Miami Open, ATP Masters 2018

[El Dude]

Interesting stuff, @Federberg.

Despite the fact that Andy's game was passed up by the Big Four, he still managed to win a Masters as late as 2010, during the height of Big Four dominance, at the ripe old age of 27 years old. And he beat Rafa en route to that title, along with Tsonga and Berdych. He won a few more titles after that, but no big ones, and never reached another Slam SF.

Anyhow, what you say makes me think that Roddick, more than any player, was negatively impacted by the rise of the Big Four. We all know how Roger dominated him (21-3), and I speculated at one point that if Roger didn't exist, Andy would have won 4-5 Slams. But Roddick's peak was 2003-06, and he declined noticeably after; that just happened to correspond with the solidification of the Big Four as a group in 2007-08, so maybe Roddick's slip had more to do with that than any actual decline in his game.

 

[Federberg]

Interesting stuff, @Federberg.

Despite the fact that Andy's game was passed up by the Big Four, he still managed to win a Masters as late as 2010, during the height of Big Four dominance, at the ripe old age of 27 years old. And he beat Rafa en route to that title, along with Tsonga and Berdych. He won a few more titles after that, but no big ones, and never reached another Slam SF.

Anyhow, what you say makes me think that Roddick, more than any player, was negatively impacted by the rise of the Big Four. We all know how Roger dominated him (21-3), and I speculated at one point that if Roger didn't exist, Andy would have won 4-5 Slams. But Roddick's peak was 2003-06, and he declined noticeably after; that just happened to correspond with the solidification of the Big Four as a group in 2007-08, so maybe Roddick's slip had more to do with that than any actual decline in his game.

he would certainly have won a few more slams if Federer hadn't been there. This is one of the reasons it's laughable to dismiss him. Players like Roger and Rafa have a gravitational effect on titles, and they distort the careers of those around them. It's all very well some of the older ex players decrying the level of competition. Had they have to co-exist with the likes of Rafa I daresay their resumes would be adversely impacted as well

 

[mrzz]

You people should watch the Wimbledon finals between Roddick and Federer. 2004 it was toe to toe, and for me, level wise, by far the best match played on grass. Dozens and dozens of absurd points. Roddick cruised to the final that year and was destroying the rest of the field. He got to the final I guess without losing a set, and rarely going in to TB's. He was playing good tennis, period. He had a very good net game, and a very good slice back hand. Serve, forehand, net game, slice back hand. Four dimensions right there.

 

[Federberg]

^Exactly. So it's a bit absurd to dismiss him now. He might not have been as good as the big 4, but he wasn't a scrub by any means

 

[El Dude]

Perhaps what has been missing this past decade are players like Roddick, who aren't as great as the Big Four, but better than the Tsongas and Berdychs of the world. That is one of the things about the Big Four era that is so striking: there is such a gap between them and everyone else. Certainly, there have been players who have challenged them--Soderling, del Potro, and Wawrinka most especially--but they have risen and fallen for different reasons, while the Big Four reigned supreme.

Wrong thread, though.

 

[Moxie]

he would certainly have won a few more slams if Federer hadn't been there. This is one of the reasons it's laughable to dismiss him. Players like Roger and Rafa have a gravitational effect on titles, and they distort the careers of those around them. It's all very well some of the older ex players decrying the level of competition. Had they have to co-exist with the likes of Rafa I daresay their resumes would be adversely impacted as well

Just to say that was an excellent turn of phrase.

 

[Federberg]

Just to say that was an excellent turn of phrase.

:mail: we try

 

[isabelle]

Juanito rocks, I'm really happy so see him play well, hope he can win Miami

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

Milos is finding his rhythm slowly after all these months of lack of play, so good for him. Delpo is also finding his game and his backhand too, so congrats on the win. I am just not a big fan of the drama on the court though. One minute you cannot play one more point, next minute your shots leave vapor trails. No need man. Just play. Or don't.

 

[atttomole]

I really do think that Raonic is more than just a big server...I give him credit. But he's also less match-fit than Juan at this point. That may make the difference here, at the business end of the 3rd.

I didn’t say that Raonic is a mere server, but that he was serving well for the first two sets of the match. His serve was not broken until the third set. Raonic has more facets to his game. He can now hit more consistently with his forehand and can stay in rallies. However, his net play is atrocious. He missed most of the volleys at the net, and many of them were very easy ones. Players with more variety beat him by mixing it up, for example, bringing him to the net, changing the pace of the shots etc.

