How happy are you by Novak Djokovic's defeat at the USO2021?

[the AntiPusher]

I thought Nick was pathetic in his first round loss. He needs to make up his mind if he wants to play the sport or perhaps build on his media career.

I got $5 on media career

 

[the AntiPusher]

How Rafa sees it and how it actually is, aren't the same thing. His chances of reaching 25 Slams are almost nil. First of all, if he really does return to Slam-winning form, that will only inspire Novak to work harder. Secondly, the talent is gradually percolating up - this is no longer a soft top 10, with Medvedev, plus Tsitsipas and Zverev, Rublev and Berretini, and then the Young Brats (FAA, Sinner, Alcaraz) showing strong development. Not to mention Thiem wanting to re-assert himself, and all of the other dangerous players who could play spoiler.

Next Gen hasn't yet shown that it is a premier generation, but it is a helluva lot better than Lost Gen, and they're also entering their prime years as Novak and Rafa are in their mid-30s, not late 20s like they were when Raonic, Dimitrov etc were trying to break through. Meaning, peak Next Gen is not only (a lot) better than peak Lost Gen, but the old guys are older, so the gap is smaller. And the gap may actually have vanished, or that is what Medvedev hoped to have proven.

That said, maybe Rafa has one more push in him to win a couple more. But that's it, and even so the pathway is quite narrow. No way he wins five more.

Okay, we shall see. I think you were the one who had him on the tennis AARP plan back in 2014. Look how many slams he won since then. Hmmm

 

[shawnbm]

I think El Dude has some cogent points and Father Time always wins. Plus, Rafael is now a married man and he is soooo much of a big family man, those levers are likely being pulled and then one must think of other things—the most important of things. When your time comes, your loved ones and children will hopefully be there, not trophies .

I can see Nadal hoisting one more in Paris, but I have a hard time seeing him win more than that. Time out of mind and the younger, faster and confident new guys are not going to take kindly to losing to him when he returns. Same as to Ol’ Wodge (to quote Kieran), who I don’t foresee winning another major at all, not even at SW-19. He’s over forty and I think his ship has sailed now. He had two match points on his racquet at Wimbledon in 2019 and was unable to get it done. That was it. He should have been sitting at 21, but he fell just short. I think the German, Greek, Russian, and young Italian and Spaniard and FAA will be vying for championship trophies for awhile now. I have my doubts about Taliafoe and even Shapo. Thiem? He may still figure in a few.

 

[Sundaymorningguy]

Realistically, I could see Nadal winning 1 possibly 2 more slams and Djokovic winning 2-3 more slams. I don’t think any one player is going to be dominant. Right now I see everyone as jockeying for that mantle. I just don’t see it from anyone. Djokovic did well enough to fight for what he got this year, but he came through, but it showed that he had to fight a lot harder en route to get what he got.

Roger is done. His medical issues and starting and stopping, it makes it hard for him to get into any rhythm and form. Age certainly matters in being able to recover, and I don’t see him being able to do it.

Rafa well he always is a favorite at Roland Garros, so you can’t count him out. Age and medical procedures at his age make it a difficult journey for him. Recovery and getting back to competitive level especially at slams is never easy.

Djokovic so far has remained healthy and able to still compete at a high level, but will that continue who knows. Younger players are knocking on his door left and right, and for the most part this year he had the answers. He unraveled a bit this summer, but I would have expected that with what he was going for this summer.

As far as this generation of upcoming players, I think we will see them sneak in a slam or two possibly next year, but I think Djokovic will have a say in the first three slams. The US Open surprisingly has been a real Achilles heel for him. I think he especially will come out playing at the Australian Open as he feels his most comfortable and best there. Wimbledon has been a strong point for him as well. I think the French and the US Open is where many have a chance especially if Rafa is iffy before RG 2022.

 

[El Dude]

I really see this era as echoing the late 90s/early 00s, when the two most dominant players of a strong generation were still really good but starting to show age, and the new generation (e.g. Kuerten etc) was taking over, but without a singular great to lead the way. And then Federer emerged from the following group.

So we had:
Sampras and Agassi
Kuerten, Moya, Rios, etc
Federer

Now we have:
Nadal and Djokovic
Thiem, Medvedev, Zverev, Tsitsipas, etc
Sinner? FAA? Alcaraz?

I'm not suggesting that one of those "Millenial Gen" guys will be anywhere as good as Roger was, but that while I think the Next Genners have some good players, none look like a singular, dominant force. I said this a year or two ago, but I could see several of them winning in the 2-4 range, but don't see a 6+ Slam winner among them, and that the next guy to do that will be from the even younger group.

But we shall see.

 

[Andy22]

Very happy weak era king Djokovic did not deserve the 2nd grand slam Nadal still the Goat of tennis.

