Novak Djokovic Hiatus

[roberto]

His announcement that he's taking the rest of the year off to fully heel his elbow seems like a smart decision. Time off did wonders for Roger after 2016, and the same has happened a couple of times when Rafa's come back from downtime.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

He is just waiting Roger out...

 

[GameSetAndMath]

If he takes 10 years off, it will do even more wonders.

 

[Moxie]

To take your post seriously, ahem...these guys, by winning so much, have played a lot of tennis in a short amount of time, in various years. Often more tennis than anyone else, and certainly more at the higher-stakes. Eventually body and soul are going to need a break, however that shakes down, and whatever falls apart first.

 

[roberto]

I also think that the fact that Novak has had elbow problems for 1 1/2 years diminishes somewhat the more gossipy explanations for his decline in play. They may also have been a factor, but clearly his ability to play at the highest levels was diminished.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

There were three factors involved in Novak's issues.

1. Lack of motivation and mental fatigue after the high of NCYGS.
2. Extra-curricular activities and related family problems.
3. Elbow injury and other minor injuries.

Just because he is taking the rest of the year, does not suddenly change the narrative that only elbow is the cause of all his problems.

 

[Moxie]

I also think that the fact that Novak has had elbow problems for 1 1/2 years diminishes somewhat the more gossipy explanations for his decline in play. They may also have been a factor, but clearly his ability to play at the highest levels was diminished.

TBH, Roberto, I'm not completely buying that he's had elbow problems for 1-1/2 years. His fans around here have been telling us that his on-going issue has been his shoulder. The elbow only got mentioned around IW. I honestly think it's a bit of a lot of things, including personal and mental, but I have a hard time believing he's been suffering that much physically at the same time he managed to win all 4 Majors in a row, a feat not seen since Laver in 1969. That does stretch credulity.

 

[roberto]

Well actually, depending on the exact timing which is hard to determine, as well as the intensity and constancy of pain, he may have only won the French with the injury, it's been almost 14 months since then. And of course I agree with GSM that it's a combo of things with him--but just more physical than many were assuming...

 

[Moxie]

Well actually, depending on the exact timing which is hard to determine, as well as the intensity and constancy of pain, he may have only won the French with the injury, it's been almost 14 months since then. And of course I agree with GSM that it's a combo of things with him--but just more physical than many were assuming...

Roberto, I'm a Nadal fan. I believe that a lot of these guys play with pain, and endure a lot until they're forced to stop, as long as they're winning. I have no problem believing that Novak has been playing with injuries, and that he's likely made his elbow much worse by playing through pain. And he may well have bit down on a bullet to win RG last year. He did want it that much. Still and all, it's been like trying to nail jello to a wall to figure out what has been going on with Djokovic this past year. With Nadal, you knew it was the knees, when it first went south, and mostly since. Federer: chronic back, then sudden knee. With Novak, it's the shoulder, the wrist, the elbow, the personal life, fire the whole team, no, the elbow...blah, blah, blah. I don't doubt that his body hurts, but most of us don't think that's his biggest problem.

 

[roberto]

That's just it: the facts that have been released about elbow based injury are demonstrable; the rest is speculation/psycoanalyzing, which may be fun to do but is not the basis for winning an argument.

 

[Moxie]

That's just it: the facts that have been released about elbow based injury are demonstrable; the rest is speculation/psycoanalyzing, which may be fun to do but is not the basis for winning an argument.

Not quite true that the rest is "speculation." He has himself talked about his personal problems, his shoulder, his wrist, his motivation issues. And he did fire his team. That happened. You're willing to concede that it is more than one thing, but if you put the most of it on his elbow, I think you're kidding yourself.

 

[roberto]

My simple premise is that it's definitely a combo of things as GSM stated--but the elbow/arm has been more of a factor than most realized, instead putting it on the alleged affair as well as motivation challenges...

 

[Moxie]

My simple premise is that it's definitely a combo of things as GSM stated--but the elbow/arm has been more of a factor than most realized, instead putting it on the alleged affair as well as motivation challenges...

I think I've also been fair about making it about multiple issues, and I'm more inclined than most to believe that he's got physical issues. I have never mentioned the "alleged affair," and am not inclined to. When Novak cited "personal issues," that could be a number of things. Remember that Rafa cited "personal issues" after IW in 2009, and everyone speculated about his romantic life, and instead it was his parents' separation. I don't know what Novak's personal issues are, but I think we all agree that it's part of the conudrum of what's been a huge slump for him over the last year. I actually find his firing of his whole team much more compelling than whatever might be going on in his personal life, in terms of mystery.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

I think I've also been fair about making it about multiple issues, and I'm more inclined than most to believe that he's got physical issues. I have never mentioned the "alleged affair," and am not inclined to. When Novak cited "personal issues," that could be a number of things. Remember that Rafa cited "personal issues" after IW in 2009, and everyone speculated about his romantic life, and instead it was his parents' separation. I don't know what Novak's personal issues are, but I think we all agree that it's part of the conudrum of what's been a huge slump for him over the last year. I actually find his firing of his whole team much more compelling than whatever might be going on in his personal life, in terms of mystery.

About the bolded topic. Apparently Rafa talked with Juan Monaco about starting a family . I too got confused by the title for a moment.

