


Yes, misspelling. It should be "water".
Honestly, I thought Mike On was one your side. And I still don't know what "At risk for water" means. Muddying the the waters? Let's talk about you for a second. Your first reaading of that judgment was that it went in Novak's favor, so you got THAT wrong. When that was pointed out, you tried to pick out things that seemed to point out that perhaps Novak was wrong, but not wholly. I talked to you about courts being cautious about precedent. It means nothing in absolving Novak. The court upheld the claim by the Minister. If you want to read that judgment in your own way, no one can stop you, but you haven't got the legal chops to tell the rest of us you are right and we are wrong. The truth is that Novak had his day in court, and they found his case wanting, v. that of the Minister. It was his lawyers that asked for a 3-judge panel, no appeals. You and he can both consider yourselves lucky that Australia at least lifted his 3-year ban.
 
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Moxie

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Are you at odds with common sense?
The judge's decision is that No1e can be and compete in Australia and the Minister makes the decision to expel him from the country. No explanation. Take a closer look at that decision.
This is incorrect, or please cite me the notation in the document. Are you looking at the previous one, which only said that he wasn't to be detained, pending further hearings? Or now, more likely, are you just making stuff up? You keep saying, "Take a closer look at that decision." We've been looking at it. We've discussed. Now I think you're just shining us on, trolling, and beating a dead horse. I have to stop responding to this nonsense. Mostly because, based on past performance, you'll be gone in 2 days. You've slathered these forums with as much Novak cultishness as you likely can, without once discussing tennis. See you in a month? Depending on how Wimbledon goes for Novak, I guess? SO looking forward to it. Mean it.
 
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tented

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Now let me also apologized to the Admins who are probably going to have to do the clean-up on this and move it to the thread where it belongs. Pardon the interruption, as they say.
IMG_2732.gif

[Actual undercover footage]
 

BratSrbin

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Last chance:
"On 10 January 2022, Judge Kelly issued consent orders in favour of Djokovic based
on grounds of procedural unfairness and unreasonableness.
The order was that the DHA officer’s decision be quashed and that Djokovic be released immediately
from immigration detention.
The Minister for Home Affairs conceded that the officer’s decision to proceed with questioning and to cancel Djokovic’s visa was
unreasonable"

No one complained about this decision. The rest is up to the no1ehaters.
 
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Kieran

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I know. Trolls think that if they just keep at it, we'll give up. They don't know us! :popcorn
There does come a point where we are just feeding trolls on this. As you say, the brat didn’t even understand the document he/she (not sure which it is) posted, and ignored correction on it, and ploughed on. I find it interesting the way Djoker fans have a hive mentality over this. There’s no dissent, no adults in the room asking, maybe we’re getting this wrong? Maybe the other side have a point? Like cultists, they echo Novaks lies. It’s fascinating to watch, on some level, but the rudeness is boring. They deliberately don’t want to learn. They don’t want to be wrong about anything regarding Novak, because then they have to accept that Novak himself is wrong, and that seems unbearable to them..
 

tented

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There does come a point where we are just feeding trolls on this. As you say, the brat didn’t even understand the document he/she (not sure which it is) posted, and ignored correction on it, and ploughed on. I find it interesting the way Djoker fans have a hive mentality over this. There’s no dissent, no adults in the room asking, maybe we’re getting this wrong? Maybe the other side have a point? Like cultists, they echo Novaks lies. It’s fascinating to watch, on some level, but the rudeness is boring. They deliberately don’t want to learn. They don’t want to be wrong about anything regarding Novak, because then they have to accept that Novak himself is wrong, and that seems unbearable to them..
Exactly. I was thinking yesterday if I could recall a time when Brat or other Serbs said anything negative about Novak. What is his worst quality? When did he do something you didn’t like? When was he wrong and the other person/player was right? The hagiography is deep within the Serbian community.
 

BratSrbin

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Yes.

I hope you accept how the Australian government lost a court case and then seized the only opportunity to win. You posted that yesterday. No one disputes the legal validity of that decision, although No1es lawyers took, in my opinion, unnecessary steps here as well. There remains a moral stain on the Immigration Minister (that time) for the decision to deny to the greatest tennis player of all time a major tournament by banning him from entering the country even though the court said everything about it was legal.

That is it.
 

Moxie

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Last chance:
"On 10 January 2022, Judge Kelly issued consent orders in favour of Djokovic based
on grounds of procedural unfairness and unreasonableness.
The order was that the DHA officer’s decision be quashed and that Djokovic be released immediately
from immigration detention.
The Minister for Home Affairs conceded that the officer’s decision to proceed with questioning and to cancel Djokovic’s visa was
unreasonable"

No one complained about this decision. The rest is up to the no1ehaters.
Once again, you quote something with no citation. Clearly, it has an editorial point of view, and contains factual errors.

It is also untrue that "no one complained" about the decision to release him, in the first ruling. It was widely unpopular in Australia. (See below)
Yes.

