Murray Schmurray

[lacatch]

The media has been hyping Andy all summer--he's going to threaten Djokovic, etc. He had a great summer winning Wimbledon (not having to play Djokovic or Federer) and the Olympics (same). But at the US Open, he gets undone by a malfunctioning PA system and inspired play by Nishikori. I'll believe in Murray when he starts beating his top rivals on a regular basis. He's a solid top 3 or 4 player--period--who will win when the tennis gods are on his side as they were during the summer.

 

[Rational National]

The media has been hyping Andy all summer--he's going to threaten Djokovic, etc. He had a great summer winning Wimbledon (not having to play Djokovic or Federer) and the Olympics (same). But at the US Open, he gets undone by a malfunctioning PA system and inspired play by Nishikori. I'll believe in Murray when he starts beating his top rivals on a regular basis. He's a solid top 3 or 4 player--period--who will win when the tennis gods are on his side as they were during the summer.

"Aye good yin son" :clap

Played garbage against an inspired Nishikori - suffered with the heavy indoor conditions and yet still only went down 7-5 in the 5th. Clearly the 2nd best player in the world - nothing changed after yesterdays defeat.

 

[Fiero425]

The media has been hyping Andy all summer--he's going to threaten Djokovic, etc. He had a great summer winning Wimbledon (not having to play Djokovic or Federer) and the Olympics (same). But at the US Open, he gets undone by a malfunctioning PA system and inspired play by Nishikori. I'll believe in Murray when he starts beating his top rivals on a regular basis. He's a solid top 3 or 4 player--period--who will win when the tennis gods are on his side as they were during the summer.

"Aye good yin son" :clap

Played garbage against an inspired Nishikori - suffered with the heavy indoor conditions and yet still only went down 7-5 in the 5th. Clearly the 2nd best player in the world - nothing changed after yesterdays defeat.

No argument there; he's definitely 2nd in so many ways! Hopefully the hype will stop until he actually does something in a major against his real rivals to the #1 ranking! :nono :angel: :dodgy: :cover

 

[BIG3]

Rafa dethroned Roger in 08 RG-SW19. Nole dethroned Rafa in 6 finals of different surfaces in 2011. Murray's run is too short. He did a good job this summer, but it is nothing more than 2012 summer. He beat prime Roger and Nole in finals then. He is more media hyped now, simply because of Fedal slide, only Nole on his way to No.1.

In the context of competition, Murray of 2012 summer is better than 2016. The same to Nole, his 2011 is more amazing than 2015.

 

[Kieran]

The bloke is the Wimbledon champ! R/up in both Oz and Paris. Won the Olympics, which they all were screaming mad for. I think he's having a very good year...

 

[Fiero425]

Rafa dethroned Roger in 08 RG-SW19. Nole dethroned Rafa in 6 finals of different surfaces in 2011. Murray's run is too short. He did a good job this summer, but it is nothing more than 2012 summer. He beat prime Roger and Nole in finals then. He is more media hyped now, simply because of Fedal slide, only Nole on his way to No.1.

In the context of competition, Murray of 2012 summer is better than 2016. The same to Nole, his 2011 is more amazing than 2015.

People may think of 2011 to be "the season" to be revered and noted more than 2015, but the latter was more profitable; an extra Masters (6), was in 8 Masters' finals of tourneys he played, more $$ (20M+), and took the YEC accumulating more points than anyone else setting records that may never be broken! I think 2011 will be right up there since he took 3 majors, 5 Masters, and defeated his top rival in 6 of those finals! :clap :angel: :dodgy:

 

[El Dude]

Holy hyperbole, Batman (or lacatch). This sort of talk only makes sense if people are suddenly thinking Andy is dethroning Novak as the new best in the game. I don't hear anyone saying that.

But let's also not under-appreciate him. As I wrote in another thread, there's an argument to be made that Andy--especially if he wins just one more Slam--is the best player of the Open Era with less than six Slam titles.

What makes him so interesting is that it is hard to crystalize him in our minds. Is he great or just very good? To me he is the definition of a "near-great."

