How Many Grand Slam Titles Will Djokovic End His Career With?

[Obsi]

Jesus Christ, enough of this bull$h1t. I'm only gonna reply to your last line. Federer dominated like no one before for 4 whole years.

Federer never won 4 slams in a row. Djokovic is the first man since Rod Laver in 1969 to hold all four majors at once.

Djokovic has been beating old men and Murray and a bunch of nobodies and no kids on the block who pose little to no threat to him or the top guys on the big stage from 2014-preseent and Nadal has been an absolute shell of himself the last 2 years.

Federer dominated in a weak era. Agassi was old, Nadal could not reach a semifinal at AO and USO until 2008, Djokovic was slamless until 2008, Murray was not a Top 10 player before 2008...etc...

It's so unfortunate that you still haven't grasped that 2014-present has been a very weak era in tennis. 2011-2013 was much stronger so if you want to "big up" Djokovic then at least boast about 2011 and quite rightly so 'cos Federer and Nadal were much better back then than they are now. Djokovic deserves much more praise for 2011 than 2014-present as the competition was much stronger.

Do you agree that 2011-2016 has been a stronger era than 2004-2009? Yes or no?

PS: you questioned Federer's era first here at the link below (different thread) and asked was it "weak" which started off this whole boring "debate" and we took it from there.

http://www.tennisfrontier.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=4699&pid=226978#pid226978

What you said is a lie. The link you provided shows the message I posted on 8-Apr-2016 but six days earlier on 2-Apr-2016 you posted this http://www.tennisfrontier.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=4418&pid=226639#pid226639 and it's actually the comment that started off the "weak era" debate.

 

[lob]

I am shocked that there is no 15, 16 or 17 option in the poll. All he needs is 3 more slams for 15. He is in great shape. He has won everything there is to win. He is hungry. With the confidence he has going is currently no one who can *repeatedly* take him down in slams. Rafa's Achilles' heel turned out to be his mileage. Roger's turned out be his age and Rafa/Djokovic duo. The precursors of decline were crystal clear in both cases. Rafa's injuries and Roger's record in big matches against Nole. What's the antecedent in Nole's case? Game? Body? Mind? Attitude? Confidence? Competition? Arrogance? Strategy/Tactics? Team? Distractions? Hunger? Fight/Toughness? Complacence? Age? But if Wawrinka and Roger can win majors at 29/30, can't Nole's latest version at 29/30?

Barring injury, I am going wih at the very least 15. Nole is the first all time great who started his career in the homogenized conditions era. IMO, you can't extrapolate from careers of all time greats who started before 2007.

 

[Front242]

Jesus Christ, enough of this bull$h1t. I'm only gonna reply to your last line. Federer dominated like no one before for 4 whole years.

Federer never won 4 slams in a row. Djokovic is the first man since Rod Laver in 1969 to hold all four majors at once.

Quite an achievement alright but you have to see the reality that he just beat Murray in the French open final who scored a pathetic 3 games in sets 2 and 3 combined. It worked out very well for him, no Wawrinka, no Nadal and no Federer. Basically no challenge except for 1 set in the final. Federer won 3 slams a year 3 times against tougher opponents.

Djokovic has been beating old men and Murray and a bunch of nobodies and no kids on the block who pose little to no threat to him or the top guys on the big stage from 2014-preseent and Nadal has been an absolute shell of himself the last 2 years.

Federer dominated in a weak era. Agassi was old, Nadal could not reach a semifinal at AO and USO until 2008, Djokovic was slamless until 2008, Murray was not a Top 10 player before 2008...etc...

It was not a weak era. Nadal was a beast on clay and played Federer extremely tough in 2007 on grass and won Wimbledon the following year in 2008. Djokovic only ever played prime Nadal on clay once at Roland Garros and couldn't even win a set. The guy he beat last year was a mere shell of his former self who Federer was unlucky enough to play year after year at RG. How you can type that it was a weak era with a straight face when talking about who Djokovic has been facing from 2014-present baffles me as this period (2014-present) is WAY weaker.

It's so unfortunate that you still haven't grasped that 2014-present has been a very weak era in tennis. 2011-2013 was much stronger so if you want to "big up" Djokovic then at least boast about 2011 and quite rightly so 'cos Federer and Nadal were much better back then than they are now. Djokovic deserves much more praise for 2011 than 2014-present as the competition was much stronger.

Do you agree that 2011-2016 has been a stronger era than 2004-2009? Yes or no?

