Mutua Madrid Open 2017 Clay Masters

[DarthFed]

Carol, you probably can't be as objective regarding Novak, but his play in the 1st set was subpar. He's picked it up a bit in the 2nd set, but still not consistent enough to trouble a top 10 player.

I'm not watching the match but I have seen Novak playing in the previous matches and he looked very motivated, shouting and playing well. Maybe you (like others) are the one who doesn't like to give Nadal too much credit?

You mean like when he barely survived against Nicko Almagro lol. This is the worst tennis Nole has played since 2006. He might not finish top 5 this year and there aren't even 5 others on tour doing anything of note.

 

[mightyjeditribble]

^ You don't continually raise the level of your stamina and game as you get older so if he's trying to do that legally it's head scratching.

I agree. Been saying it since I watched Federer in Oz, actually...

Leave it be Kieran, it's being really really really really boring and tedious and it's against forum rules.

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[Front242]

^ Btw, I don't actually like that Novak is playing so badly as I think it makes for view poor viewing for fans of tennis, just that your post basically says it all. No one sane could possibly say Novak is playing well right now given his past achievements. He probably wouldn't have made it past Nishikori if he was fit and hadn't retired. Apart from the Todd Martin serve phase of his career, nothing has been worse than this.

 

[DarthFed]

I saw the first set and it is the same Nole we've seen all year. He has lost a step and a half and there is no power on his shots. He might not be there mentally but that's his biggest issue. Becker mentioned earlier that he has not been working hard and there may be some truth in that. He has to find his motivation if possible or his career will be over

 

[mightyjeditribble]

^ There you go, see. It's plain as day obvious to me anyway.

Not sure I really know what you're saying but spurious and baseless accusations and innuendo against Novak or Rafa is just as boring as it is against Fed.

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[BIG3]

If the match process reversed, Nole shoewed some brilliance in the first set and ended with horrible performance like the first few games of 1st set. The victory wouldn't be as sweet for Rafa, and Nole would have been even more devastated.

Nole didn't or couldn't click reset button, but please give more credit to Rafa, he controlled the match from every department. I won't blame Nole for ill timing rush to the net, at least he tried something different. He knew he couldn't out rally Rafa today.

The most troubling sign is that Nole showed little anger or frustration during the match. He is still very gracious in defeat, but no more fire in belly to fight the every single point

 

[El Dude]

The takeaway for me from this thread is that Front thinks that somehow everyone is juicing but Roger, Kieran can't resist with his Roger jabs, Carol thinks that Rafa beat a near-peak Novak and her fangirlism reached a new level that she even annoyed kskate2.

Good times.

 

[Front242]

^ There you go, see. It's plain as day obvious to me anyway.

Not sure I really know what you're saying but spurious and baseless accusations and innuendo against Novak or Rafa is just as boring as it is against Fed.

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Look, you'd want to be naive to not think they ALL use whatever they can get away with legally. I'm merely saying it's possible whatever Novak was taking is now banned. He's been very vocally different in his take on the Sharapova incident than others so maybe he was taking something similar that was actually legal and performance enhancing but is now banned and he's therefore quite noticeably diminished. He's slower and therefore out of position, mistiming shots, late to get in position due to lost speed which may or not be age related or maybe, just maybe it's because of what I said. He's also making a ton more errors, has lousy shot selection and just looks beatable by anyone halfway good. That's quite a steep decline given players are now still way sharper and fitter in their 30's and he's only 29 as of now.

 

[the AntiPusher]

The takeaway for me from this thread is that Front thinks that somehow everyone is juicing but Roger, Kieran can't resist with his Roger jabs, Carol thinks that Rafa beat a near-peak Novak and her fangirlism reached a new level that she even annoyed kskate2.

Good times.

El dude You fell to mentioned that AP predicted that the practicing sessions against Novak juiced Rafa's confidence and added stamina to his bh and depth to his fh

 

[Kieran]

You'd think by the way Kieran is talking that Roger played a 5+ hour semi and was fresh as a daisy 2 days later in another match that went 5 sets and 4+ hours. Roger got the extra day off after the semi making the 5 setter a non-issue. And against Nishi he went 5 and then faced a pretty underwhelming S&V player in Zverev.

Roger has adopted an even more aggressive mindset and few opponents are even moving the old man around the court at all. He isn't moving better than even 2 years ago, he's just playing better. Also keep in mind that Roger had underachieved for most of his 30's, the haters just hoped he'd suck even worse.

Or you'd think that Roger was only 23, and not almost 36?

