Nole's best matches

[Denis]

(on a side note, I have to find the article, but with your favorite umpire out there, and the time rules being enforced, their match at MC was significantly shorter... will find the link for it.)

found it: http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2013/04/back-present/47168/#.UXZtGIIsXdU

"This Monte Carlo final lasted 21 games and took 1 hour, 52 minutes. Last year’s Rome final between these two also lasted 21 games, but took 2 hours, 20 minutes. There were, as far as I saw, no official time warnings handed out by chair umpire Mohamed Lahyani, and both guys were moving with dispatch. It looks to me as if Nadal has stopped cleaning the entire baseline before he begins a return game—a positive development in my view, if so. And while they rested less between points, the play itself was just as high-quality as always." - Tignor

Thanks for posting that.

I agree with Tignor -- they were playing noticeably faster. Novak wasn't bouncing the ball dozens of times, and Rafa wasn't dawdling as much as he used to. (At one point during the Rafa/Tsonga match, they put up a graphic indicating that Tsonga was taking more time between points than Rafa!)

I noticed that graph too! When Rafa came back at the Chile Open he had already adjusted to the new rules (or enforcement policy). Really set an example there for others too. Tsonga hasn't gotten the message yet apparently lol. You can also see that Rafa has speeded up his tics, it seems a bit of a hasty and forced routine now.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Quality wise, Nadal/Djokovic at the US Open in 2011 was better than their AO final.

 

[calitennis127]

Quality wise, Nadal/Djokovic at the US Open in 2011 was better than their AO final.

Third set and much of the second in particular.

 

[Didi]

Quality wise, Nadal/Djokovic at the US Open in 2011 was better than their AO final.

Hm, don't agree with that. Their US Open final had a crazy anti climax in the 4th set and in the first two sets I saw a version of Nadal totally desperate, hopeless and not able to hit through Djokovic who I think didn't play anywhere near his best either. Whereas in the AO 2012 final Nadal stepped a lot more into the court, showing much more guts by using his inside out forehand on many more occasions, especially under huge pressure in the 4th set and in general going big with all guns blazing and a total different body language compared with 2011.

Nadal also won an incredible amount of cheap points on that day by either serving with very good placement or using bodyserves very effective. Nole was caught off guard a lot of times whereas in the 2011 USO final he made mincemeat out of Nadal's soft and predictable serve. I don't want anybody to rewatch that marathon in its entirety again but here is a very good edited and put together 45min highlight video which is really worth watching over and over again. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67rq6EznMsM

The peak tennis of their AO final might not have been as good as the 3rd set of their US Open final but as a whole I think it was by far better quality from both of them. By the way, thanks a lot for all the responses to this thread and keep them coming! It's much appreciated, guys.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Quality wise, Nadal/Djokovic at the US Open in 2011 was better than their AO final.

Hm, don't agree with that. Their US Open final had a crazy anti climax in the 4th set and in the first two sets I saw a version of Nadal totally desperate, hopeless and not able to hit through Djokovic who I think didn't play anywhere near his best either. Whereas in the AO 2012 final Nadal stepped a lot more into the court, showing much more guts by using his inside out forehand on many more occasions, especially under huge pressure in the 4th set and in general going big with all guns blazing and a total different body language compared with 2011.

Nadal also won an incredible amount of cheap points on that day by either serving with very good placement or using bodyserves very effective. Nole was caught off guard a lot of times whereas in the 2011 USO final he made mincemeat out of Nadal's soft and predictable serve. I don't want anybody to rewatch that marathon in its entirety again but here is a very good edited and put together 45min highlight video which is really worth watching over and over again. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67rq6EznMsM

The peak tennis of their AO final might not have been as good as the 3rd set of their US Open final but as a whole I think it was by far better quality from both of them. By the way, thanks a lot for all the responses to this thread and keep them coming! It's much appreciated, guys.

I don't disagree with any of what you said (with the exception of the preposterous notion that Novak was nowhere near his best at the 2011 US Open final. He was scary! In fact I think he played better than he did in their match is Melbourne), but what you said isn't so much about the quality of the tennis.

Yes, tactically, and execution wise, Nadal played an overall better match at the AO final, and didn't get bossed around as much as he did at the US Open. His serve was much more effective. But in terms of shotmaking and baseline tennis, the US Open 2011 final is really up there with any match I've seen, especially, as Cali mentioned, the 2nd and 3rd set.

The AO final is an overall better match from a competitive perspective and had much more drama, which is why I limited my statement to "quality."

I also disagree with the notion brought up above that the AO final is on par with the Wimbledon final played by Federer and Nadal in 2008. I'm not saying this due to being a Nadal fan (after all, Rafa lost worse at the US Open and I still consider it to be a better match), but something was missing from the AO final. I can't quite put my finger on it.

 

[Denis]

I also disagree with the notion brought up above that the AO final is on par with the Wimbledon final played by Federer and Nadal in 2008. I'm not saying this due to being a Nadal fan (after all, Rafa lost worse at the US Open and I still consider it to be a better match), but something was missing from the AO final. I can't quite put my finger on it.

Might have to do with with the fact that it is the AO and not Wimbledon? I rank the Wimbledon match higher too. A notch less prestigious. Plus (for me) it's in the morning in the winter. Less ambiance than tennis on a summer afternoon.