 

[Kieran]

He's better than the rest, but not as good as the best...

 

[Fiero425]

Holy hyperbole, Batman (or lacatch). This sort of talk only makes sense if people are suddenly thinking Andy is dethroning Novak as the new best in the game. I don't hear anyone saying that.

But let's also not under-appreciate him. As I wrote in another thread, there's an argument to be made that Andy--especially if he wins just one more Slam--is the best player of the Open Era with less than six Slam titles.

What makes him so interesting is that it is hard to crystalize him in our minds. Is he great or just very good? To me he is the definition of a "near-great."

...but nowhere near as great as Edberg, Becker, Agassi, or Lendl! He has more majors than Safin, Kafelnikov, Rafter, Rio, and others who acquired the #1 ranking; but still waiting! uzzled :nono :angel: :dodgy: :cover

 

[lacatch]

He's better than the rest, but not as good as the best...

Very well put :clap

 

[lacatch]

Holy hyperbole, Batman (or lacatch). This sort of talk only makes sense if people are suddenly thinking Andy is dethroning Novak as the new best in the game. I don't hear anyone saying that.

But let's also not under-appreciate him. As I wrote in another thread, there's an argument to be made that Andy--especially if he wins just one more Slam--is the best player of the Open Era with less than six Slam titles.

What makes him so interesting is that it is hard to crystalize him in our minds. Is he great or just very good? To me he is the definition of a "near-great."

While unfortunately I can't easily find a quote, I definitely remember reading numerous columns by tennis pundits postulating that Murray had finally arrived, that he was ready to challenge Novak, etc. At the end of the day, he might beat Novak when the latter is injured/off his game, but when both playing well Novak is just plain better.

 

[mrzz]

Murray is surely the more consistent player of the "rest", but I would rather wait till all is said and done to give a final judgment on who is the best. Two players, IMO, can produce a level of play distinctly higher than anything Murray can produce, Wawrinka and del Potro.

Given that, as I said, Murray is far more consistent, he is quite a bit ahead as of now, but if in some years the slam count changes in favour of anyone of those, I would happily debate on who is the best.

 

[Puppet Master]

Murray is just there to represent how an emotionally weak person just can't compete with the big dogs. As Kieran said, he is better than the rest but not as good as the best.
He lets his emotions get in the way, he doesn't think clearly and doesn't have a winning mentality when facing an opponent who can step up.
Also, this has to be said. I am in no way defending him, he is an absolute chump, but it is what it is. His forehand is crap. It's a pile of dog crap, on top of a pile of cat crap. Garbage. Even Novak, who doesn't have the world's best forehand is leagues above Andy in that regard, it's not even funny. I just don't get it. It's a terrible shot, conisdering how good his bh is. His two hander is certainly one of the best ever, but it's not enough of a weapon to let him get away with that awful forehand. I want someone to make a serious thread about this. What he gets wrong, and why is it such a bad stroke. Literally half of the top 50 guys have better forehands than him. Anyone with me on this?
( I shudder to imagine what would happen to the tour right now if you gave him Rafa's prime forehand, or Federer's.... Oh lord what would that be?)

 

[Luxilon Borg]

The media has been hyping Andy all summer--he's going to threaten Djokovic, etc. He had a great summer winning Wimbledon (not having to play Djokovic or Federer) and the Olympics (same). But at the US Open, he gets undone by a malfunctioning PA system and inspired play by Nishikori. I'll believe in Murray when he starts beating his top rivals on a regular basis. He's a solid top 3 or 4 player--period--who will win when the tennis gods are on his side as they were during the summer.

You have it partly right. The "hype" this summer was warranted. Miserable was the best player in the world right after the French Open, by a long shot.

You underestimate his skills...by a long shot. His speed, backhand, first serve, and shot selection is just SICK. Not to mention his off the charts fitness and work ethic.

The PROBLEM is..those massive strengths are balanced out by glaring weakness. His forehand..second serve (which HAS improved btw), court positioning...AND...most of all his extremely negative mental approach. The amount of energy drain he suffers from his absurd Hamlet act is sad. I would never ever accept his barking at the camp if I worked for him. I would tell him to shove it where the sun don't shine.. He is disrespectful and a horrible role model. He acts just like the spoiled juniors in the under 14s.

