I wonder if any of the more scientifically minded people on here could help me, please.

[mrzz]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/spot...omething-weird/ar-AAG2cmq?ocid=spartanntp_edu

What do you think of this?

It is a very interesting article, if you read it paying attention to some underlying aspects, it gets even more interesting.

The only caveat is the article's title, which is a big click bait. It suggests that earth might be doing something different from normal -- which is something that it is not said in the article's content. Also, even if you read it like this "weird" thing was always there, again... not exactly what the article says.

The whole point is about how you can measure something as fundamental as earth's inner core rotation rate. It is quite interesting to see how the scientist scramble after ways of trying to get relevant data. The article shows how hard is to deal with open questions in science. In the end, there is nothing "weird". The inner core is rotating, the guys from the field just cannot understand it perfectly yet. Not to say that this is "ordinary", on the contrary. Or, better, it is the ordinarily fantastic aspect of science... try to answer those fundamental questions.

 

[Horsa]

It’s interesting. Also, I never knew the Soviets detonated nuclear bombs so powerful they ricocheted off the earth’s core.

I find it fascinating too. I didn't know that either but I was only born in the early '80's. I take an interest in '70's music but other than that the only dates I take notice of before I was born are at least 50 years old. To me proper history is at least 50 years old though I prefer to look at history over 100 years old.

 

[Horsa]

It is a very interesting article, if you read it paying attention to some underlying aspects, it gets even more interesting.

The only caveat is the article's title, which is a big click bait. It suggests that earth might be doing something different from normal -- which is something that it is not said in the article's content. Also, even if you read it like this "weird" thing was always there, again... not exactly what the article says.

The whole point is about how you can measure something as fundamental as earth's inner core rotation rate. It is quite interesting to see how the scientist scramble after ways of trying to get relevant data. The article shows how hard is to deal with open questions in science. In the end, there is nothing "weird". The inner core is rotating, the guys from the field just cannot understand it perfectly yet. Not to say that this is "ordinary", on the contrary. Or, better, it is the ordinarily fantastic aspect of science... try to answer those fundamental questions.

I've had a proper look now. I didn't have chance earlier as I'd just come back from my pottery class.

I agree.

I found the finding of gems especially interesting. I have an interest in crystals.

It also mentioned geophysical results. I remember our chat about geophysics. We focussed mainly on geophysics & it's role in aiding archaeologists to find the best place to dig trenches. Chris found out about the role of geophysics in finding leaks. Are these the same results & processes that were used to find this information. It is fascinating indeed. (They said they found these crystals in Brazil. It's a shame you weren't nearby or you would be 1 very happy chappy. Lol.)

 

[Chris Koziarz]

It is a very interesting article, if you read it paying attention to some underlying aspects, it gets even more interesting.

The only caveat is the article's title, which is a big click bait. It suggests that earth might be doing something different from normal -- which is something that it is not said in the article's content. Also, even if you read it like this "weird" thing was always there, again... not exactly what the article says.

The whole point is about how you can measure something as fundamental as earth's inner core rotation rate. It is quite interesting to see how the scientist scramble after ways of trying to get relevant data. The article shows how hard is to deal with open questions in science. In the end, there is nothing "weird". The inner core is rotating, the guys from the field just cannot understand it perfectly yet. Not to say that this is "ordinary", on the contrary. Or, better, it is the ordinarily fantastic aspect of science... try to answer those fundamental questions.