 

[Moxie]

About the bolded topic. Apparently Rafa talked with Juan Monaco about starting a family . I too got confused by the title for a moment.

:lulz2: Very funny. It doesn't need me pointing out that Rafa didn't write the headline. But you're never one to pass up a cheap swipe. #doubleslagextracheese

 

[Moxie]

Actually, I'm listening to the piece in Spanish. It's very interesting. Clearly Pico is setting himself up for his commentating/interviewing days when he quits tennis. He's interviewing Rafa. And he feels that Rafa is much more relaxed than he has been, taking the longer view. I'll listen to the rest tomorrow...there's a 2nd part. Thanks for the link.

 

[mrzz]

Someone posted a while ago data about Djokovic´s serve and forehand average speed, and there was a noticeable difference between his 4 straight majors days and the following period. Surely there was something physical, but as Moxie said all those guys will pass through that -- their level is too damn too high, they take their bodies to the limit. It is probably (as you guys said) coupled with the motivational thing -- maybe he could keep on winning after reaching what he's been chasing just out of talent, confidence, and the level he worked so hard to get, after all is a bit easier to maintain that level than to reach it. But once you get injured, you practice less, you lose confidence, your level drops, so you need to work your way up again -- and that´s were the lack of motivation will get you.

So maybe the timing of the injury was key -- in a sense it was good because it was late enough to allow him to did what he did, but in another he probably needed a bit more will to quickly get back to where he was, and having just conquered 4 majors surely didn't help in that regard.

 

[Federberg]

Someone posted a while ago data about Djokovic´s serve and forehand average speed, and there was a noticeable difference between his 4 straight majors days and the following period. Surely there was something physical, but as Moxie said all those guys will pass through that -- their level is too damn too high, they take their bodies to the limit. It is probably (as you guys said) coupled with the motivational thing -- maybe he could keep on winning after reaching what he's been chasing just out of talent, confidence, and the level he worked so hard to get, after all is a bit easier to maintain that level than to reach it. But once you get injured, you practice less, you lose confidence, your level drops, so you need to work your way up again -- and that´s were the lack of motivation will get you.

So maybe the timing of the injury was key -- in a sense it was good because it was late enough to allow him to did what he did, but in another he probably needed a bit more will to quickly get back to where he was, and having just conquered 4 majors surely didn't help in that regard.

I definitely think there had to be a physical issue. I always remember looking at the forehand average speed data and wondering how that could happen just because he'd run afoul of his wife. In retrospect he probably carried on playing tennis because he didn't want to be around his wife. Why stay at home and be in the dog house? That didn't help whatever's been ailing him. My confusion though, is that every time I've seen Novak look like he has a physical issue it's always looked like his shoulder.

 

[Moxie]

Someone posted a while ago data about Djokovic´s serve and forehand average speed, and there was a noticeable difference between his 4 straight majors days and the following period. Surely there was something physical, but as Moxie said all those guys will pass through that -- their level is too damn too high, they take their bodies to the limit. It is probably (as you guys said) coupled with the motivational thing -- maybe he could keep on winning after reaching what he's been chasing just out of talent, confidence, and the level he worked so hard to get, after all is a bit easier to maintain that level than to reach it. But once you get injured, you practice less, you lose confidence, your level drops, so you need to work your way up again -- and that´s were the lack of motivation will get you.

So maybe the timing of the injury was key -- in a sense it was good because it was late enough to allow him to did what he did, but in another he probably needed a bit more will to quickly get back to where he was, and having just conquered 4 majors surely didn't help in that regard.

You make an interesting point about the combined effects of niggling injury, lack of motivation leading to disinclination to train/practice as hard, leading to loss of speed and timing on his shots, etc. working together to continue a downward effect in his game. (For what it's worth, Becker was complaining late last year that ND wasn't training hard enough.) It's rather the reverse of the upward spiral that led him to Djokovic 2.0: diet fixed the health issues, which led to wins, which led to more confidence, which took his game to a new level. In both cases, multi-faceted knock-on effect, but no single thing.

I definitely think there had to be a physical issue. I always remember looking at the forehand average speed data and wondering how that could happen just because he'd run afoul of his wife. In retrospect he probably carried on playing tennis because he didn't want to be around his wife. Why stay at home and be in the dog house? That didn't help whatever's been ailing him. My confusion though, is that every time I've seen Novak look like he has a physical issue it's always looked like his shoulder.

Even Novak's fans were telling us that it has been about a long-term shoulder injury. I don't find Novak wholly reliable when he complains or sits out a tournament for a specific injury. I do believe that he's had various issues...they all do. And I believe that this bone bruise on his elbow needs rest. Maybe it's just easier for him to streamline the narrative and blame the elbow. But I don't think any of us believes it's that uncomplicated.

 

[Moxie]

I read this NYTimes piece a couple of days ago and debated posting it. It's clearly not a fan piece, and I think the author is a bit harsh. I don't agree with all of his take on Novak, so I apologize in advance to Nole's fans for the tone. But it does get to a lot of the same questions we're all asking. It's not just the forums wondering what goes on.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/14/opinion/wimbledon-whats-the-deal-with-novak-djokovic.html