Miserable's worst habits come out under pressure..rolling the forehand, pushing the second serve, the chirping, playing the victim...a fucking butterfly for chrisake...

And he had the gaul to claim his mental approach has NOT been a factor in being the least accomplished of the Big 4. Now that is funny.

He is going to look back with a ton of regrets. He should have been preforming as he did this summer at 25 or 26.

Mark my word, Lendl is going to be embarrassed by this loss, more so by the way Murray acted, and he is going to quit again.

Impossible to root for such a sad character.

 

[Rational National]

The media has been hyping Andy all summer--he's going to threaten Djokovic, etc. He had a great summer winning Wimbledon (not having to play Djokovic or Federer) and the Olympics (same). But at the US Open, he gets undone by a malfunctioning PA system and inspired play by Nishikori. I'll believe in Murray when he starts beating his top rivals on a regular basis. He's a solid top 3 or 4 player--period--who will win when the tennis gods are on his side as they were during the summer.

You have it partly right. The "hype" this summer was warranted. Miserable was the best player in the world right after the French Open, by a long shot.

You underestimate his skills...by a long shot. His speed, backhand, first serve, and shot selection is just SICK. Not to mention his off the charts fitness and work ethic.

The PROBLEM is..those massive strengths are balanced out by glaring weakness. His forehand..second serve (which HAS improved btw), court positioning...AND...most of all his extremely negative mental approach. The amount of energy drain he suffers from his absurd Hamlet act is sad. I would never ever accept his barking at the camp if I worked for him. I would tell him to shove it where the sun don't shine.. He is disrespectful and a horrible role model. He acts just like the spoiled juniors in the under 14s.

Miserable's worst habits come out under pressure..rolling the forehand, pushing the second serve, the chirping, playing the victim...a **** butterfly for chrisake...

And he had the gaul to claim his mental approach has NOT been a factor in being the least accomplished of the Big 4. Now that is funny.

He is going to look back with a ton of regrets. He should have been preforming as he did this summer at 25 or 26.

Mark my word, Lendl is going to be embarrassed by this loss, more so by the way Murray acted, and he is going to quit again.

Impossible to root for such a sad character.

So why do his team? Do they lack your mental fortitude or moral fibre? Are they obsessed with prestige of being involved with a top tennis player? Is it for the money? Are they just a bunch of obsequious yes men and Murray has surrounded himself with such a team in order to avoid challenge to his petulance???

The unavoidable truth is that Murray berates himself not his box, they are merely the faces to whom he projects his self-loathing and contempt - I don't disagree that the process of doing this is unhelpful, mentally draining and distracting but the key is managing it and where possible using it for the positive, especially if it is something that you cannot eliminate or reverse - generally speaking this has been the case recently - but yes it clearly affected him negatively the other night - but I would say more than that, his inability to get cheap points of his first serve and in complete agreement with you his court positioning and his failure to glide forward when the opportunities arose was far more detrimental.

I mean he broke Nishikori almost more than not, and being the stronger server he should absolutely have won that match. I think for Murray looking at the mental aspect of why he was beat is important, but I actually think he needs to focus more on why his serve was so ineffectual both in terms of placement & percentage.

 

[herios]

I think Murray was tired, that is why his serve let him down but also he was facing one of the best returners out there.

 

[Kieran]

I think Murray was tired, that is why his serve let him down but also he was facing one of the best returners out there.

Yeah, I think all the players who did well in Rio have struggled at the USO. I don't expect Nishi to perform well in the semi.

And Luxilon, Lendl isn't going to leave Andy because of this defeat... :nono

 

[DarthFed]

Murray did what he was supposed to do on grass. A lot of people before the event thought he would win regardless of whether he played Djokovic in the final and I was one of them. He has beaten Nole easily on grass the two times they met, it is not a matchup in Nole's favor. Roger did Novak a huge favor in the semi last year IMO and then went down without a fight in that final. Aside from that it has been a good year for Murray, he keeps improving on clay, doing more there than anyone ever figured, and winning a 2nd Olympics was huge as well.