I think by saying that the Fe core is "doing something weird", they try to say the exact nature of the interaction of inner Fe core with the rest of molten interior is unknown. The observed Doppler shift in the scattered wave patterns between 1971-74 soviet nuke tests can be due to inner Fe core super-rotation, or due to other processes that change the shape of said core. The calculations have not been confirmed and the results are not consistent but the fact that all results point to the super-rotation in one direction only suggests we indeed are dealing with a rotation here.
Two interesting aspects to note here:
1.The geo-echo data has been lying since 1971-74, because back then, they didn't know what to do with it. Now, we do know better what to do, because we have powerful computers and algorithms to do pattern matching. Unfortunately, the data has eroded in these 45 or so years. So we need new data. Perhaps renewed cold war and various underground nuke tests (a new tsar bomba would be the best) would be invaluable to this field of research (pun intended)
2. They are talking about the rotation of inner core being responsible for the formation of magnetic field (van Allen belt) protecting us from particles of solar wind. But no: that's a mistake: there cannot be any electricity/magnetism from a spinning ball of solid Fe. Such motion does not produce any displacement of electric charge. Rather the convective movements of Fe in the outer molten core do generate electric currents and subsequently the van Allen belt. The fact, that van Allen belt spontaneously changes polarity every few 100ky or so, indicates the combined vector of convective movements changes direction here. The inner core super-rotation (if it exists) cannot spontaneously change direction I think (too much energy would be required for it and how could it be explained?), so the core is spinning steady for many millions of years.

 

[Chris Koziarz]

It’s interesting. Also, I never knew the Soviets detonated nuclear bombs so powerful they ricocheted off the earth’s core.

Have you heard of tsar bomba? the most powerful thermo-nuke weapon ever detonated, about 80M tons if I remember correctly. They have detonated it in the air (dropping it on parachute for a delayed detonation so that the aeroplane had a chance to escape and survive the action) because they feared surface (not to mention underground) explosion could create too much environmental damage. I think if they wanted to test such bomb nowadays they'd do it from an unmanned drone. Crazy idea, as crazy as the cold war was.

 

[Chris Koziarz]

It also mentioned geophysical results. I remember our chat about geophysics. We focussed mainly on geophysics & it's role in aiding archaeologists to find the best place to dig trenches. Chris found out about the role of geophysics in finding leaks. Are these the same results & processes that were used to find this information

Yes. The principles are the same. The earthquake waves are scattering when bouncing from the surface of inner core and by analysing the pattern of scattered waves, they deduce the shape of the core. Just like archaeologists deduce the shapes of things under their feet by sending electromagnetic waves of ground penetrating radar and analysing the scattered GPR waves.

 

[mrzz]

I think by saying that the Fe core is "doing something weird", they try to say the exact nature of the interaction of inner Fe core with the rest of molten interior is unknown.

I still don't like this approach. I mean, to equate "weird" to unknown. This does a disservice to science education, IMO. Ultimately we cannot even tell what is weird or not, as there is no pattern or standard to judge it against. I still think this purposely misleading, but even if it is not the case, I rather called it "mysterious" or "intriguing" than "weird".

Very nice point about the polarity changes. Surely the scale of energy even to a small change in angular momentum of the inner core is beyond absurd. Some intricate complex large-scale interaction is at play here. Well guys in this field have probably their hands full -- must be a very interesting field to work on.

 

[Chris Koziarz]

I still don't like this approach. I mean, to equate "weird" to unknown. This does a disservice to science education, IMO. Ultimately we cannot even tell what is weird or not, as there is no pattern or standard to judge it against. I still think this purposely misleading, but even if it is not the case, I rather called it "mysterious" or "intriguing" than "weird".

Fully agree. The fellow who wrote it was a journalist who cares more about the sensationalism of his piece rather than its scientific correctness. We see it over and over throughout all fields, where we must correct the journos who are biased or outright wrong.

 

[Horsa]

Yes. The principles are the same. The earthquake waves are scattering when bouncing from the surface of inner core and by analysing the pattern of scattered waves, they deduce the shape of the core. Just like archaeologists deduce the shapes of things under their feet by sending electromagnetic waves of ground penetrating radar and analysing the scattered GPR waves.

Thank you very much. Not quite. It's like archaeological geophysicists. Archaeologists use the information given to them by the geophysicists from geophysical surveys & use it to decide where to dig. There are many types of geophysicists. It's the archaeological geophysicists who do this work. Archaeologists just dig to find historical artefacts then remove them gently so they don't break them unless necessary, putting them into containers which go into rooms which look similar to the archive room which I work in. They get cleaned up & people catalogue the items & store them carefully for future use, similar to what I do in the archives room but I don't clean the items up. I just catalogue them & store them for future use filing them in their appropriate areas.

Watch this.



