NBA (whenever)...

[Federberg]

"He (SGA) could NEVER had made on the playgrounds in the USA.. we would have ran him home crying to his mama!!"

This was literally said in this very thread. The idea that one of the greatest talents we've ever seen would not have made it on the playgrounds in the USA is the type of dumb take only clueless American exceptionalism can produce. Nobody was calling you a casual...But a Warriors fan protesting the rules and crying about Steph's whistle when Draymond Green made a living on illegal screens which were never called is quite rich.

While you're at it I'd like to see you defend your lack of casualness (which nobody called you btw) for not realizing Lebron has the 8th highest ppg in NBA history, 2 full points more than Kobe and Steph.

bwhahaha! I don't care who you were calling a casual. I'm pretty damn sure your arrogance would encourage me to support whoever it was, hence I stepped up Like you're a pro or something. Get over yourself mate.

Hey I'm not going to act like the Draymond was a saint. He wasn't. But at least there was a sense of balance because of the grabbing on Steph. One could at least make the claim the refs were trying to achieve some sort of balance. After all there has never been an off ball mover like Steph, so it wasn't like the refs could do like for like. But what we have with OKC is something different. They are literally allowed to do things that the other side gets called on.

Oh and btw I am perfectly aware of where LeBron's ppg are in the all time rankings. My point... and I'll try to say this slowly for you.. is that the fact that he's leading in accumulation stats is deceptive. Normalising the data tells a better story. LeBron is a fantastic scorer, but he's no MJ. You were better served bringing up Kobe than Steph btw... Steph was posting his numbers in 3 quarters, and he wasn't fighting with coaches sitting him down when the game was won. Unlike a certain Lebron who'll insist on staying out there buffering up his numbers. Some people just focus on getting the win, others want to create a defence if they lose. They'll still be able to say..."did you see my numbers?"

 

[Federberg]

I still want to see any evidence of LeBron insulting Bird. LeBron has generally been respectful of the legends that came before him. Maybe he did say something and I missed it, but basically everything LeBron says and does is a big story since pretty much the entire US hates him. I know he has anointed himself as the GOAT but I don’t see that as him disrespecting others, just that Jupiter-sized ego of his. Now if you come after Bron then of course he is going to retort like what we are seeing with Ron Harper (speaking of ridiculous takes).

A lot of the crazy takes lately from modern players have been from Jason Williams, who sadly is still popular despite being in the running for most overrated player in history. Patrick Beverley is another well known clown with a podcast.

Actually I think another player (can't remember who) made the claim that Lebron did that during the All Stars one year. I'm not sure the claim is that he said anything. I think he just rolled his eyes when Bird left. While I wouldn't be shocked I don't hold that one against LeBron, not unless he comes out and confirms it. I think it's bad enough he basically encouraged stars not to participate in the slam dunk contest (not by saying anything, but by not participating himself) is a bad enough indictment

 

[DarthFed]

Actually I think another player (can't remember who) made the claim that Lebron did that during the All Stars one year. I'm not sure the claim is that he said anything. I think he just rolled his eyes when Bird left. While I wouldn't be shocked I don't hold that one against LeBron, not unless he comes out and confirms it. I think it's bad enough he basically encouraged stars not to participate in the slam dunk contest (not by saying anything, but by not participating himself) is a bad enough indictment

Stephen A apparently said LeBron gave Bird a side eye at the All Star game. I’d take that with a grain of salt coming from Bron’s biggest hater. Stephen A is now like a scorned lover.

As for the slam dunk contest…come on man, that is assigning him a ton of influence over other star players. What else are you going to hold against him? I don’t see how his decision not to participate would mean no other stars will do it. Also when you look at the mega stars the past 10+ years who would we even want to see participate aside from Giannis, Ant and Zion, the latter of which isn’t even a mega star player? And do you really think any of them decided not to participate because LeBron never did one?

 

[DarthFed]

Lebron never insulted Bird. He's smart enough to know better, and overall, he does respect those that came before him, even if he's said some disrespectful things about eras (but not singling out players) in retaliation, such as Giannis averaging 200 points if he played in the 70's or something like that.

Yes, I saw that interview and even then he wasn’t being that disrespectful. He was just responding to the whole “LeBron and these other players couldn’t survive the physicality of the 80’s or 90’s NBA” crap by stating the obvious; the game moves on. And Bron used a pretty good example I’d say despite the obvious hyperbole.

 

[Federberg]

Stephen A apparently said LeBron gave Bird a side eye at the All Star game. I’d take that with a grain of salt coming from Bron’s biggest hater. Stephen A is now like a scorned lover.