With all that said it was a terrible loss two days ago. You win the 1st set 6-1 and are up a break in the 2nd and go on to lose the match...pathetic, I don't even need to know any other details, that frankly should never happen. And that shows why he is not on the level of the former top 3 and never will be.

 

[Luxilon Borg]

The media has been hyping Andy all summer--he's going to threaten Djokovic, etc. He had a great summer winning Wimbledon (not having to play Djokovic or Federer) and the Olympics (same). But at the US Open, he gets undone by a malfunctioning PA system and inspired play by Nishikori. I'll believe in Murray when he starts beating his top rivals on a regular basis. He's a solid top 3 or 4 player--period--who will win when the tennis gods are on his side as they were during the summer.

You have it partly right. The "hype" this summer was warranted. Miserable was the best player in the world right after the French Open, by a long shot.

You underestimate his skills...by a long shot. His speed, backhand, first serve, and shot selection is just SICK. Not to mention his off the charts fitness and work ethic.

The PROBLEM is..those massive strengths are balanced out by glaring weakness. His forehand..second serve (which HAS improved btw), court positioning...AND...most of all his extremely negative mental approach. The amount of energy drain he suffers from his absurd Hamlet act is sad. I would never ever accept his barking at the camp if I worked for him. I would tell him to shove it where the sun don't shine.. He is disrespectful and a horrible role model. He acts just like the spoiled juniors in the under 14s.

Miserable's worst habits come out under pressure..rolling the forehand, pushing the second serve, the chirping, playing the victim...a **** butterfly for chrisake...

And he had the gaul to claim his mental approach has NOT been a factor in being the least accomplished of the Big 4. Now that is funny.

He is going to look back with a ton of regrets. He should have been preforming as he did this summer at 25 or 26.

Mark my word, Lendl is going to be embarrassed by this loss, more so by the way Murray acted, and he is going to quit again.

Impossible to root for such a sad character.

So why do his team? Do they lack your mental fortitude or moral fibre? Are they obsessed with prestige of being involved with a top tennis player? Is it for the money? Are they just a bunch of obsequious yes men and Murray has surrounded himself with such a team in order to avoid challenge to his petulance???

The unavoidable truth is that Murray berates himself not his box, they are merely the faces to whom he projects his self-loathing and contempt - I don't disagree that the process of doing this is unhelpful, mentally draining and distracting but the key is managing it and where possible using it for the positive, especially if it is something that you cannot eliminate or reverse - generally speaking this has been the case recently - but yes it clearly affected him negatively the other night - but I would say more than that, his inability to get cheap points of his first serve and in complete agreement with you his court positioning and his failure to glide forward when the opportunities arose was far more detrimental.

I mean he broke Nishikori almost more than not, and being the stronger server he should absolutely have won that match. I think for Murray looking at the mental aspect of why he was beat is important, but I actually think he needs to focus more on why his serve was so ineffectual both in terms of placement & percentage.

I am not issuing an indictment against his camp for any moral failings. However, he ha clearly been enabled, and this childish unprofessional behavior has not been addressed. Except by Lendl.

The fact is he does NOT only project anger and negativity at himself. His pathetic arguments with various umpires and officials, and not even about calls...is laughable...

When you yell things like "Show me something"..."This strategy sucks"....."Don't just sit there"....and far far worse, that is NOT self abuse. That is external abuse.

Another mental factor is that unlike the other three..Murray has ALWAYS had a fear of success.

He was in a good position to beat Nish in 3 straight sets. And he blew it.

You won't be seeing Lendl at the AO...that is my call.

You made some excellent points however.

 

[Luxilon Borg]

I think Murray was tired, that is why his serve let him down but also he was facing one of the best returners out there.

Yeah, I think all the players who did well in Rio have struggled at the USO. I don't expect Nishi to perform well in the semi.

And Luxilon, Lendl isn't going to leave Andy because of this defeat... :nono

Ivan is going back to the golf course.