I hope you accept how the Australian government lost a court case and then seized the only opportunity to win. You posted that yesterday. No one disputes the legal validity of that decision, although No1es lawyers took, in my opinion, unnecessary steps here as well. There remains a moral stain on the Immigration Minister (that time) for the decision to deny to the greatest tennis player of all time a major tournament by banning him from entering the country even though the court said everything about it was legal.

That is it.
You mischaracterize the initial ruling, which was merely that Novak didn't have enough time at the airport to present his case. The judge didn't say his visa was correct. The decision was procedural.

To characterize the Immigration Minister's position as a "moral stain" is preposterous, and an outsized-notion of what one tennis player, however accomplished, means in terms of a sovereign nation's concerns and internal issues.

This is from the International Bar Association website, written by Marial Lewis, a top immigration attorney in Australia:


Some excerpts for you:

The first cancellation

Djokovic was, however, denied entry to Australia on 6 January 2022, following his visa cancellation at Melbourne airport due to his unvaccinated status which opposed border entry Australia’s requirement. He was then sent to an immigration detention centre while his appeal to the court was being processed.

The appeal was heard within a few days, on 10 January 2022.[1] In that hearing, Justice Kelly made a finding in Djokovic’s favour on the basis that he was not provided with a reasonable opportunity nor sufficient time to respond at the airport interview which was conducted very early in the morning. Djokovic was then released from detention and announced his participation in the tournament.

________________

Bold is mine. Note: Novak's unvaccinated status opposed border entry requirements. That was knowable by all, including Djokovic before he tried to get in, anyway. Also note the basis for Justice Kelly finding in Novak's favor. Not that he was right, just that he wasn't allowed sufficient time to present his case. This meant that the Minister had to re-cancel the visa, and present its case.

_______________

The second cancellation

On Djokovic’s release, his visa was cancelled for the second time a few days later, on 14 January. The visa this time was cancelled personally by the then-Minister of Immigration, Alex Hawke. The reason for its cancellation was that it was in the public interest to do so with the idea that as a role model he would encourage others to follow his footsteps in refusing to take the Covid-19 vaccination. It also came to light that Djokovic lied on his travel declaration form, which is viewed very seriously in Australia, and that he had participated in a public event in his home country, Serbia, a day after testing positive with Covid-19.

On 15 January 2022, Djokovic was taken back to immigration detention. His appeal before the full federal court was dismissed unanimously the following day, finding that the Minister’s decision was not illogical nor irrational. The court finding was that:

‘It was not irrational for the Minister to be concerned that the asserted support of some anti-vaccination groups for Mr Djokovic’s apparent position on vaccination may encourage rallies and protests that may lead to heightened community transmission.’

The court further confirmed that the Minister did not have to give reasons for his decision, but he did anyway.


_____________

Again, Bold is mine. Note that when the above says, "His appeal before the full federal court was dismissed unanimously," it refers to Djokovic, per the previous sentence. This is something you seem to have misunderstood. Also mentioned is that he lied on his travel declaration form.

_____________

She also notes these:

"The public frustrations were in relation to giving an exemption to a famous tennis player when Australians endured very harsh lockdown rules due to the pandemic including strict restrictions on normal day-to-day activities including attending funerals and conducting weddings and visiting sick loved ones in hospital."

"It was perceived by the public as extreme unfairness that a famous tennis player gets an exemption to compete in an international competition when for two years, Australia had refused travel exemptions in and out of the country to many separated families and loved ones including in many compassionate cases. Similarly, exemptions were not granted by the government to many in Australia to move freely within the country."


(To your point above that "no one objected.")

_____________

You can continue deny what is true, if that's the way you want to live your life, but, for the sake of intelligent posters here, I can't let your fake news have the last word.

 
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BratSrbin

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Once again, you quote something with no citation. Clearly, it has an editorial point of view, and contains factual errors.

It is also untrue that "no one complained" about the decision to release him, in the first ruling. It was widely unpopular in Australia. (See below)

You mischaracterize the initial ruling, which was merely that Novak didn't have enough time at the airport to present his case. The judge didn't say his visa was correct. The decision was procedural.

To characterize the Immigration Minister's position as a "moral stain" is preposterous, and an outsized-notion of what one tennis player, however accomplished, means in terms of a sovereign nation's concerns and internal issues.

This is from the International Bar Association website, written by Marial Lewis, a top immigration attorney in Australia:


Some excerpts for you:

The first cancellation

Djokovic was, however, denied entry to Australia on 6 January 2022, following his visa cancellation at Melbourne airport due to his unvaccinated status which opposed border entry Australia’s requirement. He was then sent to an immigration detention centre while his appeal to the court was being processed.

The appeal was heard within a few days, on 10 January 2022.[1] In that hearing, Justice Kelly made a finding in Djokovic’s favour on the basis that he was not provided with a reasonable opportunity nor sufficient time to respond at the airport interview which was conducted very early in the morning. Djokovic was then released from detention and announced his participation in the tournament.

________________

Bold is mine. Note: Novak's unvaccinated status opposed border entry requirements. That was knowable by all, including Djokovic before he tried to get in, anyway. Also note the basis for Justice Kelly finding in Novak's favor. Not that he was right, just that he wasn't allowed sufficient time to present his case. This meant that the Minister had to re-cancel the visa, and present its case.