As for the slam dunk contest…come on man, that is assigning him a ton of influence over other star players. What else are you going to hold against him? I don’t see how his decision not to participate would mean no other stars will do it. Also when you look at the mega stars the past 10+ years who would we even want to see participate aside from Giannis, Ant and Zion, the latter of which isn’t even a mega star player? And do you really think any of them decided not to participate because LeBron never did one?

he set the template bro. Others followed. Guys like MJ were willing to put themselves out there, LeBron isn't. That's just a fact. If you don't want to hold him accountable that's fine, but it is what it is. At least Steph has put himself out there with the 3 point contest. Even the one against Sabrina was awesome. What makes him special is that he's willing to risk losing. I'm sorry but I don't see LeBron doing something like that. I just don't

 

[Federberg]

Stephen A apparently said LeBron gave Bird a side eye at the All Star game. I’d take that with a grain of salt coming from Bron’s biggest hater. Stephen A is now like a scorned lover.

Ah! Well there it is. Like you I don't assign much credibility to that either. I find neither of them credible. Just like I didn't think much of McAfee and Lebron shitting on Windhorst. A media guy who's been one of LeBron's most fervent crotch gobblers over the years. On this side of the water we call guys who throw cheap punches at guys like Windhorst cunts

 

[DarthFed]

Ah! Well there it is. Like you I don't assign much credibility to that either. I find neither of them credible. Just like I didn't think much of McAfee and Lebron shitting on Windhorst. A media guy who's been one of LeBron's most fervent crotch gobblers over the years. On this side of the water we call guys who throw cheap punches at guys like Windhorst cunts

Don’t get me started on Windhorst. Fuck that guy. He is a joke of a reporter who can’t possibly find a way to be neutral. Like when he was literally whining that Kyrie didn’t get traded to the Lakers in 2023 and the team would now not be good enough to compete for a title. Or his coverage on Giannis trade rumors. I don’t know what McAfee or LeBron said about him recently but it was probably warranted lol. The most I remember is LeBron basically saying he has nothing to do with Windhorst and of course the big boy’s feelings were hurt.

 

[brokenshoelace]

bwhahaha! I don't care who you were calling a casual. I'm pretty damn sure your arrogance would encourage me to support whoever it was, hence I stepped up Like you're a pro or something. Get over yourself mate.

Hey I'm not going to act like the Draymond was a saint. He wasn't. But at least there was a sense of balance because of the grabbing on Steph. One could at least make the claim the refs were trying to achieve some sort of balance. After all there has never been an off ball mover like Steph, so it wasn't like the refs could do like for like. But what we have with OKC is something different. They are literally allowed to do things that the other side gets called on.

Oh and btw I am perfectly aware of where LeBron's ppg are in the all time rankings. My point... and I'll try to say this slowly for you.. is that the fact that he's leading in accumulation stats is deceptive. Normalising the data tells a better story. LeBron is a fantastic scorer, but he's no MJ. You were better served bringing up Kobe than Steph btw... Steph was posting his numbers in 3 quarters, and he wasn't fighting with coaches sitting him down when the game was won. Unlike a certain Lebron who'll insist on staying out there buffering up his numbers. Some people just focus on getting the win, others want to create a defence if they lose. They'll still be able to say..."did you see my numbers?"

You have a terrific ability to become hysterical over the most minor of inconvenience. And yeah, someone saying that arguably the best professional basketball player in the world would not have made it in the playgrounds is a dumb, naive, clueless take. Not to mention arrogant. If this encourages you to support whoever it was that made it, you're only proving that you're driven by emotions over logic and knowledge, which you know, explains a lot...

Anyway, as far as basketball goes, yeah Steph has one of the worst whistles of all time among star players. Can't deny that. But Draymond was way more than just "not a saint" and given how much the Warriors' motion offense was reliant on off the ball screens for Steph, they benefited just as much as OKC is benefitting from the leeway vis-a-vis their physicality. I'm not even referring to Draymond's dirty play. I'm talking about things that happened on a possession to possession basis.

Everyone gets to play physical basketball especially in the playoffs. OKC have figured that the refs can't call everything, so they play extra physical. The real reason they're "allowed to get away with things others don't" is they have about half a dozen elite defenders, so they're able to do it in way that is way more consistent than any other team, since whatever the rotations, there are at least 3-4 elite defenders on the floor. I'm all for a rule change re: foul baiting, but to claim the NBA is letting some small market team get away with a brand of physical play that is somehow prohibited for any other team is the kind of uninformed casual take that fails to actually assess what's happening and why.