 

[Fiero425]

I didn’t say that Raonic is a mere server, but that he was serving well for the first two sets of the match. His serve was not broken until the third set. Raonic has more facets to his game. He can now hit more consistently with his forehand and can stay in rallies. However, his net play is atrocious. He missed most of the volleys at the net, and many of them were very easy ones. Players with more variety beat him by mixing it up, for example, bringing him to the net, changing the pace of the shots etc.

Today's players have little to no net game! If they venture forth, most of the time the point's nearly won on the approach so they can just knock off a "sitter!" You make them reach or grope for a volley and they look horrible; same with the women! Venus looks as if she's all at sea when she doesn't hurt her opponent with the approach shot! She either misses the passing shot or her block of the volley sits up to be knocked off! I just don't understand it! It seems players like Federer are a dying breed with few others having net games they can rely on with confidence! :whistle:

 

[Carol]

I don’t see so easy to know who will lift the Trophy in this tournament. According what Delpo said after the match he has pain all over his body and feels very tired and the others players are playing well until now but who knows today, tomorrow and Sunday. If Coric would win today I think he could win the final

 

[britbox]

This is one of the things that always makes me laugh when I read posters disparaging these guys. Name another endeavour in life where you're the 3rd or 4th best in your field where you're dismissed as irrelevant?

Wrt Roddick. I actually think that he ruined his game trying to contend with the evolving game. Roddick initially had a huge serve and a monstrous forehand. Few will recall, but there was a time when we talked about the lethality of the Roddick forehand, and compared it to some of the great shots in the game. I can't remember who the coach was, Gilbert? But someone convinced him to change his forehand from a primarily offensive weapon to a more spinny shot. He was never the same again. He remained very consistent for years, but to my mind didn't retain that 'any given Sunday' dangerous vibe. He is worthy of a bit more respect than is doled out to him now. It's unfair to compare him to a Novak. He's clearly not in that class, but that doesn't make a deserved #1 and slam winner a scrub all of a sudden

This. Roddick tried to evolve his game with the crosshairs on Federer... the biggest impact was definitely on his forehand. He wasn't condemned to 8 or 9 after 2003 as another poster mentioned... he spent most of the next five years in the Top 5 or 6. He's disparaged regularly because he Federer owned him... but his record against the rest was pretty good including a leading H2H against Djokovic.

 

[Federberg]

This. Roddick tried to evolve his game with the crosshairs on Federer... the biggest impact was definitely on his forehand. He wasn't condemned to 8 or 9 after 2003 as another poster mentioned... he spent most of the next five years in the Top 5 or 6. He's disparaged regularly because he Federer owned him... but his record against the rest was pretty good including a leading H2H against Djokovic.

wow! Hadn't even realised he had the H2H over Novak

 

[Front242]

Milos is finding his rhythm slowly after all these months of lack of play, so good for him. Delpo is also finding his game and his backhand too, so congrats on the win. I am just not a big fan of the drama on the court though. One minute you cannot play one more point, next minute your shots leave vapor trails. No need man. Just play. Or don't.

Agreed about Del Potro moping between points. Annoys the hell out of me. Other than that and his often late bs challenges, I like his game and have nothing else bad to say about him. Needs to cut that shit out though.

 

[Front242]

wow! Hadn't even realised he had the H2H over Novak

How could you possibly have forgotten the gem thread by OTM about Roddick never beating prime Novak but he couldn't accept that Novak never beat prime Roddick! I remember it like yesterday

 

[Federberg]

How could you possibly have forgotten the gem thread by OTM about Roddick never beating prime Novak but he couldn't accept that Novak never beat prime Roddick! I remember it like yesterday

That must have been after I left that other site There've been some nutty Novak fan-tard posts for sure!

 

[DarthFed]

Agreed about Del Potro moping between points. Annoys the hell out of me. Other than that and his often late bs challenges, I like his game and have nothing else bad to say about him. Needs to cut that shit out though.

Yep, same here. It's great to see him play like this again as I really figured he was finished as a legit contender. But he knows what he's doing sometimes with the challenges and Roger had a legit beef in the IW final when DP sat down after challenging his serve. That and the possum antics are annoying.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Perhaps what has been missing this past decade are players like Roddick, who aren't as great as the Big Four, but better than the Tsongas and Berdychs of the world. That is one of the things about the Big Four era that is so striking: there is such a gap between them and everyone else. Certainly, there have been players who have challenged them--Soderling, del Potro, and Wawrinka most especially--but they have risen and fallen for different reasons, while the Big Four reigned supreme.

Wrong thread, though.

That is a tautology dude. If the gap is not huge, one would not call it a big four era.

 

[the AntiPusher]

My goodness, Raonic has had 11 coaches during his career? that’s a record!

Maybe he needs to go see the Wizard (Oz)