No coincidence

[Moxie]

Mastoor, you need to get a sense of proportion about the Djokovic effect. In 2009, that Madrid SF was just one more nail in the coffin of Rafa's knees. Someone else could blame Verdasco for the AO SF that year, or him for playing Rotterdam, at all. In 2012, I agree with Kieran: it wasn't that tough, the final against Nole at RG. The reason for the poor results at Wimbledon was probably some knee, but certainly a stunning Rosol. I don't see how Djokovic features. And this year: yes, he had to play a long SF v. Novak, but he also played a lot of matches from the start of his comeback. None of Rafa's results or non-participation in those years come down to a single, exhausting match v. Djokovic. You're trying to push the point too hard.

Moxie, I don't think that I exaggerate and I don't think you fully remember what happened in 2009. Rafa's injury everyone mentioned throughout that year wasn't knee but pulled stomach muscle, they also at some stage started mentioning his parents divorcing that would be "emotional injury", I don't remember anyone mentioning knee as a problem in 2009 (other than his fans whose permanent mantra seems to be knee, but Rafa himself complained about stomach muscles).

While it is true that in years mentioned the guys who upset Nadal soon after he played long matches against No1e namely Fed & Sod in 2009, Rosol 2012, Darcis 2013, played great, I don't think that any of the losses mentioned was as taxing for him as those long clay matches with No1e (even though Rafa won them all).

Besides common thing in all the three years mentioned were exactly long matches with No1e, not losses to Sod, Rosol or Darcis, not even matches with Fed.

We both have reasons to hope that I am wrong about this thing and that the same thing that already happened twice is not repeating again this year. I don't want to see Fed scavenging another Wimbledon now when I hope No1e can win it and you don't want to see Rafa injured for the rest of the year like he was in 2009 and last year (not that I want it either).

You misremember 2009. Rafa wore braces under his knees from sometime in 2008 to well-into 2009.

He even said later that, when he took them off, everyone thought it was because his knees were better, while, in fact, it was because they had stopped helping. His problem was accumulated damage from tendonitis in the knees. That didn't come from one match. The ab tear that you remember came during the No.Am. HC swing, after he came back from the knee problems, and featured mostly only at the USO.

You can see the bandage on the ab here. (Alway fun to revisit.)

Again, I think you exaggerate the extent to which any of those Nole matches was the subsequent downfall of Nadal. The Madrid 09 SF was weeks before his loss to Soderling, and, as I've said, that was just part of a march to the end of his knees. (Your memory that it was abs is just wrong.) The 2012 RG final wasn't that hard. How many times to we have to tell you? Djokovic only featured for a set + and the rest was all Rafa, and it was played over 2 days. That was neither body- nor soul-destroying. Your best argument is the SF at RG this year. But still, I would make the argument for 'cumulative affect,' of so many matches played, not just the one, and Darcis' game, in the end.

I think you take away too much from Soderling, Rosol and Darcis by insinuating over-much Djokovic into the equation of Rafa's upsets. One, at least, of those matches wasn't really that taxing, and one was too far away to be considered direct influence.

 

[Johnsteinbeck]

got to say that i'm surprised Mastoor wasn't kidding well, whatever floats your Novak boat, i guess