Re: Steph's ppg. He sat out 4th quarters in one season. Saying Lebron stat pads his SCORING numbers of all things just proves you haven't watched the guy. He's been playing for 23 years. If anything he's held back on scoring while inflating his stats in other categories. Again, casual takes are easy to shoot down.

 

[Federberg]

Don’t get me started on Windhorst. Fuck that guy. He is a joke of a reporter who can’t possibly find a way to be neutral. Like when he was literally whining that Kyrie didn’t get traded to the Lakers in 2023 and the team would now not be good enough to compete for a title. Or his coverage on Giannis trade rumors. I don’t know what McAfee or LeBron said about him recently but it was probably warranted lol. The most I remember is LeBron basically saying he has nothing to do with Windhorst and of course the big boy’s feelings were hurt.

lol! Well you know as a Warriors fan I'm no fan of Windhorst. He was out there crying for Draymond to be suspended in 2016 so he can totally fk off. But he's been carrying water for LeBron for years

 

[brokenshoelace]

Also, the whole Lebron is a better scorer than Jordan seems like a manufactured take honestly. I'm sure some people have claimed it, but it's nothing that ever got any traction, and for good reason.

 

[DarthFed]

lol! Well you know as a Warriors fan I'm no fan of Windhorst. He was out there crying for Draymond to be suspended in 2016 so he can totally fk off. But he's been carrying water for LeBron for years

Yes and that LeBron-McAfee interview was poking fun of the fact Windhorst thought he was LeBron’s best friend, and LeBron has called him “weird” before. I think that was the most he’s gone after Windhorst but it’s annoying that POS has a job with ESPN and everyone knows it’s because he was/is a LeBron fanboy.

 

[Federberg]

You have a terrific ability to become hysterical over the most minor of inconvenience. And yeah, someone saying that arguably the best professional basketball player in the world would not have made it in the playgrounds is a dumb, naive, clueless take. Not to mention arrogant. If this encourages you to support whoever it was that made it, you're only proving that you're driven by emotions over logic and knowledge, which you know, explains a lot...

Anyway, as far as basketball goes, yeah Steph has one of the worst whistles of all time among star players. Can't deny that. But Draymond was way more than just "not a saint" and given how much the Warriors' motion offense was reliant on off the ball screens for Steph, they benefited just as much as OKC is benefitting from the leeway vis-a-vis their physicality. I'm not even referring to Draymond's dirty play. I'm talking about things that happened on a possession to possession basis.

Everyone gets to play physical basketball especially in the playoffs. OKC have figured that the refs can't call everything, so they play extra physical. The real reason they're "allowed to get away with things others don't" is they have about half a dozen elite defenders, so they're able to do it in way that is way more consistent than any other team, since whatever the rotations, there are at least 3-4 elite defenders on the floor. I'm all for a rule change re: foul baiting, but to claim the NBA is letting some small market team get away with a brand of physical play that is somehow prohibited for any other team is the kind of uninformed casual take that fails to actually assess what's happening and why.

Re: Steph's ppg. He sat out 4th quarters in one season. Saying Lebron stat pads his SCORING numbers of all things just proves you haven't watched the guy. He's been playing for 23 years. If anything he's held back on scoring while inflating his stats in other categories. Again, casual takes are easy to shoot down.

no mate.. YOU are arrogant. Nothing wrong with it. I can be too. But for you it's part of your whole self righteous schtick. Anyone claiming they could outplay SGA in a school playground is obviously delusional so I'm not sure why you're even wasting your time with that. I actually agree with a lot of the basketball stuff you just mentioned. I'll even say this about Draymond, in a way he does what the whole OKC team does. He dials it up to 15 so that he creates a standard that forces the refs to give him a unique whistle. Frankly it's stressed me out for years. He drives me nuts. I'm not going to say that because Draymond gets away with it, it's ok. It's not. But something needs to be done about what OKC are allowed to get away with because it's egregious. Frankly it blows my mind that Lu Dort hasn't been suspended for some of his antics yet. At this stage Draymond was getting punished and rightly so.

Lol! Proves what? If you form conclusions like that, then it's no surprise you spout nonsense so often I've watched Lebron stay out when the starters are being rested often. Clear and obvious stat padding. Building up his stats is at least as important to him as actually winning. I used to wonder why until I started to understand that he's not just building up numbers he's building up a defence for failure. That's ok I guess. I think he's easily a top 10 player ever, but he's far from a GOAT. Can't be a GOAT with a losing finals record. You just can't, and that's my main issue where Lebron is concerned. It would be nuts to deny his greatness otherwise. Frankly any of those guys in the top 15 - 20 spots are undeniably great.