 

[Ellentonboy]

Well, I will just add this, and people can comment if they like. There are many posters that have absolute favorites. You know the entire GOAT scenario - Federer, Nadal, Djokovic - and I think everyone is entitled to have a favorite. What is really disappointing is that people take sides, and then make remarks to posters who are not in agreement with their view. That is the sad part. I am not saying that I feel "tennis frontier" is like that, but many forums it is an outright war and that is really unfortunate. It gets ugly, people make it personal and remembers folks - this is a sport. I feel at times that if you say even the slightest word of encouragement regarding a player that a fellow poster may not like, it is World War III. That is most unfortunate as I think we are adults here and should be able to express our views accordingly. I have only been here a short time, and everyone has been civil, and I think that is wonderful. Getting back to Novak, I think it is wonderful when someone becomes a part of history. I know he must have been terribly disappointed. The game is so physical, when I saw he had entered Tokyo I thought he was playing far too much tennis. But that was his call - the "Golden Slam" was calling his name. In the end, in NY, he fell short. I know some Nadal and Federer fans were rejoicing, I didn't even watch the final because I really don't think I could have enjoyed it. I just wonder how many years it will be before another player has the opportunity to win the Grand Slam. That is my take on the whole scenario.....

 

[Fiero425]

Well, I will just add this, and people can comment if they like. There are many posters that have absolute favorites. You know the entire GOAT scenario - Federer, Nadal, Djokovic - and I think everyone is entitled to have a favorite. What is really disappointing is that people take sides, and then make remarks to posters who are not in agreement with their view. That is the sad part. I am not saying that I feel "tennis frontier" is like that, but many forums it is an outright war and that is really unfortunate. It gets ugly, people make it personal and remembers folks - this is a sport. I feel at times that if you say even the slightest word of encouragement regarding a player that a fellow poster may not like, it is World War III. That is most unfortunate as I think we are adults here and should be able to express our views accordingly. I have only been here a short time, and everyone has been civil, and I think that is wonderful. Getting back to Novak, I think it is wonderful when someone becomes a part of history. I know he must have been terribly disappointed. The game is so physical, when I saw he had entered Tokyo I thought he was playing far too much tennis. But that was his call - the "Golden Slam" was calling his name. In the end, in NY, he fell short. I know some Nadal and Federer fans were rejoicing, I didn't even watch the final because I really don't think I could have enjoyed it. I just wonder how many years it will be before another player has the opportunity to win the Grand Slam. That is my take on the whole scenario.....

Amen and hallelujah to that! I really only "lose it" when some isolated fans lose perspective & elevate their fave with unusually fantastic opinions or commentary that aren't based in reality! I was guilty of it saying Fed was the GOAT when Nadal was owning him very early on; not just on clay! The mythos of Fedal started getting on my nerves which is why I shifted attention to Novak; actually creating a blog with his move toward greatness back in 2015! No one thought he'd surpass Fedal so quickly, but he has and is still adding to his record while they are foot-dragging their retirements! It's hard watching the tour without them they've been such a staple out there for well over 20 years! I've already slowed viewership of the ladies even though more competitive! I hope someone catches my eye on the men's tour to continue my fandom of the sport starting in '71!

 

[shawnbm]

Just a point about Federer and Nadal. Rafa went 6-1 in 2005-2006 only losing on grass to Roger. Roger made a lot of clay finals and lost to the better superstar to come. Bad luck for the Swiss. Then in 2006-2007, Federer went 5-2over Nadal up until the clay court season in 2008. Up until then it was not ownership of anyone but 8-6 for Rafael and most of those were clay events.

2008-2009 saw the first of two cycles where Nadal got the better of his rival (Novak was still new to the triumvirate) but it really was a beat down in 2010-2014. Rafa dominated Roger in those years. Then in 2017-2018, Roger dominated Rafa losing only once (in Paris) over a stretch of seven matches. So, it has gone back and forth but Nadal certainly was more dominant after 2008 for a number of years. As to “owning Roger”, I get it but there were really a series of streaks.

 

[Fiero425]

Just a point about Federer and Nadal. Rafa went 6-1 in 2005-2006 only losing on grass to Roger. Roger made a lot of clay finals and lost to the better superstar to come. Bad luck for the Swiss. Then in 2006-2007, Federer went 5-2over Nadal up until the clay court season in 2008. Up until then it was not ownership of anyone but 8-6 for Rafael and most of those were clay events.

2008-2009 saw the first of two cycles where Nadal got the better of his rival (Novak was still new to the triumvirate) but it really was a beat down in 2010-2014. Rafa dominated Roger in those years. Then in 2017-2018, Roger dominated Rafa losing only once (in Paris) over a stretch of seven matches. So, it has gone back and forth but Nadal certainly was more dominant after 2008 for a number of years. As to “owning Roger”, I get it but there were really a series of streaks.

After all said & done, that was a lot of posting to say "yeah, you're right @Fiero425 after initially disputing your premise!".....

 

[Kieran]

Well, I will just add this, and people can comment if they like. There are many posters that have absolute favorites. You know the entire GOAT scenario - Federer, Nadal, Djokovic - and I think everyone is entitled to have a favorite. What is really disappointing is that people take sides, and then make remarks to posters who are not in agreement with their view. That is the sad part. I am not saying that I feel "tennis frontier" is like that, but many forums it is an outright war and that is really unfortunate. It gets ugly, people make it personal and remembers folks - this is a sport. I feel at times that if you say even the slightest word of encouragement regarding a player that a fellow poster may not like, it is World War III. That is most unfortunate as I think we are adults here and should be able to express our views accordingly. I have only been here a short time, and everyone has been civil, and I think that is wonderful. Getting back to Novak, I think it is wonderful when someone becomes a part of history. I know he must have been terribly disappointed. The game is so physical, when I saw he had entered Tokyo I thought he was playing far too much tennis. But that was his call - the "Golden Slam" was calling his name. In the end, in NY, he fell short. I know some Nadal and Federer fans were rejoicing, I didn't even watch the final because I really don't think I could have enjoyed it. I just wonder how many years it will be before another player has the opportunity to win the Grand Slam. That is my take on the whole scenario.....

Great post! And given that Novak is only the second player in Open tennis to wash up at the last slam of the year with the first three in his pocket, it's not even a rhetorical question you ask at the end, it's been so far a once-in-several-generations opportunity that he had this summer. It really is tennis Holy Grail, which brings me to your mentioning Novak playing Tokyo, playing too much tennis. I totally agree. I don't see why he didn't prioritise the CYGS at the expense of the Olympics, but I suppose with no fellow greats to hound him, he thought he'd have enough in him, to get by. It was a savage miscalculation...

 

[Kieran]

Amen and hallelujah to that! I really only "lose it" when some isolated fans lose perspective & elevate their fave with unusually fantastic opinions or commentary that aren't based in reality! I was guilty of it saying Fed was the GOAT when Nadal was owning him very early on; not just on clay! The mythos of Fedal started getting on my nerves which is why I shifted attention to Novak; actually creating a blog with his move toward greatness back in 2015! No one thought he'd surpass Fedal so quickly, but he has and is still adding to his record while they are foot-dragging their retirements! It's hard watching the tour without them they've been such a staple out there for well over 20 years! I've already slowed viewership of the ladies even though more competitive! I hope someone catches my eye on the men's tour to continue my fandom of the sport starting in '71!

I think a few Fedal fans shifted over to Novak when the Fedal Wars became too toxic. Several times also on social media I've come to conclude that a lot of Novak fans weren't even tennis fans before they saw him, but he's a fellow Serb and they're loudly proclaiming him. Rafa and Roger grabbed the attention of tennis fans in a way that hadn't been seen since Borg-McEnroe, and by the time Novak became a truly great player in 2011, the fans had largely been split between Fedal.

The men's tour is already sliding into a dark age, awaiting the next dramatic giants, and so little wonder that the women's was more interesting this year. The men's has become stale for a long time, really, with the field gathering such meagre pickings over the last two decades. It's extraordinary, but it's also damning of the field, and the men's game, by extension. People used to get het up when I'd remind them that Roger was racking up slams too easy before he faced a fellow great player, but I also said - and still believe - that it's damning of the men's game that Rafa has 13 FO's, when the previous record was a only 6. Roger has 6 Oz titles, and now Novak has 9, when the previous Open Era record was a paltry 4. So many records have been obliterated, like as if we're watching a generation of sprinters running sub-6 second 100m's...

 

[Jelenafan]

Sorry, but I almost feel like this was a trolling thread, it was phrased like a popularity contest.

Novak winning the CYGS would have been cool, but as it is he will have an unprecedented 7 years at #1 in the Open Era.

Novak can easily go on another tear, but it depends if the next generation can piggybank off Medvedev's breakthrough. Tsitsipas can be streaky, and not in a good way, but he came close to the breakthrough. Zverev is also close. These three (Medvedev, Tsitsipas & Zverev) have an opportunity at the AO HC to make a statement.

Federer I feel is done, . All his conditioning/training /therapy and rest can't compensate for a body that won't cooperate. He certainly did not overplay this season, but his body couldn't take it. As a 40/41 year old next year he's probably hoping for an abbreviated , short farewell at a few beloved tournaments such as Wimbledon.

The real wild card IMO is Rafa. Is HIS body done, at age 35 or can he mount a competitive, credible campaign for one or two more seasons? ON clay you can't count him out, and on HC and grass he is a factor when healthy. The prime word being healthy. He's been written off 4 or 5 times in his career so of course his detractors are coming out of the woodwork to state that once again (hope springs eternal) but we are going to have to wait to see how 2022 looks.

 

[tented]

Just a point about Federer and Nadal. Rafa went 6-1 in 2005-2006 only losing on grass to Roger.

Rafa also lost to Roger in Miami in the 2005 final.

 

[Fiero425]

Rafa also lost to Roger in Miami in the 2005 final.

When it comes to Fedal in Miami, I can only recall an earlier Rd. match they played where Roger upset Rafa giving the "fingerwag" of "not dead yet!"

 

[Fiero425]

Sorry, but I almost feel like this was a trolling thread, it was phrased like a popularity contest.

Novak winning the CYGS would have been cool, but as it is he will have an unprecedented 7 years at #1 in the Open Era.

Novak can easily go on another tear, but it depends if the next generation can piggybank off Medvedev's breakthrough. Tsitsipas can be streaky, and not in a good way, but he came close to the breakthrough. Zverev is also close. These three (Medvedev, Tsitsipas & Zverev) have an opportunity at the AO HC to make a statement.

Federer I feel is done, . All his conditioning/training /therapy and rest can't compensate for a body that won't cooperate. He certainly did not overplay this season, but his body couldn't take it. As a 40/41 year old next year he's probably hoping for an abbreviated , short farewell at a few beloved tournaments such as Wimbledon.

The real wild card IMO is Rafa. Is HIS body done, at age 35 or can he mount a competitive, credible campaign for one or two more seasons? ON clay you can't count him out, and on HC and grass he is a factor when healthy. The prime word being healthy. He's been written off 4 or 5 times in his career so of course his detractors are coming out of the woodwork to state that once again (hope springs eternal) but we are going to have to wait to see how 2022 looks.

All true! I just wonder about the competency of those who are saying Novak is done because he lost 1 match in 4 Majors, winning 27! It's been the total extremes of half saying "by winning the '21 USO and completing the CYGS, it would set him apart from Fedal for good" over the other half who think "he'll spiral out of the top rung right away dropping AO in '22!" It makes little to no sense because we've all been wrong so often dealing with these 3 players over the years! Not sure Roger could summon up enough to do much else on the tour but say "farewell!" Even with the deal he had to of made with The Devil in 2017, his reward was a heartbreaking loss with 2 MP's at his favorite event in '19! He hung on for over 5 years to win those 3 majors to hold off the inevitable and puffed up his weeks at #1, but in the end it only sets him more apart from past GOATs Borg & Sampras! Nadal's playing possum; getting his rest by not playing for the rest of this season, and will be ready to try and get that elusive 2nd AO so he can match Nole's "Double CGS!" There's no reason Nadal shouldn't have another good run on clay, culminating in a 14th FO, but if the NG can finally assert itself, that might push him overboard with Roger on the sidelines of the tour!

 

[Kieran]

Even with the deal he had to of made with The Devil in 2017

Ah, the deal with the devil, when old Gerontius became a child again, innocent and playful, and dashing about in the midday Sun. What a peculiar sight that was. I remember a BBC reporter telling us, without a smidge of irony, that Federer was incredible, that at the age of 35 he’d added “staggering stamina” to his game. How we all applauded!

Great post, brother, though I think you’re being a little shrewd about Rafa, he has a serious foot condition, and we hope he can play in Oz, and win it, but neither of these things is guaranteed. Good point also about how Novak would have become the supreme deity had he won against Medvedev, but the fact he lost proves he’s a bum. However, he’s got to deal with this now, and it won’t be easy. I imagine he’s still kicking himself. It may affect him, and so may the confidence boost Medvedev has now…

 

[shawnbm]

Rafa also lost to Roger in Miami in the 2005 final.

Forgot about that one—the comeback from two sets down

 

[Fjaka2.0]

Of course coudnt be happy as a Nole Fan.

But this year so far, all the way to this finale, was a hell of a ride for us Novak Fans and surely also some neutral tennis fans.


i really think, beside fandom, we lost an unique opportunity in our lifetime to witness the biggest goal this sport offers.
Cannot imagine another player can get that close.

 

[shawnbm]

Of course coudnt be happy as a Nole Fan.

But this year so far, all the way to this finale, was a hell of a ride for us Novak Fans and surely also some neutral tennis fans.


i really think, beside fandom, we lost an unique opportunity in our lifetime to witness the biggest goal this sport offers.
Cannot imagine another player can get that close.

Well, Roger Federer was close twice—lost the final to Nadal in Paris in 2006-07 but won all the rest. That was close.