It's really funny watching fedfans scanning this rejuvenation. "Ugh, he improved his backhand, and hits more aggressive, which takes nothing outta him, see? Oh, and although his opponent plays for 3 hours against him, Wodger is only on court for 35 minutes cos he plays fast." :lolz:

^ You don't continually raise the level of your stamina and game as you get older so if he's trying to do that legally it's head scratching.

I agree. Been saying it since I watched Federer in Oz, actually...

Leave it be Kieran, it's being really really really really boring and tedious and it's against forum rules.

Buddy, I would normally agree, but we all saw the memo. There are no forum rules anymore. There is no TF after tomorrow.

As for today, I really enjoyed watching Rafa looking alpha again. He's been in Prince Hamlet mode for too long now, and though it's understandable, and great players suffering a crisis of confidence is often more interesting than watching them in their pomp, sometimes it's great to watch them play tennis in their pomp, too. This is maybe Rafa's last shot at a Big Year - in the natural course of things, players in their early- to mid-30's only gamely make up the numbers - so I applaud his attitude, his defiance, his incredible shot-making.

I only hope he isn't overplaying before the important event, which is RG. I'd hate for him to miss Rome though, because my buddy JB is going to see him there. Otheriwse, I'd be rooting for him to nab the title tomorrow, and take the rest of next week off...

 

[Shivashish Sarkar]

Not at all disappointed from the second set of Novak. He had his good moments in the set and was really close to getting back to serve in the set. I am saying these things on the basis of the highlight reels uploaded already. It was fun to see the solutions Novak was trying to come up with in the match. His typical small angle shots were there that he executes against Nadal.

Certainly, there's hope for him going forward. Progress has been made already. He should be happy he got 360 points here and that will help him better his YTD rank.

Nadal is producing vintage Rafa clay court tennis. Seems primed to win the title tomorrow. It would be nice to see Thiem challenge him though.

 

[Kieran]

The takeaway for me from this thread is that Front thinks that somehow everyone is juicing but Roger, Kieran can't resist with his Roger jabs, Carol thinks that Rafa beat a near-peak Novak and her fangirlism reached a new level that she even annoyed kskate2.

Good times.

El dude You fell to mentioned that AP predicted that the practicing sessions against Novak juiced Rafa's confidence and added stamina to his bh and depth to his fh

Rafa was practicing with Novak? That'd be unusual, no? or am I reading you wrong?

By the way, didn't Novak's box look very sparse today? Just Pepe and Novak's brother. The brother looked confused and bewildered. Pepe looked like he'd levitated a couple of times. Only an inch or two, mind, so it could have been just wind...

 

[DarthFed]

There hasn't been a huge show of endurance though from Fed. The Aussie Open was his first tournament in 7 months, naturally he was well rested. And his legs weren't really tested by Zverev after the 5 setter vs. Nishi and then he got an extra day off before the final. The only real big show of endurance was consecutive tough 3 setters vs Berd and Kyrgios.

And it's a fact that he is more aggressive with the backhand and ROS. No point denying it, that's why he has been dominating Wafa this year.

 

[Kieran]

There hasn't been a huge show of endurance though from Fed. The Aussie Open was his first tournament in 7 months, naturally he was well rested. And his legs weren't really tested by Zverev after the 5 setter vs. Nishi and then he got an extra day off before the final. The only real big show of endurance was consecutive tough 3 setters vs Berd and Kyrgios.

And it's a fact that he is more aggressive with the backhand and ROS. No point denying it, that's why he has been dominating Wafa this year.

Players don't get more aggressive aged 35, bro. Their bodies aren't that anymore. And taking 7 months off wouldn't leave him "well rested", it would leave him rusty. So would age. His reflexes would be even less sharp than they've been since 2012. And he played 3 five setters in 8 days in Oz. When did he ever endure so well as he is now? Answer: never. Played a long match against Berdy, but the next day he showed no ill effects against Nick. That goes to 3 hours and less than 2 days later, he's dancing round the court like an elf. Buddy, let me stay within the rules and say, "that's quite remarkable."

And by the way, this only came up because front was unwisely attacking Djoker for allegedly juicing, as if they all do it, except the oldest man in the room... :cover

 

[Kieran]

The other semi starts at 9.30pm local time, and the final is 6pm tomorrow. What kinda jackass schedules these things? Seriously, if Thiem-Cuevas goes to 3 hours, how unfair is that? :nono

 

[Front242]

There hasn't been a huge show of endurance though from Fed. The Aussie Open was his first tournament in 7 months, naturally he was well rested. And his legs weren't really tested by Zverev after the 5 setter vs. Nishi and then he got an extra day off before the final. The only real big show of endurance was consecutive tough 3 setters vs Berd and Kyrgios.