 

[Federberg]

Yes and that LeBron-McAfee interview was poking fun of the fact Windhorst thought he was LeBron’s best friend, and LeBron has called him “weird” before. I think that was the most he’s gone after Windhorst but it’s annoying that POS has a job with ESPN and everyone knows it’s because he was/is a LeBron fanboy.

I would like to see the recording of where Windhorst ever said he was LeBron's best friend. I find the guy annoying (Windhorst), but what I do know is that for years, while reporting on LeBron, he's always been at pains to state that he doesn't have special access, nor does he claim any friendship. To me that implication was a high school level insult that was unworthy of both McAfee and LeBron

 

[PhiEaglesfan712]

LeBron James has 13,450 more points, 6,899 more rebounds & 7,456 more assists than Michael Jordan in 663 more games.

"Longevity" you say. Not impressive.

To match LeBron's current career totals, MJ would have to come out of retirement (again) and average the following over 663 games:
20.3 PPG - 10.4 RPG - 11.3 APG - 65.8% TS

MJ would have to produce like a more efficient version of Magic Johnson for over 8 STRAIGHT SEASONS, on top of what he already did, to match LeBron's career.

LeBron will never be as loved as Jordan, but he is the superior player.

 

[DarthFed]

I would like to see the recording of where Windhorst ever said he was LeBron's best friend. I find the guy annoying (Windhorst), but what I do know is that for years, while reporting on LeBron, he's always been at pains to state that he doesn't have special access, nor does he claim any friendship. To me that implication was a high school level insult that was unworthy of both McAfee and LeBron

Windhorst acted like he was LeBron’s best friend and knows everything about him including his thought process. I think that’d eventually get annoying to even the average star, now add in we are talking LeBron and I get it. Besides, he just called him weird, it could be a lot worse lol.

 

[DarthFed]

LeBron James has 13,450 more points, 6,899 more rebounds & 7,456 more assists than Michael Jordan in 663 more games.

"Longevity" you say. Not impressive.

To match LeBron's current career totals, MJ would have to come out of retirement (again) and average the following over 663 games:
20.3 PPG - 10.4 RPG - 11.3 APG - 65.8% TS

MJ would have to produce like a more efficient version of Magic Johnson for over 8 STRAIGHT SEASONS, on top of what he already did, to match LeBron's career.

LeBron will never be as loved as Jordan, but he is the superior player.

Way different players in way different eras, particularly when we are talking TS%. Jordan still has the highest career PER unless Jokic has overtaken him, and that’s insane given the current era, usage %, etc. Jordan also has a higher VORP on a per game basis than LeBron which to me is a badly overlooked analytic.

And, as mentioned before, we are talking greatest, not best. Drop MJ in the current league, with no hand check and overall lack of defense, longer careers with advances in sports medicine, but with better athletes on average guarding him…who knows how it turns out. I do think MJ would have had to adapt and become a better 3 point shooter, and if you know anything about MJ, he would’ve been able to do that.

But that’s enough about “best”. I still think Jordan is the greatest athlete I’ve seen in my years of watching sports and it’s not particularly close. Could there be some nostalgia there? I suppose.

 

[Federberg]

Way different players in way different eras, particularly when we are talking TS%. Jordan still has the highest career PER unless Jokic has overtaken him, and that’s insane given the current era, usage %, etc. Jordan also has a higher VORP on a per game basis than LeBron which to me is a badly overlooked analytic.

And, as mentioned before, we are talking greatest, not best. Drop MJ in the current league, with no hand check and overall lack of defense, longer careers with advances in sports medicine, but with better athletes on average guarding him…who knows how it turns out. I do think MJ would have had to adapt and become a better 3 point shooter, and if you know anything about MJ, he would’ve been able to do that.

But that’s enough about “best”. I still think Jordan is the greatest athlete I’ve seen in my years of watching sports and it’s not particularly close. Could there be some nostalgia there? I suppose.

I don't think it's nostalgia. MJ was scoring the way he was in an era when the paint was crowded and brutal. There's simply no evidence he couldn't have improved his 3 point shooting if he wanted to. It was counter to the way he played, yet in the playoffs he was often far more efficient with it. Some of the stuff that players are allowed to do today might make them look more skilled, but they get away with stuff now that would have been called carrying or travelling back in that period. And yet... MJ was able to score higher than players are today. Anyone who can't add 1 + 1 to get to the obvious '2' that MJ's scoring in this era would be even better is kidding themselves. I won't insult them by calling them a casual