NBA (whenever)...

[Murat B.]

Can I nitpick a bit? With his size, ability to see the court above everyone, the minutes he plays and the double teams he commends, Wemby should have way more assists in games. 3 per game is not acceptable. I know I know, the dude is crazy and all that but he is doing everything else beyond his years, why not assists? Because it is a mindset, like defending. If I am him, I am spending serious amount of time with Jokic this summer, picking his brain regarding court vision, how to identify patterns. Once he figures that part of the game, he will be the 5th player ever to score a quadruple double at some point.

Relax, I already said I was nitpicking, but I do feel strongly about this. The dude is a monster.

 

[brokenshoelace]

He didn't shoot the ball well. Not his best game for sure but no guard in the history of the game has been defended like this. In fact, this defense was literally illegal during the entirety of Jordan's career.

Strong side help if he goes to that side. Then he has to deal with Wemby if you go to the other side. Boxes & elbows if he operates in the middle of the floor. Just no space for him. Teams' entire game plans are predicated on stopping him in a way we haven't seen not even with Steph (obviously Warriors' motion offense and Steph's off the ball made that tougher to execute) so I don't know, it feels weird to push Hot Take like agendas. By the time he's getting the ball, he's had to wrestle 1-2 guys just to have it in his hands and then you don't have as much time on the shot clock plus the Alien waiting inside. It's a very particular match-up to draw any conclusions about a 2 time MVP and finals MVP just because we're upset people are prematurely comparing him to other all time greats. He was getting hacked a lot and the refs missed some huge calls but OKC doesn't get to complain about refs to be fair.

Meanwhile, I'm going to do an overreaction of my own and say barring injury, Wemby will go down as the greatest player of all time. I don't know what you do with a Yao Ming, with Shaq's dominance, Durant's game, Steph's range and Hakeem's defense.

 

[Federberg]

Can I nitpick a bit? With his size, ability to see the court above everyone, the minutes he plays and the double teams he commends, Wemby should have way more assists in games. 3 per game is not acceptable. I know I know, the dude is crazy and all that but he is doing everything else beyond his years, why not assists? Because it is a mindset, like defending. If I am him, I am spending serious amount of time with Jokic this summer, picking his brain regarding court vision, how to identify patterns. Once he figures that part of the game, he will be the 5th player ever to score a quadruple double at some point.

Relax, I already said I was nitpicking, but I do feel strongly about this. The dude is a monster.

you're not wrong. But he's what..? 22? Last year his shooting was was more inefficient. Now he's getting to the post more, as he should with that size. I suspect we haven't seen anywhere near the finished product yet. It's utterly terrifying to consider

 

[Federberg]

He didn't shoot the ball well. Not his best game for sure but no guard in the history of the game has been defended like this. In fact, this defense was literally illegal during the entirety of Jordan's career.

View attachment 10767
Strong side help if he goes to that side. Then he has to deal with Wemby if you go to the other side. Boxes & elbows if he operates in the middle of the floor. Just no space for him. Teams' entire game plans are predicated on stopping him in a way we haven't seen not even with Steph (obviously Warriors' motion offense and Steph's off the ball made that tougher to execute) so I don't know, it feels weird to push Hot Take like agendas. By the time he's getting the ball, he's had to wrestle 1-2 guys just to have it in his hands and then you don't have as much time on the shot clock plus the Alien waiting inside. It's a very particular match-up to draw any conclusions about a 2 time MVP and finals MVP just because we're upset people are prematurely comparing him to other all time greats. He was getting hacked a lot and the refs missed some huge calls but OKC doesn't get to complain about refs to be fair.

Meanwhile, I'm going to do an overreaction of my own and say barring injury, Wemby will go down as the greatest player of all time. I don't know what you do with a Yao Ming, with Shaq's dominance, Durant's game, Steph's range and Hakeem's defense.

well I agree wholeheartedly that Wemby will go down as the greatest player of all time. And no one will argue the point. And I bet he won't crown himself the greatest either. He's old school at heart and I love it. There's a spitefulness and pettiness about him that's so refreshing. However I completely disagree about the attention SGA gets being unique. Steph, Shaq and MJ received the same or more. And none of them flopped to excess. Obviously Shaq's not a guard so we can stick with Steph and MJ. Part of the reason why SGA gets the attention he does is because everyone knows his default counter-measure is to foul grift so it makes sense to take his space away in such a way that no single individual is put in foul trouble. The Spurs are just about the only team able to do it fairly comfortably.

