Is there a double standard for Novak Djokovic's behaviour?

Billie

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It was the Dubai 2012, and his brother Marko was given a WC to enter and he promptly lost in the first round. To what extent Djoker used his influence (other than putting in a request a month before), we don't know. Did the tournament directors take into consideration that he was the world #1? No doubt.

Marko was 20 years old at the time and coming back from injury that had him laid up for almost ten months (hence the #869 ranking). He was working his way back and his brother wanted him to have an opportunity, and made the request. I feel badly for the player (Malek Jaziri #102) who had to play the qualifiers instead of getting the wild card.

Ricardo complained about it on the other board at the time when it happened. He was sure that it would become common occurrence, but it never happened again. There is more than 1 wild card in each tournament, how do we know that Jaziri was refused one because of Marko. I also felt bad for Jaziri, but he was given wild cards to Dubai since then. Good thing that Jaziri doesn't hold it against Nole as they are good friends now:

http://sport360.com/article/tennis/...-battle-close-friend-novak-djokovic-in-dubai/
 
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Mastoor

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That article is one huge BS and I don't know how Britbox even comes across rubbish like that.It lists you examples selectively and speculatively to convince you that umpires systematically treat Novak differently than any other player which is just not true.

While I believe that every player rude to children should be fined even if they yell next to them not at them, I know for fact that one player wasn't fined when he trough towel to my son's face. And it wasn't Novak.

The example with line judge is totally speculative. it speculates around the situation as if Novak hit the linesman which is not true. So what's the big deal, he trough his racket and how many times players do so without being warned.

in addition to that there is nothing Novak does all the time to get away with unlike his Spanish friend who tends to violate service time in his every match that doesn't go smoothly for him or Novak's English friend who seem to say f-word several dozen times in his many matches. I don't think that even his compatriots, Billy Connolly or Gordon Ramsey are proud of him firing endless arrays of f-word.
 

Ricardo

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Ricardo complained about it on the other board at the time when it happened. He was sure that it would become common occurrence, but it never happened again. There is more than 1 wild card in each tournament, how do we know that Jaziri was refused one because of Marko. I also felt bad for Jaziri, but he was given wild cards to Dubai since then. Good thing that Jaziri doesn't hold it against Nole as they are good friends now:

http://sport360.com/article/tennis/...-battle-close-friend-novak-djokovic-in-dubai/

when did i ever say that it would become common occurrence? make it up as you go isn't it Billy? show me evidence i said that, or just stop lying. BTW Marko himself had a career high of 581, so he was never good enough to go anywhere near getting a wild card (if not due to his brother requesting it)......sorry to expose your BS yet again, just can't let it get in the way of facts. Ill make it clear for you, Marko didn't deserve a WC no matter how you twist it and it doesn't matter whose spot he took....he was the most undeserving WC holder then.
 

MikeOne

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Nole's antics are not that bad and need to be put in context. Nole, unlike Kyrgios and Tomic, is #1 in the world and an extremely dedicated and professional athlete. 99% of the time, Nole behaves in a very professional manner and he also plays a lot more matches than these young hot heads and in pressure situations much more often. It is not a problem to me that on very rare occasions, Novak let's his temper fly and his so called transgressions are pretty small anyway. So lately, he had that incident where he startled the ball boy for a split second without touching him or harming him...wow.. how bad! Then there was an incident where he let the racquet go and unintentionally almost hit the a line umpire; he obviously didn't mean to throw it at him. For a guy that 99% of the time conducts himself as a role model to those who aspire to be the best player, these rare acts are pretty small and arguing that there is a double standard is IMO, ridiculous.

You see, Kyrgios and Tomic aren't nearly as professional as Nole, day in day out. They are not even proven athletes and their behavior in and outside the court is very different than Nole. Nole doesn't say controversial and disrespectful things outside the tennis court as these two do and inside the court, he is entitled to have rare outbursts that really aren't harmful to anyone. Kyrgios and Tomic act immaturely, say stupid things outside the court and inside the court, their antics (although may seem similar to Djokovic) come from unproven guys who are immature. Also, they display antics at a much higher ratio when compared to matches played or accomplishments (vs Nole). To me, this is apples and oranges and it's stupid to compare. We can't compare two immature, unaccomplished hot heads (who show a lack of respect in and outside the court) to the world # 1 who is much more professional, mature (on and off the court) and is indeed a role model to aspiring players.
 