No. We've been over that and I assumed you had grasped that by now. 2011 was a pretty strong year as was 2012 because while still well past it, Federer was much better than he is now. You should really be touting Novak's greatness for 2011 as that was by far his best year when the competition was strong. Problem is you're making 2011-2016 out to be the "Novak era". Sorry to inform you but while he was fantastic in 2011 winning 3 slams, he won just 1 in 2012 and 1 in 2013. Winning 1 slam a year doesn't define an era.

PS: you questioned Federer's era first here at the link below (different thread) and asked was it "weak" which started off this whole boring "debate" and we took it from there.

http://www.tennisfrontier.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=4699&pid=226978#pid226978

What you said is a lie. The link you provided shows the message I posted on 8-Apr-2016 but six days earlier on 2-Apr-2016 you posted this http://www.tennisfrontier.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=4418&pid=226639#pid226639 and it's actually the comment that started off the "weak era" debate.

Interesting definition of a "lie". It's actually called stating the obvious. Federer played guys who were better than Murray and prime Nadal who was a beast on clay unlike the Nadal we see now who can't even play his favourite slam.

 

[Riotbeard]

Jesus Christ, enough of this bull$h1t. I'm only gonna reply to your last line. Federer dominated like no one before for 4 whole years.

Federer never won 4 slams in a row. Djokovic is the first man since Rod Laver in 1969 to hold all four majors at once.

Quite an achievement alright but you have to see the reality that he just beat Murray in the French open final who scored a pathetic 3 games in sets 2 and 3 combined. It worked out very well for him, no Wawrinka, no Nadal and no Federer. Basically no challenge except for 1 set in the final. Federer won 3 slams a year 3 times against tougher opponents.

Djokovic has been beating old men and Murray and a bunch of nobodies and no kids on the block who pose little to no threat to him or the top guys on the big stage from 2014-preseent and Nadal has been an absolute shell of himself the last 2 years.

Federer dominated in a weak era. Agassi was old, Nadal could not reach a semifinal at AO and USO until 2008, Djokovic was slamless until 2008, Murray was not a Top 10 player before 2008...etc...

It was not a weak era. Nadal was a beast on clay and played Federer extremely tough in 2007 on grass and won Wimbledon the following year in 2008. Djokovic only ever played prime Nadal on clay once at Roland Garros and couldn't even win a set. The guy he beat last year was a mere shell of his former self who Federer was unlucky enough to play year after year at RG. How you can type that it was a weak era with a straight face when talking about who Djokovic has been facing from 2014-present baffles me as this period (2014-present) is WAY weaker.

It's so unfortunate that you still haven't grasped that 2014-present has been a very weak era in tennis. 2011-2013 was much stronger so if you want to "big up" Djokovic then at least boast about 2011 and quite rightly so 'cos Federer and Nadal were much better back then than they are now. Djokovic deserves much more praise for 2011 than 2014-present as the competition was much stronger.

Do you agree that 2011-2016 has been a stronger era than 2004-2009? Yes or no?

No. We've been over that and I assumed you had grasped that by now. 2011 was a pretty strong year as was 2012 because while still well past it, Federer was much better than he is now. You should really be touting Novak's greatness for 2011 as that was by far his best year when the competition was strong. Problem is you're making 2011-2016 out to be the "Novak era". Sorry to inform you but while he was fantastic in 2011 winning 3 slams, he won just 1 in 2012 and 1 in 2013. Winning 1 slam a year doesn't define an era.

PS: you questioned Federer's era first here at the link below (different thread) and asked was it "weak" which started off this whole boring "debate" and we took it from there.

http://www.tennisfrontier.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=4699&pid=226978#pid226978

What you said is a lie. The link you provided shows the message I posted on 8-Apr-2016 but six days earlier on 2-Apr-2016 you posted this http://www.tennisfrontier.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=4418&pid=226639#pid226639 and it's actually the comment that started off the "weak era" debate.

Interesting definition of a "lie". It's actually called stating the obvious. Federer played guys who were better than Murray and prime Nadal who was a beast on clay unlike the Nadal we see now who can't even play his favourite slam.

You guys are never going to agree. Give it up :cover

 

[El Dude]

I am shocked that there is no 15, 16 or 17 option in the poll.

Consider the date of the poll: it was posted just after Novak won the 2014 Wimbledon, his 7th Slam. He was 27 at the time, was in his third year in a row of one-Slam-per-year, and there was no reason to believe that he would go on the run he did in 2015-16, at an age when most players start showing signs of decline.