 

[brokenshoelace]

well I agree wholeheartedly that Wemby will go down as the greatest player of all time. And no one will argue the point. And I bet he won't crown himself the greatest either. He's old school at heart and I love it. There's a spitefulness and pettiness about him that's so refreshing. However I completely disagree about the attention SGA gets being unique. Steph, Shaq and MJ received the same or more. And none of them flopped to excess. Obviously Shaq's not a guard so we can stick with Steph and MJ. Part of the reason why SGA gets the attention he does is because everyone knows his default counter-measure is to foul grift so it makes sense to take his space away in such a way that no single individual is put in foul trouble. The Spurs are just about the only team able to do it fairly comfortably.

It was literally impossible to guard MJ that way because at the time this was illegal defense. Teams were forced to square up man to man (zone was not allowed) and you could only help, double or triple if you're committing to do it ON THE BALL. So the way the Spurs are denying Shai the ball was literally illegal, meaning Jordan by the very rules of the game, could not have been defended this way. Instead, what you see is him getting the ball in his preferred spots first then teams double, which with his quickness and intelligence, often meant that he made his move (most likely baseline spin or over the shoulder fadeaway) before ever allowing the double to fully set. Defenses are incredibly more sophisticated nowadays so this is not some shot at MJ. It's just a factual state of the game, where defenses now are allowed to do things schematically that was literally banned in the past, and the game has evolved, coaches have gotten a lot smarter and have so much more data, analytics and history to build on. It's just the natural progression.

As for Shaq, there's a reason I said "guards" because he's a whole different animal altogether.

 

[Federberg]

It was literally impossible to guard MJ that way because at the time this was illegal defense. Teams were forced to square up man to man (zone was not allowed) and you could only help, double or triple if you're committing to do it ON THE BALL. So the way the Spurs are denying Shai the ball was literally illegal, meaning Jordan by the very rules of the game, could not have been defended this way. Instead, what you see is him getting the ball in his preferred spots first then teams double, which with his quickness and intelligence, often meant that he made his move (most likely baseline spin or over the shoulder fadeaway) before ever allowing the double to fully set. Defenses are incredibly more sophisticated nowadays so this is not some shot at MJ. It's just a factual state of the game, where defenses now are allowed to do things schematically that was literally banned in the past, and the game has evolved, coaches have gotten a lot smarter and have so much more data, analytics and history to build on. It's just the natural progression.

As for Shaq, there's a reason I said "guards" because he's a whole different animal altogether.

I think if you re-read what I wrote, you'll see I identified stars who garnered at least as much attention as SGA. Then I noted that Shaq wasn't a guard so I returned the focus to MJ and Steph in particular. My point was on 'attention'. Yes methods change over time, but attention is attention. When MJ was on ball the physicality he faced was crazy, we all know the Jordan Rules. It wasn't a refutation of the specific type of defence deployed against SGA, rather that teams have taken extraordinary steps against other great players too. I just believe that part of the reason for doing it, in SGA's case, is based on how he's allowed to play

 

[brokenshoelace]

I think if you re-read what I wrote, you'll see I identified stars who garnered at least as much attention as SGA. Then I noted that Shaq wasn't a guard so I returned the focus to MJ and Steph in particular. My point was on 'attention'. Yes methods change over time, but attention is attention. When MJ was on ball the physicality he faced was crazy, we all know the Jordan Rules. It wasn't a refutation of the specific type of defence deployed against SGA, rather that teams have taken extraordinary steps against other great players too. I just believe that part of the reason for doing it, in SGA's case, is based on how he's allowed to play

Methods do indeed change and each present its own unique challenges (SGA for example, is not getting clobbered in the paint the way Jordan was), but the extent to which defenses are more sophisticated nowadays, and they really are lightyears ahead of what things used to be, makes things not as straightforward as that. I'm sure Shai would absolutely love to be able to get to the right elbow before the double comes, where he can just take his near automatic mid range jumper. But modern rules allowing full ball denial at half court is a very unique challenge and I don't know a single player that's going to shoot consistently efficiently in a brutal playoff series against elite defenses while being guarded that way. The first time I recall seeing it anywhere near this extent was the way OKC guarded Luka in the 2024 series, and even though Dallas won, Luka averaged 24 points on 44% shooting. He had a to rely on his playmaking much more, and I don't think it's a coincidence we're seeing Shai put up career high assist numbers these playoffs. It's just one way to counter it, and I think that's why so much of modern basketball is built around players who can play-make off the dribble.