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EdbergsGhost

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Very true MikeOne. And with regard to Marko receiving a WC to Dubai, the one thing Djokovic wasn't accused of was being a good brother.
 
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Ricardo

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Nole's antics are not that bad and need to be put in context. Nole, unlike Kyrgios and Tomic, is #1 in the world and an extremely dedicated and professional athlete. 99% of the time, Nole behaves in a very professional manner and he also plays a lot more matches than these young hot heads and in pressure situations much more often. It is not a problem to me that on very rare occasions, Novak let's his temper fly and his so called transgressions are pretty small anyway. So lately, he had that incident where he startled the ball boy for a split second without touching him or harming him...wow.. how bad! Then there was an incident where he let the racquet go and unintentionally almost hit the a line umpire; he obviously didn't mean to throw it at him. For a guy that 99% of the time conducts himself as a role model to those who aspire to be the best player, these rare acts are pretty small and arguing that there is a double standard is IMO, ridiculous.

You see, Kyrgios and Tomic aren't nearly as professional as Nole, day in day out. They are not even proven athletes and their behavior in and outside the court is very different than Nole. Nole doesn't say controversial and disrespectful things outside the tennis court as these two do and inside the court, he is entitled to have rare outbursts that really aren't harmful to anyone. Kyrgios and Tomic act immaturely, say stupid things outside the court and inside the court, their antics (although may seem similar to Djokovic) come from unproven guys who are immature. Also, they display antics at a much higher ratio when compared to matches played or accomplishments (vs Nole). To me, this is apples and oranges and it's stupid to compare. We can't compare two immature, unaccomplished hot heads (who show a lack of respect in and outside the court) to the world # 1 who is much more professional, mature (on and off the court) and is indeed a role model to aspiring players.

Agreed mostly about Nole, he is in general good but not as good as Fedal who were a bit more considerate of ball boys/girls.

Too harsh on Kyrgios and Tomic, they are hot headed and immature but that's about it. As far as unproven? should have nothing to do with achievement, as discussion is in the context of behaviours. Unless you think if they are more 'proven', they can be treated more leniently.... which is exactly what double standard is all about.
 

MikeOne

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Agreed mostly about Nole, he is in general good but not as good as Fedal who were a bit more considerate of ball boys/girls.

Too harsh on Kyrgios and Tomic, they are hot headed and immature but that's about it. As far as unproven? should have nothing to do with achievement, as discussion is in the context of behaviours. Unless you think if they are more 'proven', they can be treated more leniently.... which is exactly what double standard is all about.

I have seen Nadal and Murray treat ball boys like absolute dirt. Nadal at times has yelled at them and ordered them around 'bring me towel now!' etc... Murray is the same... To say that Nole treats ball boys with less respect because one time he startled a ball boy for a split second is silly..

I have never seen Federer pull these antics on ball boys, not to say he hasn't, but i've never seen it. I definitely have seen nadal and murray take out their frustrations on ball boys more than once... To me, those who go after Nole have a hidden agenda, they don't like him. From a neutral standpoint, i don't see much difference between how Nadal, Murray and Nole treat ball boys... For all 3 i have seen several instances where i question why take out their frustrations on poor ball boys.. 'TOWEL NOW!!' 'BALL NOW!!' and hand gestures as if ball boys were slaves... I have seen rafa, Nole and murray act in this manner and it's similar to how some of them take out their frustrations on chair umpires. These guys are not f robots and the 3 of them in pressure situations very often, playing big big important matches. These guys are f human, it's ok for them to occasionally let off steam; unfortunately, ball boys and umpires are the ones on the court who are on the receiving end.

and all 3 exhibit much more professionalism as compared to Kyrgios and Tomic, on and outside the court. This is truly incomparable. I'm not being harsh on them, i'm just saying you cannot compare them. Kyrgios comments on Wawrkina's girl? Tomic's comments and lack of work ethic? There is no double standard here, clearly, these two exhibit less professionalism and more immaturity and they are much less accomplished.
 