 

[Moxie]

One thing to keep in mind is that, similar to Federer ('08 Wimbledon, '06 Rome, '05 AO), a few of Novak's greatest matches have been ones he lost: '08 Queen's Club, '09 Madrid, 2011 RG.

And would that also mean Rafa's losses in Wimbledon 2007 and in Oz 2012 were some of his best matches ever? So a player's best matches aren't where he played his best tennis, but where both guys played well?

I'd say one of Rafa's best matches was the 2008 French Open final, he was flawless. His 2008 Wimbledon, not so much, as he might have won that in three, but failed to shut the door on Roger when he had the chance.

I think there's a difference between a guy playing his best tennis (which to me is his best match) and a guy playing in the most entertaining match for viewers.

Yes, I would definitely say that '07 Wimbledon was one of Rafa's best matches, even though he lost, and '08 Wimbledon is the greatest match ever played, for reasons that have been discussed to death.

Your sentence "So a player's best matches aren't where he played his best tennis, but where both guys played well?" is, I guess, purposely exaggerative. I made it quite clear in my original post that "a few of" the best matches fall into the category of having also been matches they lost. You're trying to extrapolate some kind of generalization out of my statement which simply isn't there, in terms of all of these matches being ones where they both played well, simply because I said some of them were ones he lost.

I never said that.

Best matches can fall into various categories, not just one. Some can be when both guys played at an incredible level, and pushed each other to greater heights, such as Federer/Safin in AO, Rafa/Djokovic '09 Madrid, and Federer/Djokovic '11 RG.

Then there are also matches like Rafa in '08 RG final, where he was at an amazing level, but it was a different kind of match than the one he played just a few weeks later at Wimbledon. In the former, only one guy was playing at an elevated level; in the latter, they both kept pushing each other to greater levels. Both great matches, thus it isn't required that they both play well in order to make the cut.

You guys have found the interesting distinction: greatest matches that a player participated in, v. greatest matches that he, himself, played at best level. I guess they can be two categories. Most fans tend to the "greatest matches," in which both players played at a high level. From there, you can get tented's inclusion of great matches that Novak (and Roger) lost. I tend to the former, (great overall matches,) which is a fan's perspective, I guess.

If the answer is one that Novak won, I'd say it's going to be against Rafa or Roger. And so it has to be a Slam. Either 2010 SF at the USO when he changed his fortunes by beating Roger, or AO 12 when he beat Nadal in 5.

 

[tented]

If the answer is one that Novak won, I'd say it's going to be against Rafa or Roger. And so it has to be a Slam. Either 2010 SF at the USO when he changed his fortunes by beating Roger, or AO 12 when he beat Nadal in 5.

Yes, the 2010 & 2011 USO SFs were instant classics, in their own way. The latter one especially, since Novak came back from two sets to love down, and that year Roger had the match points on his own serve, and still lost. Who can ever forget that incredible forehand to save the first match point?

 

[Mastoor]

I think no one mentioned AO 2008 final against Tsonga and last year WTF final against Fed.

 

[shawnbm]

I think no one mentioned AO 2008 final against Tsonga and last year WTF final against Fed.

Actually, I did mention last year's WTF final between Nole and Roger. There were breathtaking shots hit over the course of those two sets. So, I agree with you on that, and Novak was flying high in that AO final against the Frenchman.

 

[Denis]

I've been participating in a lot of various tennis boards over the years and there are tons of threads about Federer's and Nadal's respective best/peak matches but rarely do I find one about the Djoker and since I'm someone who loves to download tennis matches on youtube I would like to know what you consider the best matches Novak ever played. Not necessarily won, just his level of play.

I think we can all agree that the AO semi finals 2008 and 2011, the Rome and Madrid finals 2011, the Wimbledon final 2011 and the Montreal final 2007 are no-brainers when it comes to the Top 10 but apart from that? To be honest I haven't seen many of his matches over the years, probably around 100-150 at best since he turned pro, so feel free to name as many great performances from the guy as you can remember. It would be hugely appreciated.

Odd calls from Nole hardcore fans (like Cali's mention of the IW semi 07 Nadal-Roddick for example) are very welcomed and appreciated.

Hey Didi, what about creating a poll or something? That might be fun. I'd vote for either US Open semifinal against Federer 2011 or Wimbledon 2011 final.

 

[Didi]

Hey Didi, what about creating a poll or something? That might be fun. I'd vote for either US Open semifinal against Federer 2011 or Wimbledon 2011 final.

Good idea! I will wait a couple of days in order to get as many proposed matches as possible and then subsequently include a poll into this thread with the option of multiple choice if that's possible.

 

[Kieran]

Forget his best match - the best set I ever saw from Nole was the second set in his Wimbledon final against Nadal, the set he won 6-1. He was toying with Rafa, who was like a punch-drunk boxer who was out on his feet...

 

[Denis]

Forget his best match - the best set I ever saw from Nole was the second set in his Wimbledon final against Nadal, the set he won 6-1. He was toying with Rafa, who was like a punch-drunk boxer who was out on his feet...

I agree. To specify even further, my favorite point ever was at 30-15 2-0 up. You can see it on this video at 1 h 12:20

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrX7NmBcEhI

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

...are hopefully ahead of him.

 

[Mastoor]

Yes, that Wimbledon one was great. I like when he excludes Rafa from the game what no one else is capable of doing apparently.

However, do you remember Djokovic vs Svensson one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivHz5aL0iyo