Is Kyrgios Taking Tennis To New Zenith?

[Moxie]

Who else has maintained a prime for 15+ years? Connors and Agassi kind of, but not as consistently or as close to their peak as Roger. I think we have to go back to Ken Rosewall to see someone comparable.

Then Scoop makes a good point with Serena. You could probably add Venus, then, who played some great tennis even last year, and was in final at Wimbledon, 20 years after her first Major final. Martina had 19 years between her first and last Major finals, too.

 

[scoop]

Scoop Malinowski writes:

El Dude, Serena's prime is still extending. Over 15 yrs. Hingis retired still in her doubles prime

 

[El Dude]

I think we have to look at the ATP and WTA separately as I believe women tend to have greater longevity and there are just other factors that make them almost different sports (At the risk of sounding like Jack Kramer; I just watched Battle of the Sexes).

But yeah, Serena and Roger are parallels in many ways, although Serena's prime is even longer. She won her first big title at Indian Wells in 1999, at age 17. If she is able to find her prime form this year and win a Slam, that would be a 20-year span of Slam titles! That hasn't been done on either side since Ken Rosewall, who also had a 20-year Slam span.

 

[Moxie]

I think we have to look at the ATP and WTA separately as I believe women tend to have greater longevity and there are just other factors that make them almost different sports (At the risk of sounding like Jack Kramer; I just watched Battle of the Sexes).

But yeah, Serena and Roger are parallels in many ways, although Serena's prime is even longer. She won her first big title at Indian Wells in 1999, at age 17. If she is able to find her prime form this year and win a Slam, that would be a 20-year span of Slam titles! That hasn't been done on either side since Ken Rosewall, who also had a 20-year Slam span.

I don't know why you have to look at them as separate sports, but, given that women tend to retire to have kids, or take a break for kids, longevity for them could be considered even more amazing.

 

[El Dude]

I'm not making a judgement either way, Moxie (about longevity). And I said "almost different sports" not "separate sports." A subtle but crucial difference.

Let's be honest: the men's game is played on a much higher level. I don't know if I agree with John McEnroe, but he said that the top 500 ATP players could beat Serena Williams, probably the best woman player ever. I say this not to put down the women, but to emphasize that the higher level involves different dynamics - of power, speed, strength, etc, all of which are impacted by aging in different ways.

In other words, we can't really compare things like longevity or prime age ranges because of the different dynamics that the male/female and level involve.

 

[El Dude]

This is also why I greatly dislike ranking men and women together, like the Tennis Channel did a few years ago. In a way it subtly undermines the greatness of female players to try to compare Navratilova and Graf to Federer; we all know there is no comparison, so why rank them together?

 

[Moxie]

I'm not making a judgement either way, Moxie (about longevity). And I said "almost different sports" not "separate sports." A subtle but crucial difference.

Let's be honest: the men's game is played on a much higher level. I don't know if I agree with John McEnroe, but he said that the top 500 ATP players could beat Serena Williams, probably the best woman player ever. I say this not to put down the women, but to emphasize that the higher level involves different dynamics - of power, speed, strength, etc, all of which are impacted by aging in different ways.

In other words, we can't really compare things like longevity or prime age ranges because of the different dynamics that the male/female and level involve.

Let's be honest: the men's game is being played at a much higher level right now. That has not always been the case. And even if you can't be bothered to compare their games, Serena, surely, is a stunning champion. I've already told you why longevity in the women's game is actually dicier, and so should be more highly praised. I don't know any male player that has taken maternity leave, or had problems coming back after having children. The men and women play very often in parallel, and it's incredibly condescending of you to act as if the women's game is a unicorn to the men's lion. Plenty of women have distinguished themselves, irrespective of gender, and plenty of women have propped up the game with their marquee names, across the years.

 

[El Dude]

Oh please, Moxie - you're reading something into what I'm saying that I'm not actually saying. I don't want to be your stand-in for whatever you need to work out. The lion/unicorn thing is just pure rubbish - or rather, I am saying nothing of the kind.

And never did I say that Serena isn't a stunning champion. Nor did I make any comment on whether longevity is more or less impressive in the women's or men's games. I think that would require more data points than the one you offer.

As for the history of the sport, I don't know if the game's were closer in level at some point in the past - I've never researched that. That would be hard to quantify. As far as I know, other than the Battle of the Sexes matches, we don't have much to go on - and those hardly support your statement. (That said, the men's game before the Open Era was much less power oriented, so I could see the gap being closer).

 

[El Dude]

Back to Kyrgios, after watching the highlights of his win against Grigor, any softening I was having towards @mrzz's view has hardened again...the dude looked nasty, with some just crazy shots. I think that is what impresses me the most: he's able to come up with some amazing shots. On one hand this looks like Monfilsian luck, on the other hand this is the type of playing that the greats are capable of.

Here's a video:



A nice, competitive match with the type of tennis I enjoy.

 

[Front242]

Have to say I'm not one bit impressed with Kyrgios in those highlights. Way too much puke making pushing. Lame pushes into the court and then just stands there as the ball flies past him. Massive serve but he won't win any big titles being a pusher. Movement looked well dodgy there and I reckon he'll be gone by round 3 at the absolute best in the AO.

 

[scoop]

Scoop Malinowski writes:

And we don't even know for sure if the Riggs vs King match was on the level. But we do know that Braasch whooped both Serena and Venus. And we know Serena has been avoiding a match with McEnroe. I am going to ask Serena about the possibility of playing McEnroe in Miami. Might ask Maria too if she would be willing to step in if Serena opts out.

 

[scoop]

Scoop Malinowski writes:

Front243; Nick goes into push mode when he's tanking or he's trying to get the opponent out of his rhythm. Sounds like Nick is saving his best for Melbourne, as he should.

 

[Front242]

Scoop Malinowski writes:

Front243; Nick goes into push mode when he's tanking or he's trying to get the opponent out of his rhythm. Sounds like Nick is saving his best for Melbourne, as he should.

Just looked not fully fit to me and I doubt he goes far next week personally. Ps, Front243. Nice. Guess I am a year older in 2018 or will be. Might as well be 243.

 

[scoop]

Scoop Malinowski writes:

Catherine, Battle of the sexes is a good thing for tennis, the public find it intriguing. It happens rarely but when it does it generates tremendous buzz, curiosity and excitement.

 

[scoop]

Scoop Malinowski writes:

Front244; Nick loves to pretend he's hurt. He did it in his first match at Brisbane but won the title. I think he's playing possum this week and will be running on all cylinders next week. Though he may feign like he's injured I think it will be a phantom.