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Carol

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Really? you sure that you have seen Nadal yelling the ball boys and you never seen Federer yelling the ball boys and the chair umpires? wow this is a "news"
 

MikeOne

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Really? you sure that you have seen Nadal yelling the ball boys and you never seen Federer yelling the ball boys and the chair umpires? wow this is a "news"

really pointed to ball boys, i haven't seen Fed go after ball boys but i'm sure he has.. i just haven't seen it. I have seen Fed get upset at umpires, several times but i was really talking about ball boys in that sentence. Now, i'm not the biggest Fed fan and many here know that, i just haven't seen Fed lose his cool with ball kids... Definitiley have with Nole, Rara and Andy

but none of the big 4 have been unreasonable, it just shows they are not robots but most of the time very respectful and professional. You cannot say the same about Kyrgios and Tomic...
 

EdbergsGhost

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and all 3 exhibit much more professionalism as compared to Kyrgios and Tomic, on and outside the court. This is truly incomparable. I'm not being harsh on them, i'm just saying you cannot compare them. Kyrgios comments on Wawrkina's girl? Tomic's comments and lack of work ethic? There is no double standard here, clearly, these two exhibit less professionalism and more immaturity and they are much less accomplished.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-07-17/bernard-tomic-bad-behaviour-timeline/6626898

http://wwos.nine.com.au/2015/11/16/13/57/the-long-rap-sheet-of-galoot-kyrgios
 

Carol

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really pointed to ball boys, i haven't seen Fed go after ball boys but i'm sure he has.. i just haven't seen it. I have seen Fed get upset at umpires, several times but i was really talking about ball boys in that sentence. Now, i'm not the biggest Fed fan and many here know that, i just haven't seen Fed lose his cool with ball kids... Definitiley have with Nole, Rara and Andy

but none of the big 4 have been unreasonable, it just shows they are not robots but most of the time very respectful and professional. You cannot say the same about Kyrgios and Tomic...
One thing is pointing the ball boys to remind them about the towel and another thing very different is to grab the towel with bad manners from the ball boy who wasn't his fault that the player lost the point....
 

Moxie

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Nole's antics are not that bad and need to be put in context. Nole, unlike Kyrgios and Tomic, is #1 in the world and an extremely dedicated and professional athlete. 99% of the time, Nole behaves in a very professional manner and he also plays a lot more matches than these young hot heads and in pressure situations much more often. It is not a problem to me that on very rare occasions, Novak let's his temper fly and his so called transgressions are pretty small anyway. So lately, he had that incident where he startled the ball boy for a split second without touching him or harming him...wow.. how bad! Then there was an incident where he let the racquet go and unintentionally almost hit the a line umpire; he obviously didn't mean to throw it at him. For a guy that 99% of the time conducts himself as a role model to those who aspire to be the best player, these rare acts are pretty small and arguing that there is a double standard is IMO, ridiculous.