_______________

The second cancellation

On Djokovic’s release, his visa was cancelled for the second time a few days later, on 14 January. The visa this time was cancelled personally by the then-Minister of Immigration, Alex Hawke. The reason for its cancellation was that it was in the public interest to do so with the idea that as a role model he would encourage others to follow his footsteps in refusing to take the Covid-19 vaccination. It also came to light that Djokovic lied on his travel declaration form, which is viewed very seriously in Australia, and that he had participated in a public event in his home country, Serbia, a day after testing positive with Covid-19.

On 15 January 2022, Djokovic was taken back to immigration detention. His appeal before the full federal court was dismissed unanimously the following day, finding that the Minister’s decision was not illogical nor irrational. The court finding was that:

‘It was not irrational for the Minister to be concerned that the asserted support of some anti-vaccination groups for Mr Djokovic’s apparent position on vaccination may encourage rallies and protests that may lead to heightened community transmission.’

The court further confirmed that the Minister did not have to give reasons for his decision, but he did anyway.


_____________

Again, Bold is mine. Note that when the above says, "His appeal before the full federal court was dismissed unanimously," it refers to Djokovic, per the previous sentence. This is something you seem to have misunderstood. Also mentioned is that he lied on his travel declaration form.

_____________

She also notes these:

"The public frustrations were in relation to giving an exemption to a famous tennis player when Australians endured very harsh lockdown rules due to the pandemic including strict restrictions on normal day-to-day activities including attending funerals and conducting weddings and visiting sick loved ones in hospital."

"It was perceived by the public as extreme unfairness that a famous tennis player gets an exemption to compete in an international competition when for two years, Australia had refused travel exemptions in and out of the country to many separated families and loved ones including in many compassionate cases. Similarly, exemptions were not granted by the government to many in Australia to move freely within the country."


(To your point above that "no one objected.")

_____________

You can continue deny what is true, if that's the way you want to live your life, but, for the sake of intelligent posters here, I can't let your fake news have the last word.


A lot of untruths and lies have been told here, but since I promised - I will not discuss it.
Just to add, I didn't feel it necessary to quote what you posted:
"MIGRATION – application for review of decision of the Minister to cancel visa under personal power under s 133C(3) of the Migration Act 1958 (Cth) – where Minister satisfied that a ground for cancelling the visa under s 116 of the Migration Act existed – where Minister satisfied that the presence of the applicant in Australia may be a risk to the health, safety or good order of the Australian community under s 116(1)(e)(i) of the Migration Act – where Minister satisfied under s 133C(3)(b) of the Migration Act that it would be in the public interest to cancel the visa – application dismissed"
Bold is mine.
 
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Moxie

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A lot of untruths and lies have been told here, but since I promised - I will not discuss it.
Just to add, I didn't feel it necessary to quote what you posted:
"MIGRATION – application for review of decision of the Minister to cancel visa under personal power under s 133C(3) of the Migration Act 1958 (Cth) – where Minister satisfied that a ground for cancelling the visa under s 116 of the Migration Act existed – where Minister satisfied that the presence of the applicant in Australia may be a risk to the health, safety or good order of the Australian community under s 116(1)(e)(i) of the Migration Act – where Minister satisfied under s 133C(3)(b) of the Migration Act that it would be in the public interest to cancel the visa – application dismissed"
Bold is mine.
No untruths or lies have been told. Much evidence has been presented...once again. You would do well to read what the Aussie barrister had to say above.

The Minister, as you cite, did satisfy for the purposes of the court that Novak was a risk to the health, safety and good order of the Australian community. And that it would be in the public interest to cancel the visa, which 3 justices certified. Also, let it be remembered, that Novak's lawyers asked for a final hearing with 3 justices...no appeals. Meaning he would live by the decision. You must do the same.

You also promised to quit. I will hold you to that. No more re-litigating it here, as in, starting from scratch and pretending you never heard anything that was said, which you've already done once. Or, more than once, including above, where you are once again blatantly ignoring the words in front of you.
 
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Kieran

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No untruths or lies have been told. Much evidence has been presented...once again. You would do well to read what the Aussie barrister had to say above.

The Minister, as you cite, did satisfy for the purposes of the court that Novak was a risk to the health, safety and good order of the Australian community. And that it would be in the public interest to cancel the visa, which 3 justices certified. Also, let it be remembered, that Novak's lawyers asked for a final hearing with 3 justices...no appeals. Meaning he would live by the decision. You must do the same.

You also promised to quit. I will hold you to that. No more re-litigating it here, as in, starting from scratch and pretending you never heard anything that was said, which you've already done once. Or, more than once, including above, where you are once again blatantly ignoring the words in front of you.
Trojan work! :clap::clap:
 
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@BratSrbin -

- What are Novak’s worst features?
- What has he done which you didn’t approve of?
- When did he do something which was clearly wrong, and the other person was right?
- When did he lie?
 
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