This will show you the difference between what archaeologists & geophysicists do & what happens in the finds room. I used to watch it every week. It's where I 1st heard about geophysics.

 

[Horsa]

How are crystals formed?

How are gems formed?

 

[Horsa]

I've just been reading about Galileo Galilei. He wrote his book on the earth rotating round the sun in 1610. He got put under house arrest in 1632 by the Roman Inquisition because that idea went against the way society at the time thought. If they felt that strongly about it, why did it take so long? Apparently he stayed under house arrest from 1632 until he died in 1642 & we think we're badly done to when we've only had to stay in 3 months & not completely like he did. Imagine what he must have thought & felt. We've also got to consider all the things he did & imagine the things he was capable of when we imagine what he must have thought & felt.

 

[Chris Koziarz]

I've just been reading about Galileo Galilei. He wrote his book on the earth rotating round the sun in 1610. He got put under house arrest in 1632 by the Roman Inquisition because that idea went against the way society at the time thought. If they felt that strongly about it, why did it take so long? Apparently he stayed under house arrest from 1632 until he died in 1642 & we think we're badly done to when we've only had to stay in 3 months & not completely like he did. Imagine what he must have thought & felt. We've also got to consider all the things he did & imagine the things he was capable of when we imagine what he must have thought & felt.

I read that Galileo was inquisited not for his 1610 book but for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialogue_Concerning_the_Two_Chief_World_Systems published in 1632, where he portrayed the ruling pope Urban VIII as the defender of old geo-centric system who loses in the argument fight against a helio-centric proponent. Until this book, Galileo kept escaping the wrath of Roman Church, Urban VIII was even his supporter at some point, under the apparent deal that Galileo kept pronouncing his teachings as "philosophy" and not as "facts". However said 1632 book changed Urban's stance because the pope felt offended (probably by violation of the papal infallibility doctrine) and hence the inquisition and the trial which ended in mid 1633. So it took them few months to convict Galileo which is a reasonable time I think.

 

[Horsa]

I read that Galileo was inquisited not for his 1610 book but for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialogue_Concerning_the_Two_Chief_World_Systems published in 1632, where he portrayed the ruling pope Urban VIII as the defender of old geo-centric system who loses in the argument fight against a helio-centric proponent. Until this book, Galileo kept escaping the wrath of Roman Church, Urban VIII was even his supporter at some point, under the apparent deal that Galileo kept pronouncing his teachings as "philosophy" and not as "facts". However said 1632 book changed Urban's stance because the pope felt offended (probably by violation of the papal infallibility doctrine) and hence the inquisition and the trial which ended in mid 1633. So it took them few months to convict Galileo which is a reasonable time I think.

What I read was different but I'll read that later. As I've been very busy I made the mistake of not cross-referencing.

 

[Horsa]

I read that Galileo was inquisited not for his 1610 book but for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialogue_Concerning_the_Two_Chief_World_Systems published in 1632, where he portrayed the ruling pope Urban VIII as the defender of old geo-centric system who loses in the argument fight against a helio-centric proponent. Until this book, Galileo kept escaping the wrath of Roman Church, Urban VIII was even his supporter at some point, under the apparent deal that Galileo kept pronouncing his teachings as "philosophy" and not as "facts". However said 1632 book changed Urban's stance because the pope felt offended (probably by violation of the papal infallibility doctrine) and hence the inquisition and the trial which ended in mid 1633. So it took them few months to convict Galileo which is a reasonable time I think.

Some of the information I read before was more fascinating but there are some fascinating points on that 1st webpage you shared. Thank you very much for sharing. The calculations I made were correct with the information I was given. The information you gave would make your last sentence reasonable & I'd agree.

 

[Horsa]

How is isotope analysis carried out, please?

 

[Horsa]

How does the D.N.A. test for genealogical research work, please? According to the book I've been reading it will take non-scientists like myself all their time to just make head or tail of it but you know me. I don't like people saying things like that & I'll have a good go anyway. I will admit if I can't get it. I might call myself names & treat myself like an idiot but I'll still admit if I can't get it like I'll admit if I don't know something.