And it's a fact that he is more aggressive with the backhand and ROS. No point denying it, that's why he has been dominating Wafa this year.

Players don't get more aggressive aged 35, bro. Their bodies aren't that anymore. And taking 7 months off wouldn't leave him "well rested", it would leave him rusty. So would age. His reflexes would be even less sharp than they've been since 2012. And he played 3 five setters in 8 days in Oz. When did he ever endure so well as he is now? Answer: never. Played a long match against Berdy, but the next day he showed no ill effects against Nick. That goes to 3 hours and less than 2 days later, he's dancing round the court like an elf. Buddy, let me stay within the rules and say, "that's quite remarkable."

And by the way, this only came up because front was unwisely attacking Djoker for allegedly juicing, as if they all do it, except the oldest man in the room... :cover

No, Kieran I said they ALL take whatever they can get away with which is 100% true. Roger played Hopman Cup first so that's why he wasn't rusty btw..

It was not a long match against Berdych as the points were all short and not draining. His reflexes were sharp as a knife because (A) he was practicing very hard prior to his comeback with Pouille and (B) he got in some very useful tough matches in Hopman Cup as mentioned. And finally (C) of course you can get more aggressive at ANY age. What exactly is there to stop someone taking a crack at a return harder than usual or going for winners instead of grinding rallies lol? It's actually called common sense.

 

[Kieran]

There hasn't been a huge show of endurance though from Fed. The Aussie Open was his first tournament in 7 months, naturally he was well rested. And his legs weren't really tested by Zverev after the 5 setter vs. Nishi and then he got an extra day off before the final. The only real big show of endurance was consecutive tough 3 setters vs Berd and Kyrgios.

And it's a fact that he is more aggressive with the backhand and ROS. No point denying it, that's why he has been dominating Wafa this year.

Players don't get more aggressive aged 35, bro. Their bodies aren't that anymore. And taking 7 months off wouldn't leave him "well rested", it would leave him rusty. So would age. His reflexes would be even less sharp than they've been since 2012. And he played 3 five setters in 8 days in Oz. When did he ever endure so well as he is now? Answer: never. Played a long match against Berdy, but the next day he showed no ill effects against Nick. That goes to 3 hours and less than 2 days later, he's dancing round the court like an elf. Buddy, let me stay within the rules and say, "that's quite remarkable."

And by the way, this only came up because front was unwisely attacking Djoker for allegedly juicing, as if they all do it, except the oldest man in the room... :cover

No, Kieran I said they ALL take whatever they can get away with which is 100% true. Roger played Hopman Cup first so that's why he wasn't rusty btw..

It was not a long match against Berdych as the points were all short and not draining. His reflexes were sharp as a knife because (A) he was practicing very hard prior to his comeback with Pouille and (B) he got in some very useful tough matches in Hopman Cup as mentioned. And finally (C) of course you can get more aggressive at ANY age. What exactly is there to stop someone taking a crack at a return harder than usual or going for winners instead of grinding rallies lol? It's actually called common sense.

It's FUBAR, bro, you ever hear it called that?

What stops older player becoming more aggressive is age. It's quite simple, actually. They can try, but they are no longer young. That's why players retire? Because they get older? And age slows us, makes our reflexes less sharp, and makes it more difficult for us to recover from aggressive actions. Makes it harder for players to play long matches. Otherwise Sampras would still be winning Wimbledon. It's not easy to play aggressive tennis, bro. It takes it outta players. Old age is why players decline - it's not the time when they're able to just add aggression and stamina to their repertoire.

There's never been a 35 year old athlete who suddenly turned the clock back so well, and played as if they're ten years younger. Not in any sport. Unless you can name one for me?

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Carol and Moxie,if you can get highlights of Rafa playing Goffin yesterday it was one of the best matches so far this year,great shot making by both players,when Rafa is hitting his fhand with ease down the line,I know he is feeling confident.Enjoyed the win today btw

 

[10isfan]

I didn't bother watching Nadal v Djoke. Let's hope Thiem makes the final because Cuevas vs Nadal won't be interesting.

 

[Kieran]

I didn't bother watching Nadal v Djoke. Let's hope Thiem makes the final because Cuevas vs Nadal won't be interesting.

I agree, although as I said above, the scheduling of the second semi is a joke, and not one that either Thiem or Cuevas will find particularly funny...