Federer & Nadal: The Erasers

[britbox]

I noticed that both Roger & Rafa have done the impossible, but in a different way. They both have "erased" tier 1 champions, please allow me to elaborate.

Federer has erased Sampras and Djokovic by matching or surpassing them in each slam. Basically, neither Sampras or Djokovic can say that they are better than Federer in any of the slams, he covers them everywhere.

Federer 6 AO, 1 RG, 8 WB, 5 USO
Sampras 2 AO, 0 RG, 7 WB, 5 USO

Federer 6 AO, 1 RG, 8 WB, 5 USO
Djokovic 6 AO, 1 RG, 4 WB, 2 USO

Nadal has erased Laver and Borg by matching their total career slams (AO, RG, WB, USO combined) with only one slam (RG). Kind of insane.

Nadal 11 RG
Laver 11 AO/RG/WB/USO
Borg 11 AO/RG/WB/USO

IMO, this eliminates Sampras, Laver, Djokovic and Borg from any claim to be the greatest of all-time. Federer and Nadal have managed to erase them, albeit in a different but equally impressive fashion. I just find it to be such an incredible feat.

Even if Djokovic wins the USO again he will still be erased by Federer. He will really need to win another AO or RG to have any decent claim over Federer.

I think this is a bit simplistic.

Borg erased himself from this argument by retiring early. He was also a product of his time by not playing the AO.

Laver played the pro tour, so his GS numbers are never going to stack up in the first place.

 

[19USC66]

Interesting way to look at it. I do give Djokovic the tiebreak over Roger at AO due to H2H there and overall dominance. Similarly I give Federer the tiebreak for best player ever at USO for winning 5 in a row though you could argue Connors since he won it on multiple surfaces. But I agree with the idea that Borg, Sampras and Djokovic are far away from GOAT candidates. Maybe Djokovic can still get there but it's a big ask at this point.

Laver's case is more interesting as he wasn't able to compete for majors for a large portion of his career and he also has the calendar year slam during the Open Era.

Of course you won't agree but I think Rafa is clearly not as great as Federer as of now but he is close and has been for awhile and is 5 years younger. We will see where they are when it's all said and done.

As long as the ATP and ITF continue to allow courts to be slowed down to a crawl. Djokovic or Nadal will dominate. The court at the US OPEN this year was embarrassingly slow. Federer has no chance on these surfaces. To me and I will be flamed for this. Nadal, Djokoivc, and Murray are all the same players. Only with different degrees of tennis skill. These slow courts have helped them enormously. Sampras would be hard pressed to win one major in these conditions. Del Potro with arguably the hardest fore hand in the sport and maybe tennis history? Could not get balls through the court on Sunday. Something is terribly amiss. With this approach the Serve, the most important shot in tennis is diminished almost entirely. Djokovic, Murray, and Nadal are not great servers. Thus, retrievers dominate. Why do you think Roger has done so well two years in a row at the AO? Court speed got amped up. Like it or not there is a message in there someplace. I always felt Clay was the great equalizer. Today Wimbledon and the US OPEN have been slowed to a crawl. The speeds of these courts may also be the reason the old guys are still dominating? Something to ponder? Regarding Federer? Roger is 37 years old and been on tour for twenty years. As Chris Evert stated last week. When you play on the tour that long your head becomes the problem.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

As long as the ATP and ITF continue to allow courts to be slowed down to a crawl. Djokovic or Nadal will dominate. The court at the US OPEN this year was embarrassingly slow. Federer has no chance on these surfaces. To me and I will be flamed for this. Nadal, Djokoivc, and Murray are all the same players. Only with different degrees of tennis skill. These slow courts have helped them enormously. Sampras would be hard pressed to win one major in these conditions. Del Potro with arguably the hardest fore hand in the sport and maybe tennis history? Could not get balls through the court on Sunday. Something is terribly amiss. With this approach the Serve, the most important shot in tennis is diminished almost entirely. Djokovic, Murray, and Nadal are not great servers. Thus, retrievers dominate. Why do you think Roger has done so well two years in a row at the AO? Court speed got amped up. Like it or not there is a message in there someplace. I always felt Clay was the great equalizer. Today Wimbledon and the US OPEN have been slowed to a crawl. The speeds of these courts may also be the reason the old guys are still dominating? Something to ponder? Regarding Federer? Roger is 37 years old and been on tour for twenty years. As Chris Evert stated last week. When you play on the tour that long your head becomes the problem.

Even Isner made it further than Federer. Stop trolling. The more the game becomes powerful the more they will try to slow down the surfaces and the balls, otherwise there will be no decent rallies. This is not the 80's and 90's anymore, even tons of women players hit serves consistently over 110 mph, it's normal that surfaces had to be slowed down..