 

[Federberg]

Methods do indeed change and each present its own unique challenges (SGA for example, is not getting clobbered in the paint the way Jordan was), but the extent to which defenses are more sophisticated nowadays, and they really are lightyears ahead of what things used to be, makes things not as straightforward as that. I'm sure Shai would absolutely love to be able to get to the right elbow before the double comes, where he can just take his near automatic mid range jumper. But modern rules allowing full ball denial at half court is a very unique challenge and I don't know a single player that's going to shoot consistently efficiently in a brutal playoff series against elite defenses while being guarded that way. The first time I recall seeing it anywhere near this extent was the way OKC guarded Luka in the 2024 series, and even though Dallas won, Luka averaged 24 points on 44% shooting. He had a to rely on his playmaking much more, and I don't think it's a coincidence we're seeing Shai put up career high assist numbers these playoffs. It's just one way to counter it, and I think that's why so much of modern basketball is built around players who can play-make off the dribble.

Agreed. And that's what makes Joe Lacob and the Warriors front office so monumentally stupid. And Bob Myers is more guilty than the current GM Dunleavy. With the right pieces this could have been Steph's playground over the last 3 or 4 years. His shooting and gravity would have been especially equipped to handle these modern defensive schemes

 

[DarthFed]

He didn't shoot the ball well. Not his best game for sure but no guard in the history of the game has been defended like this. In fact, this defense was literally illegal during the entirety of Jordan's career.

View attachment 10767
Strong side help if he goes to that side. Then he has to deal with Wemby if you go to the other side. Boxes & elbows if he operates in the middle of the floor. Just no space for him. Teams' entire game plans are predicated on stopping him in a way we haven't seen not even with Steph (obviously Warriors' motion offense and Steph's off the ball made that tougher to execute) so I don't know, it feels weird to push Hot Take like agendas. By the time he's getting the ball, he's had to wrestle 1-2 guys just to have it in his hands and then you don't have as much time on the shot clock plus the Alien waiting inside. It's a very particular match-up to draw any conclusions about a 2 time MVP and finals MVP just because we're upset people are prematurely comparing him to other all time greats. He was getting hacked a lot and the refs missed some huge calls but OKC doesn't get to complain about refs to be fair.

Meanwhile, I'm going to do an overreaction of my own and say barring injury, Wemby will go down as the greatest player of all time. I don't know what you do with a Yao Ming, with Shaq's dominance, Durant's game, Steph's range and Hakeem's defense.

I won’t predict Wemby to be the GOAT because that would mean in my mind 7+ titles without losing a finals and that’s insanely hard to do. But if Wemby has a healthy 15+ year career I feel like he is a lock for top 5 ever. His defense alone is unique. We can talk about Jordan and other top 10 players as being great defenders but it’s not in the same realm of what Wemby will likely be when all is said and done. Wemby becoming a very good scorer, which in the modern game is 25+ and efficient shooting, makes his upside unlimited. But over MJ? I will believe that when I see it.

 

[DarthFed]

I do wonder if OKC loses this series and Wemby makes Chet look like a little boy, do the Thunder then enter the Giannis sweepstakes? I kind of want that to happen as OKC would likely be the best trade partner for the Bucks given their young players and draft assets. If Thunder get blown out in this series I think they definitely consider some big time moves. A close loss and maybe they don’t but who knows.

 

[the AntiPusher]

I won’t predict Wemby to be the GOAT because that would mean in my mind 7+ titles without losing a finals and that’s insanely hard to do. But if Wemby has a healthy 15+ year career I feel like he is a lock for top 5 ever. His defense alone is unique. We can talk about Jordan and other top 10 players as being great defenders but it’s not in the same realm of what Wemby will likely be when all is said and done. Wemby becoming a very good scorer, which in the modern game is 25+ and efficient shooting, makes his upside unlimited. But over MJ? I will believe that when I see it.

Jordan would attack Wimby’s body..he wouldn’t have an issue scoring over Wimby..His will was 2nd to none!

 

[DarthFed]

Cavs blow a 22 point lead with less than 8 minutes to go and it is heading to OT. Needless to say if they lose this game the series is going to be quickly over.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Cavs blow a 22 point lead with less than 8 minutes to go and it is heading to OT. Needless to say if they lose this game the series is going to be quickly over.

That’s horrendous coaching by Kenny A..they let Bronson loose like a rooster in a hen house and da Beard got exposed on defense..Dan Gilbert probably soiled in his pampers

 

[kskate2]

Serious choke job when NY couldn't find the bottom of the ocean with a 2 ton anchor....