Exciting times to be a Novak fan...

[GameSetAndMath]

And also in fairness, if Novak passes Rafa in the H2H, it will also have been past Nadal's prime, as well as when he passes him in MS count, which seems a certainty.

Neither Roger nor Rafa can use the "past prime" excuse if Novak surpasses them in Masters title count as it is an achievement done through the entire playing career of a player.

"past prime" excuse can be used only for H2H when one player beats up another player of different age group. Roger could resort to that excuse perhaps but not Rafa considering that Roger is 6 years older than Novak whereas Novak and Rafa are the same age group (just one year difference).

You may counter by saying that they may be of the same age group, but Rafa is at a disadvantage now as he is clearly past prime. While that may be a disadvantage, Rafa had an advantage over Novak as he peaked at a much younger age. So, if you want the period from now not to be counted in their H2H, then one could reasonable argue that the pre-2011 period of H2H should also not be counted.

 

[Moxie]

And also in fairness, if Novak passes Rafa in the H2H, it will also have been past Nadal's prime, as well as when he passes him in MS count, which seems a certainty.

Neither Roger nor Rafa can use the "past prime" excuse if Novak surpasses them in Masters title count as it is an achievement done through the entire playing career of a player.

"past prime" excuse can be used only for H2H when one player beats up another player of different age group. Roger could resort to that excuse perhaps but not Rafa considering that Roger is 6 years older than Rafa whereas Novak and Rafa are the same age group (just one year difference).

You may counter by saying that they may be of the same age group, but Rafa is at a disadvantage now as he is clearly past prime. While that may be a disadvantage, Rafa had an advantage over Novak as he peaked at a much younger age. So, if you want the period from now not to be counted in their H2H, then one could reasonable argue that the pre-2011 period of H2H should also not be counted.

I think I conceded that Novak will surely be the Master of the Masters. Chill out, and stop anticipating my counter-arguments. You might have quoted my whole post, which continued: "...Also, Nole is all but certain to get the "box set" when he finally gets Cincy. Roger and Rafa each are missing 2, with Rafa still having an outside chance at Miami. So as to Master of the Masters, I think he will be, Dude." Hey, Rafa was the king of the Masters for a long time, as was Agassi, before him. I agree it's not a head to head thing, nor even about generations. Novak is dominating the MS, and will continue to for the foreseeable future.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Being past your prime, being an early bloomer, not staying at your peak level for long, or flat out retiring early (Borg) can never be used as an excuse for why someone wins more titles when it's all said and done.

If you're past your prime and someone has won more titles, then props to them for either staying in their prime longer, still winning titles while being past their prime, or making the most out of their prime. If you're an early bloomer and won more titles early than someone who didn't peak until a few years later, then props to you for being able to win so early. If you win more titles than someone because they retired early (unless it's due to a career ending injury or some accident or anything like that), then props to you for handling the pressure and the burnout better.

Head to head is a different issue, as beating a 2006 Federer is not the same as beating a 2013 Federer. Beating a 2010 Nadal is not the same as beating a 2015 Nadal, and it works in reverse too, as beating a 2006 Novak is not the same as beating a 2015 Novak.

 

[Fiero425]

Being past your prime, being an early bloomer, not staying at your peak for long, or flat out retiring early (Borg) can never be used as an excuse for why someone wins more titles when it's all said and done.

If you're past your prime and someone has won more titles, then props to them for either staying in their prime longer, still winning titles while being past their prime, or making the most out of their prime. If you're an early bloomer and won more titles early than someone who didn't peak until a few years later, then props to you for being able to win so early. If you win more titles than someone because they retired early (unless it's due to a career ending injury or some accident or anything like that), then props to you for handling the pressure and the burnout better.

Head to head is a different issue, as beating a 2006 Federer is not the same as beating a 2013 Federer. Beating a 2010 Nadal is not the same as beating a 2015 Nadal, and it works in reverse too, as beating a 2006 Novak is not the same as beating a 2015 Novak.

A 100 years down the line, no one will care about dates, ages, or the period when in their prime! Connors had been around for well over 5 or 6 years before McEnroe came along! This was about the same dynamics as Federer and Nadal except that the dominance went one way and rarely went the other way! Connors actually had a resurgence in '82 & '83, taking 3 majors with Borg not around to thwart him! Lendl was still a little emotionally fragile initially against Jimmy, but when he took over the rivalry, it was one sided; just as it was with Borg! I just can't see Roger being able to turn it around; even on grass at this point! Rafa's struggling, but I'm not sure he'd lose to Roger at Wimbledon! :angel: :dodgy:

 

[Kieran]

You're all counting up a lot of stuff in advance for Nole again, things he hasn't done yet. This happened in Paris too, the celebrating before the job was done, then dreaming of the calendar year slam...

 

[Fiero425]

You're all counting up a lot of stuff in advance for Nole again, things he hasn't done yet. This happened in Paris too, the celebrating before the job was done, then dreaming of the calendar year slam...

By whom? Fans are responsible for Nole coming up short? I'm pretty sure he wasn't counting his chickens before they were hatched! Do you think he had already checked the French Open off his list of things to do? :ras: :angel: :dodgy:

 

[Kieran]

You're all counting up a lot of stuff in advance for Nole again, things he hasn't done yet. This happened in Paris too, the celebrating before the job was done, then dreaming of the calendar year slam...