 

[Fiero425]

I am shocked that there is no 15, 16 or 17 option in the poll.

Consider the date of the poll: it was posted just after Novak won the 2014 Wimbledon, his 7th Slam. He was 27 at the time, was in his third year in a row of one-Slam-per-year, and there was no reason to believe that he would go on the run he did in 2015-16, at an age when most players start showing signs of decline.

But he did "on the run he did in 2015-16!" Is it frustrating to see it happen or what? I'm just over the Fedal lovefest! We needed a new rivalry and right now it's Djokurray! :angel: :dodgy: :clap

 

[GameSetAndMath]

I am shocked that there is no 15, 16 or 17 option in the poll.

Consider the date of the poll: it was posted just after Novak won the 2014 Wimbledon, his 7th Slam. He was 27 at the time, was in his third year in a row of one-Slam-per-year, and there was no reason to believe that he would go on the run he did in 2015-16, at an age when most players start showing signs of decline.

But he did "on the run he did in 2015-16!" Is it frustrating to see it happen or what? I'm just over the Fedal lovefest! We needed a new rivalry and right now it's Djokurray! :angel: :dodgy: :clap

That is the worst possible rivalry. I don't even care if Novak breaks all of Roger's records. But, I pray to god that he spares me of Djokurray finals. lease:

 

[Fiero425]

Consider the date of the poll: it was posted just after Novak won the 2014 Wimbledon, his 7th Slam. He was 27 at the time, was in his third year in a row of one-Slam-per-year, and there was no reason to believe that he would go on the run he did in 2015-16, at an age when most players start showing signs of decline.

But he did "on the run he did in 2015-16!" Is it frustrating to see it happen or what? I'm just over the Fedal lovefest! We needed a new rivalry and right now it's Djokurray! :angel: :dodgy: :clap

That is the worst possible rivalry. I don't even care if Novak breaks all of Roger's records. But, I pray to god that he spares me of Djokurray finals. lease:

What are you talking about? It rarely happens outside of Australia until recently! Look at the record books with Federer and Nadal in major final after major final! Nole has had to battle Nadal, Federer, and Murray over the years! You can't get it more balanced than that which is why he's overtaken them all H2H! :angel: :dodgy: :clap :snicker

 

[Kieran]

Gimme a break, Fiero, you're making Nole sound like a hero from Troy. He's beating bums and prom queens, and he's ahead in the H2H's because Fedal are dead, or dying.

Murray is the worst possible rival for Novak, from a tennis point of view, or the best one, from a Nole point of view. It just depends on how you like your eggs done. Murray lacks mental stamina, and big match courage and temperament. He's relatively unimaginative, and once he's gone, he's really gone, as opposed to other great players - such as Novak - who rally back in matches and renew their efforts. I like Andy, and I'm glad he got rid of his bogus feminist tendencies, as well as getting rid of the dishwasher, but defence of this Andy as some sort of Titan rival to the King reminds me of a previous Andy who was (temporarily) the main rival to Federer.

You know what I mean, buddy. You know what time it is...

 

[Fiero425]

Some people are just in total denial! :ras: :cover

 

[Kieran]

Some people are just in total denial! :ras: :cover

It's true, but don't be too hard on yourself. Listen to me and I'll get you through it...

 

[Riotbeard]

Gimme a break, Fiero, you're making Nole sound like a hero from Troy. He's beating bums and prom queens, and he's ahead in the H2H's because Fedal are dead, or dying.

Murray is the worst possible rival for Novak, from a tennis point of view, or the best one, from a Nole point of view. It just depends on how you like your eggs done. Murray lacks mental stamina, and big match courage and temperament. He's relatively unimaginative, and once he's gone, he's really gone, as opposed to other great players - such as Novak - who rally back in matches and renew their efforts. I like Andy, and I'm glad he got rid of his bogus feminist tendencies, as well as getting rid of the dishwasher, but defence of this Andy as some sort of Titan rival to the King reminds me of a previous Andy who was (temporarily) the main rival to Federer.

You know what I mean, buddy. You know what time it is...

While I don't agree with a lot in your post Kieran, it's great to have you back!