You see, Kyrgios and Tomic aren't nearly as professional as Nole, day in day out. They are not even proven athletes and their behavior in and outside the court is very different than Nole. Nole doesn't say controversial and disrespectful things outside the tennis court as these two do and inside the court, he is entitled to have rare outbursts that really aren't harmful to anyone. Kyrgios and Tomic act immaturely, say stupid things outside the court and inside the court, their antics (although may seem similar to Djokovic) come from unproven guys who are immature. Also, they display antics at a much higher ratio when compared to matches played or accomplishments (vs Nole). To me, this is apples and oranges and it's stupid to compare. We can't compare two immature, unaccomplished hot heads (who show a lack of respect in and outside the court) to the world # 1 who is much more professional, mature (on and off the court) and is indeed a role model to aspiring players.
This is, overall, a very fair statement. (OK, Novak has nipped into controversy, with the equal pay issue, but most of the top 4 have courted controversy at some point. They get asked questions and they respond.) The original question is whether Novak gets a pass that Kyrgios doesn't, based on Kyrgios statements that he's treated more harshly than the big 4. I think you address that. It doesn't matter that he (and Tomic, as he's been brought in) are less accomplished. It's that they have behaved more brattish and rude. Nothing about rank, or who has the right to be a brat. However, then you get into niggles about bad behavior amongst the top 4. People have used this thread to point out Novak's behavior, because it was a "contrast" question. Fair enough, but it really isn't so bad, as most have said. But I don't agree with you trying to make bad boys out of Rafa and Murray towards ball kids, just by contrast. It becomes niggling and subjective. Amongst the top 4, they do tend to behave well on-court. Each has places where he has been more transgressive. By age: Federer: he's not above arguing with the umpire, swearing, and throwing a racquet. Nadal: he should get the kudos for on-court comportment, as he's never thrown a racquet, doesn't swear, and usually doesn't blink when he gets a time violation. However, he does abuse the time. He's slow. And I don't think he abuses the ball kids. Novak: he is the most gracious in defeat. (If you can remember back to when he actually lost.) He's emotional on court, as Billie says, and he's been sanctioned at moments for it. He can throw a racquet and swear (and no, it's not ok just because it's not in English,) he's startled a few ball kids and made one girl cry, but it is head-of-the-moment and not ill-intended. Andy: Yes, he's grumpy and swears a lot, but it is a detriment to be an English-speaker, as all of the umpires know your swear words. I've heard Fognini drop any number of rude expressions in Italian, but the umpires don't understand. And Billie has said that Novak swears in Serbian.

Point being: The Big 4 are actually generally well-behaved. No need to nit-pick the differences between them. And if Nick Kyrgios feels that he's being hard done-by, compared to those top guys, he's just wrong. They've never done anything as crass or unsportsmanlike as he has, so it's really hard to determine how much they would have been sanctioned. But Nick's takeaway from this should be: stop being a dick, stop distracting yourself, and play the tennis you can.
 

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I read those links, (the last 2 being the more interesting) and, while even Laver says that Gonzalez was a "jerk," it doesn't add up to anything on-court other than arguing with umpires, which all of the bad boys have done.

What about the third link that puts Ilie Nastase and Gonzales in the same sentence?
 

Moxie

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What about the third link that puts Ilie Nastase and Gonzales in the same sentence?

Yes, and? I still don't see how this makes Gonzales the biggest jerk ever. As a Mexican-American in a then-lily white sport, Gonzales had a pretty big chip on his shoulder. There have been bad boys through the years, and he may have been the first, but the ones that back it up with their tennis do get more of a pass, I feel. I'm still wondering how Gonzales is the worst.

Anyway, it's a vintage article (1985) and another interesting quote I found because you asked me to revisit it was this from Tim Mayotte: "Tennis is never going to be a mass-appeal sport." Boy, he got that wrong.
 
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Obsi

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Yes, and? I still don't see how this makes Gonzales the biggest jerk ever. As a Mexican-American in a then-lily white sport, Gonzales had a pretty big chip on his shoulder. There have been bad boys through the years, and he may have been the first, but the ones that back it up with their tennis do get more of a pass, I feel. I'm still wondering how Gonzales is the worst.

Go back and read again my post. I did not say Gonzales is the worst but ONE of the worst.

Anyway, it's a vintage article (1985)

Yes, and?
 

Moxie

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@Obsi, my comment about it being "vintage" was connected to Mayotte's quote about tennis never having mass-appeal. I thought that was funny. It's wasn't a comment on its validity or anything. In fact, I was impressed you found it.
 

Carol

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No. Laver's statement is evidence that Gonzales was a jerk.

Can you provide any evidence Gonzales was not a jerk?
Maybe Gonzales thought that Lever was a jerk too :whistle: