HALLE - ATP 500 - June 13th to 19th 2016

[Front242]

Zverev is very lanky though so injuries are likely and, well, Thiem is overplaying a ton already (the new Ferrer/Davydenko) and now injured so one has body issues that are likely to cause injury and the other is currently a scheduling moron.

 

[Riotbeard]

Players have to know when to quit. Today Roger is third in the world. Why quit? If anyone was going to make a move to pass him they would have done so. What does this say about the present players on the ATP tour? Answer, it isn't good. Federer is playing with house money. He has done the heavy lifting in his career. Federer does NOT NEED to accomplish anything. Been there done that so to speak. Today in Halle is the first time he has played back to back four days in a row since his return. Thus, he needs the work. His opponent did not beat him today. Fed stunk. Roger will improve. Why? Because his fundamentals are so good. It's like Larry Bird shooting foul shots. Reportedly Bird can still shoot 90% fooling around. Federer's strokes will return. He only knows the correct way to hit the ball. Excellent fundamentals don't just happen. Many of his shots today in Halle he was falling backwards and hitting off his back foot. That will change. He just had a bad day hitting the ball or he got out of bed on the wrong side. You don't play consistently for five months negative things happen. Is he going to be the Federer of 2006 again? Of course not, but he is still a top 5 player. I would not retire if I were him either. Where else will he make this kind of money and have so much fun?

It's not fun losing to players you should beat and it's not fun for fans to watch either. Hopefully his movement will improve because, right now, if he's this poor in best of 3, best of 5 doesn't bode too well :nono

It's only his second tournament back! I think he's made good progress. The big hope is probably more for the next season than this one!

 

[Front242]

It's not fun losing to players you should beat and it's not fun for fans to watch either. Hopefully his movement will improve because, right now, if he's this poor in best of 3, best of 5 doesn't bode too well :nono

It's only his second tournament back! I think he's made good progress. The big hope is probably more for the next season than this one!

He's 35 though in August and this whole season so far is a write off. He either can't run down shots or isn't attempting to do so to avoid re-injury. Either way it's not good and this whole year is going downhill fast. He's going to have to be even more physical at the slams with best of 5 and at this rate won't make the 2nd week of Wimbledon. Sure, he can still be good next year but there's half this year left and I'm sure he's as gutted as his fans are.

 

[El Dude]

Zevrev is the first teenager to beat Fed in about 10 years. The last time it happened was when Andy Murray defeated Federer in Cincy in the 2nd round in 2006.

Somehow I think Zevrev will go to greater heights than Thiem (when both these young fellows hang up).

I very much agree, although it isn't a stretch considering Zverev is three and a half years younger, but only about a year or so behind developmentally.

 

[Riotbeard]

It's not fun losing to players you should beat and it's not fun for fans to watch either. Hopefully his movement will improve because, right now, if he's this poor in best of 3, best of 5 doesn't bode too well :nono

It's only his second tournament back! I think he's made good progress. The big hope is probably more for the next season than this one!

He's 35 though in August and this whole season so far is a write off. He either can't run down shots or isn't attempting to do so to avoid re-injury. Either way it's not good and this whole year is going downhill fast. He's going to have to be even more physical at the slams with best of 5 and at this rate won't make the 2nd week of Wimbledon. Sure, he can still be good next year but there's half this year left and I'm sure he's as gutted as his fans are.

I am not sure. I think Federer might be more realistic than his fans. In a recent interview, he said he was not even sure he would be able to play both stuttgart and Halle. I doubt Federer was expecting to be into form to win Wimbledon or even go further than the semis. Next year is a more realistic goal. He has had some good wins coming back from injury.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Roger spot on in the presser that he needs better baseline game .

 

[lob]

[/quote]
year left and I'm sure he's as gutted as his fans are.
[/quote]

:cover

 

[herios]

Mayer - Zverev 5-2, 5-7, 6-3.

What a performance by Mayer, his only second title of his career, 5 years after his first one on clay.
And this ranked 192, coming back from an injury.
Well done by the veteran (he is 32).
I think nobody will be thrilled if they will see him in their draw at Wimbledon.

 

[Front242]

Great going alright. Didn't realize he was off for almost 1.5 years with his injury.

 

[El Dude]

It was also the biggest tournament won by "Gen Federer" (b. 1979-83) this year, although Mayer is on the cusp (b. 1983).

Zverev is now 0-2 in ATP finals. He shouldn't sweat it, though: Roger Federer also lost his first two title matches, both in 2000 around the same age as Zverev. Murray and Nadal lost their first but won their second, and Novak won his first.

I have no doubt that Zverev will win his first title soon - if not this year, then early next. Maybe the building pressure will burst and push him through to the next level (top 10).

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Mayer - Zverev 5-2, 5-7, 6-3.

What a performance by Mayer, his only second title of his career, 5 years after his first one on clay.
And this ranked 192, coming back from an injury.
Well done by the veteran (he is 32).
I think nobody will be thrilled if they will see him in their draw at Wimbledon.

While Mayer deserves congratulations for making good use of the opportunities that arose, I would not go so far as to assert the bolded statement of yours.

Mayer got quite lucky. He defeated 5 players to win this tourney. Of these 5, I will not count 2. Nishi did not even play and gave a walk over. Thiem, even though he played, was dead on arrival with fatigue and hip injury. The highest ranked player among the other three that he beat is ranked 29 (Lucas) and the others are ranked 38 (Seppi) and 40 (Zevrev). To boot it all, he got a green horn in the final, who is coming off from a big upset and is bound to have a let down.

 

[herios]

I have no doubt that Zverev will win his first title soon - if not this year, then early next. Maybe the building pressure will burst and push him through to the next level (top 10).

Zverev will have his chances no doubt. All the best players start by winning a low key 250 usually. There will be plenty of those just right after Wimbledon on clay, where the top players are generally not showing up.
Thiem also started with wins in those events.
Top 10 is a bit too optimistic at this point for Sasha. Top 20 is rather doable. There are some serious point gaps in that range.

 

[El Dude]

Yeah, I agree. I think he can sneak into the top 20 this year, top 10 next. In a way what he is doing this year is consolidating his seeding at Slams - he's solidly within the top 32, and will likely stay so for the foreseeable future (barring injury). That will give him more opportunities to creep up in points, making it later in Slams.

But the next step is the top 20, which requires winning some minor titles and/or making it the 4R or so and beyond at Slams. The top 10 requires winning ATP 500s and better, and making the second week at Slams. The Top 5 requires winning the occasional Masters and/or Slam semifinals and finals.

Going from #83 at the end of 2015 to #28 in seven months is good development, but I think we can hope for another ten rankings or so...but he needs to start winning minor titles and making it beyond the early rounds at Slams.

 

[Fiero425]

Yeah, I agree. I think he can sneak into the top 20 this year, top 10 next. In a way what he is doing this year is consolidating his seeding at Slams - he's solidly within the top 32, and will likely stay so for the foreseeable future (barring injury). That will give him more opportunities to creep up in points, making it later in Slams.

But the next step is the top 20, which requires winning some minor titles and/or making it the 4R or so and beyond at Slams. The top 10 requires winning ATP 500s and better, and making the second week at Slams. The Top 5 requires winning the occasional Masters and/or Slam semifinals and finals.

Going from #83 at the end of 2015 to #28 in seven months is good development, but I think we can hope for another ten rankings or so...but he needs to start winning minor titles and making it beyond the early rounds at Slams.

This year won't be the problem; he's exceeded all expectations already! The "Deb Downer" in me has to remind folks, it'll be tough defending all these points! The same can be said of our other fave in Theim, but they've given us reason to think they might be different and better than others like Dimitrov that ripped the hearts out of true tennis fans! :nono

 

[El Dude]

This year won't be the problem; he's exceeded all expectations already! The "Deb Downer" in me has to remind folks, it'll be tough defending all these points! The same can be said of our other fave in Theim, but they've given us reason to think they might be different and better than others like Dimitrov that ripped the hearts out of true tennis fans! :nono

Yeah, I hear you, but "all those points" are built from modest results. It's not like he has a stray Slam SF to defend, or a Masters final (see "Janowicz, Jerzy").

Actually, Sascha's best point hauls this year are:

Indian Wells Masters 4R (90)
Nice ATP 250 Final (150)
Roland Garros Slam 3R (90)
Halle ATP 500 (300)

That's more than half (630) of his Race to London points so far (1070). I don't see anything that would be hard to defend and surpass next year.

One of the biggest signs of future greats is that they don't stall out in their development - they keep going up, at least once they hit age 20 or so (e.g. Rafa was ranked around #50 for a couple years before his breakout season in 2005, at age 18-19; Sampras was also steady at #97 and then #81 before jumping to #5 at age 19). This may also be what separates someone like Zverev (and hopefully Fritz) from the Corics and Chungs of the world.