 

[19USC66]

Even Isner made it further than Federer. Stop trolling. The more the game becomes powerful the more they will try to slow down the surfaces and the balls, otherwise there will be no decent rallies. This is not the 80's and 90's anymore, even tons of women players hit serves consistently over 110 mph, it's normal that surfaces had to be slowed down..

Laughing. Nonsense. How has Isner made a great career? Two words. The serve. Federer does not have a 135 mile serve. Again, the most important shot in tennis is the
serve. Del Potro could hit through Nadal, but not Djokovic. Novak is a better player than Nadal and before he is through he should pass Fed also. However, the speed of courts have helped him tremendously. The court was so slow at this year's Open Novak looked like he was strolling through Central Park. He played Del Potro and was never pressured. Did anyone really feel JDP was going to win? Not if you were serious.

 

[The_Grand_Slam]

Laughing. Nonsense. How has Isner made a great career? Two words. The serve. Federer does not have a 135 mile serve. Again, the most important shot in tennis is the
serve. Del Potro could hit through Nadal, but not Djokovic. Novak is a better player than Nadal and before he is through he should pass Fed also. However, the speed of courts have helped him tremendously. The court was so slow at this year's Open Novak looked like he was strolling through Central Park. He played Del Potro and was never pressured. Did anyone really feel JDP was going to win? Not if you were serious.

Slow high bouncing courts help Isner much more than Faster ones because he can hold serve on any surface but on the faster ones he can't get into any return games.
That's why except the high bouncing grass of this year his best grand slam results had come on clay

 

[DarthFed]

Even Isner made it further than Federer. Stop trolling. The more the game becomes powerful the more they will try to slow down the surfaces and the balls, otherwise there will be no decent rallies. This is not the 80's and 90's anymore, even tons of women players hit serves consistently over 110 mph, it's normal that surfaces had to be slowed down..

The points you make are legit reasons for it but the fact of the matter is it is overblown. Australia sped up and they've had plenty of great rallies and matches the last two years. The players and racquets are more powerful but the players are also faster and all-around more skilled as well. Even watching lightning fast grass like Halle there are still plenty of rallies like the final this year with Fed and Coric.

 

[isabelle]

He would need 6 USO since Federer has 5. His best bets are winning another AO or FO in order to seperate himself from eraser Federer.

Nole already erased old Sampras, why wouldn't he do the same with his Swiss clone ??? don't know if he can stay healthy and consistant but if he can, why not ??

 

[Nadalfan2013]

Nole already erased old Sampras, why wouldn't he do the same with his Swiss clone ??? don't know if he can stay healthy and consistant but if he can, why not ??

Obviously you have not read the thread.

To become an Eraser you have to:

a) equal or outperform another ATG in each slam (kind of like what Federer did to Sampras & Djokovic in each slam)

b) equal or outperform another ATG's total slams with only 1 slam (kind of like what Nadal did to Borg & Laver's total slams (AO,RG,W,USO) with only his RG titles)

In order for Djokovic to erase Sampras, he either has to have 7 Wimbledons and 5 USO for option a, or he must have 14 AOs for option b.

Good luck with that. B-)

 

[Moxie]

Nole already erased old Sampras, why wouldn't he do the same with his Swiss clone ??? don't know if he can stay healthy and consistant but if he can, why not ??

No, he just tied Pete. There was a lot of debating between Pete and Rafa when Nadal tied him. Novak doesn't just get a pass upon tying.

 

[Carol]

Nadal at Cannes Yatching Festival

G

 

[isabelle]

No, he just tied Pete. There was a lot of debating between Pete and Rafa when Nadal tied him. Novak doesn't just get a pass upon tying.

did Nole erase Sampras ? he has one RG, Sampras zero...does it count ?

 

[Moxie]

did Nole erase Sampras ? he has one RG, Sampras zero...does it count ?

That was my argument when Nadal tied Pete. I'm just saying there were plenty of people who said 14 = 14. Now no push-back.

 

[roberto]

I think when one starts to parse grand slam victories by surface, level of competition, etc., it becomes a slippery slope. All of the top 3 major winners currently playing have a diversity of wins across surfaces, except Roger and Nole only have 1 FO apiece. On the other hand, Rafa has "only" 2 AO's and 2 Wimbledons, vs. much higher totals by the other two. Suffice it to say, they have and will continue to accomplish incredible feats, especially when playing against the other two GOAT's!

 

[El Dude]

I see Rafa's without his "beard."