 

[Front242]

But he did "on the run he did in 2015-16!" Is it frustrating to see it happen or what? I'm just over the Fedal lovefest! We needed a new rivalry and right now it's Djokurray! :angel: :dodgy: :clap

That is the worst possible rivalry. I don't even care if Novak breaks all of Roger's records. But, I pray to god that he spares me of Djokurray finals. lease:

What are you talking about? It rarely happens outside of Australia until recently! Look at the record books with Federer and Nadal in major final after major final! Nole has had to battle Nadal, Federer, and Murray over the years! You can't get it more balanced than that which is why he's overtaken them all H2H! :angel: :dodgy: :clap :snicker

I'll tell you why he's overtaken them all in the h2h, Federer is a pensioner in tennis terms, Nadal has been a mere shell of himself for 2+ years and Murray is just not that good. Btw, it took till Federer was 34 till Djokovic overtook him and likewise till Nadal had physically declined a lot. Not exactly much to boast about.

 

[Fiero425]

^^History won't care if both Rafa and Roger were missing altogether in a major draw! They lost or didn't play at all and the tourney still went according to what would have happened regardless! Laver had problems with Rosewall and Hoad! We still give him props for his accomplishments even though he had 2 players who gave him heartburn! As far as I'm concerned, it's only valid concerning Nole the last couple years! Rafa and Federr were #1 as recently as '13 & '12 respectively! So get over it already! He can only play who's pushed in front of him; just to roll over I might add! It's hardly his fault he's so dominating that competent players just don't seem to be able to break through! Down the line, few are going to even think that way beside Fedal sycophants! :angel: :dodgy:

 

[Front242]

That couldn't be further from the truth. Federer's withdrawal from RG screwed the draw up completely and made Novak's draw laughable. You really think a healthy Nadal would've lost to Murray at RG? The whole tournament this year was a shambles. Historians will most definitely recall all the facts.

 

[Fiero425]

^^So did Murray's withdrawal a few yeas ago! It put Rafa at #4 when he should have been #5 coming back from another hiatus! That punished Nole, so look at the complete history instead of instances that bolster your argument! You should know by now it's fruitless to try that with me! My history goes back to '74 and I'll always have a legitimate counter for you! ;-/

 

[Front242]

^^So did Murray's withdrawal a few yeas ago! It put Rafa at #4 when he should have been #5 coming back from another hiatus! That punished Nole, so look at the complete history instead of instances that bolster your argument! You should know by now it's fruitless to try that with me! My history goes back to '74 and I'll always have a legitimate counter for you! ;-/

Can't recall that ever happening and by the way, if Novak's as dominating as you and others make out, it shouldn't matter anyway.

 

[Fiero425]

^^How convenient! :ras:

 

[Riotbeard]

That is the worst possible rivalry. I don't even care if Novak breaks all of Roger's records. But, I pray to god that he spares me of Djokurray finals. lease:

What are you talking about? It rarely happens outside of Australia until recently! Look at the record books with Federer and Nadal in major final after major final! Nole has had to battle Nadal, Federer, and Murray over the years! You can't get it more balanced than that which is why he's overtaken them all H2H! :angel: :dodgy: :clap :snicker

I'll tell you why he's overtaken them all in the h2h, Federer is a pensioner in tennis terms, Nadal has been a mere shell of himself for 2+ years and Murray is just not that good. Btw, it took till Federer was 34 till Djokovic overtook him and likewise till Nadal had physically declined a lot. Not exactly much to boast about.

I think the real truth is the Federer-Djokovic rivalry is suspect in general, because neither were at their peak at the same time. Djokovic-Nadal, I think the best measure is 2011-2013, where they were 7-6 thus even and the most honest measure of their talents! If all fandoms are being honest, they are pretty equally amazing players, and we are luck to have been paying attention during their reigns (even if it occasionally gets boring).

 

[Front242]

What are you talking about? It rarely happens outside of Australia until recently! Look at the record books with Federer and Nadal in major final after major final! Nole has had to battle Nadal, Federer, and Murray over the years! You can't get it more balanced than that which is why he's overtaken them all H2H! :angel: :dodgy: :clap :snicker

I'll tell you why he's overtaken them all in the h2h, Federer is a pensioner in tennis terms, Nadal has been a mere shell of himself for 2+ years and Murray is just not that good. Btw, it took till Federer was 34 till Djokovic overtook him and likewise till Nadal had physically declined a lot. Not exactly much to boast about.

I think the real truth is the Federer-Djokovic rivalry is suspect in general, because neither were at their peak at the same time. Djokovic-Nadal, I think the best measure is 2011-2013, where they were 7-6 thus even and the most honest measure of their talents! If all fandoms are being honest, they are pretty equally amazing players, and we are luck to have been paying attention during their reigns (even if it occasionally gets boring).

So true and this is the point I was trying to get across to Obsi for so long but he just can't grasp that people age lol.