By whom? Fans are responsible for Nole coming up short? I'm pretty sure he wasn't counting his chickens before they were hatched! Do you think he had already checked the French Open off his list of things to do? :ras: :angel: :dodgy:

No. But I know that you and others had already checked it off as a "thing done" - when it wasn't.

 

[Fiero425]

You're all counting up a lot of stuff in advance for Nole again, things he hasn't done yet. This happened in Paris too, the celebrating before the job was done, then dreaming of the calendar year slam...

By whom? Fans are responsible for Nole coming up short? I'm pretty sure he wasn't counting his chickens before they were hatched! Do you think he had already checked the French Open off his list of things to do? :ras: :angel: :dodgy:

No. But I know that you and others had already checked it off as a "thing done" - when it wasn't.

So you're saying it is "WE" the fans that caused him to lose that final? I see! - :cover :nono

 

[Kieran]

By whom? Fans are responsible for Nole coming up short? I'm pretty sure he wasn't counting his chickens before they were hatched! Do you think he had already checked the French Open off his list of things to do? :ras: :angel: :dodgy:

No. But I know that you and others had already checked it off as a "thing done" - when it wasn't.

So you're saying it is "WE" the fans that caused him to lose that final? I see! - :cover :nono

No! :laydownlaughing

I dunno how you got that. What I'm saying is, you're already counting up record MS titles for him, H2Hs that he's not ahead in but you're sure he will be. Give it a few months and you'll all be celebrating next years FO again, certain that it's his. That happened this year, but unfortunately he came up short...

 

[brokenshoelace]

By whom? Fans are responsible for Nole coming up short? I'm pretty sure he wasn't counting his chickens before they were hatched! Do you think he had already checked the French Open off his list of things to do? :ras: :angel: :dodgy:

No. But I know that you and others had already checked it off as a "thing done" - when it wasn't.

So you're saying it is "WE" the fans that caused him to lose that final? I see! - :cover :nono

Fiero, don't worry, nobody's talking about you when they refer to Novak fans. They're just referring to Novak fans

 

[Riotbeard]

No. But I know that you and others had already checked it off as a "thing done" - when it wasn't.

So you're saying it is "WE" the fans that caused him to lose that final? I see! - :cover :nono

No! :laydownlaughing

I dunno how you got that. What I'm saying is, you're already counting up record MS titles for him, H2Hs that he's not ahead in but you're sure he will be. Give it a few months and you'll all be celebrating next years FO again, certain that it's his. That happened this year, but unfortunately he came up short...

I don't think too many novak fans checked the F.O. off the list. We were optimistic, how could you not be. I pick Novak to win every tournament :angel:. I do think Novak fans were more worried about facing Stan than many others, having been burned or nearly so many times in the last couple years. Once again I picked Novak to win. I think at least most novak fans cautioned against discussing the calender slam until after wimbledon...

Just saying.

 

[kskate2]

They were a bit more than optimistic. And like you said, how could they not be w/ the state of Nadal's game and the insane level Novak has been at this year.

 

[nehmeth]

So you're saying it is "WE" the fans that caused him to lose that final? I see! - :cover :nono

No! :laydownlaughing

I dunno how you got that. What I'm saying is, you're already counting up record MS titles for him, H2Hs that he's not ahead in but you're sure he will be. Give it a few months and you'll all be celebrating next years FO again, certain that it's his. That happened this year, but unfortunately he came up short...

I don't think too many novak fans checked the F.O. off the list. We were optimistic, how could you not be. I pick Novak to win every tournament :angel:. I do think Novak fans were more worried about facing Stan than many others, having been burned or nearly so many times in the last couple years. Once again I picked Novak to win. I think at least most novak fans cautioned against discussing the calender slam until after wimbledon...

Just saying.

Ralf's fans just having a bit of fun to with us to ease the pain of their guy's preciptous drop in form.

I was quite optimistic right up until Nole let Andy get his teeth into their semifinal at RG. It's hard to feel too heart broken when Stan was redlining most of the match.

We'll see how well Novak has regrouped when he plays Kohli in the first round of Wimbledon He'll need to be ready to go from his very first match. If Nole manages to win it all, he ties Boris at three.

 

[Riotbeard]

No! :laydownlaughing

I dunno how you got that. What I'm saying is, you're already counting up record MS titles for him, H2Hs that he's not ahead in but you're sure he will be. Give it a few months and you'll all be celebrating next years FO again, certain that it's his. That happened this year, but unfortunately he came up short...

I don't think too many novak fans checked the F.O. off the list. We were optimistic, how could you not be. I pick Novak to win every tournament :angel:. I do think Novak fans were more worried about facing Stan than many others, having been burned or nearly so many times in the last couple years. Once again I picked Novak to win. I think at least most novak fans cautioned against discussing the calender slam until after wimbledon...

Just saying.

Ralf's fans just having a bit of fun to with us to ease the pain of their guy's preciptous drop in form.

I was quite optimistic right up until Nole let Andy get his teeth into their semifinal at RG. It's hard to feel too heart broken when Stan was redlining most of the match.

We'll see how well Novak has regrouped when he plays Kohli in the first round of Wimbledon He'll need to be ready to go from his very first match. If Nole manages to win it all, he ties Boris at three.

I was pretty devastated haha but not mad. Novak did all he could. The other guy was just better. Still sucks though.

 

[Great Hands]

Novak has reached the final of every big event in which he has competed (i.e. all excpet Madrid) since the Paris Masters last year. i.e.:

paris - won
wtfs - won
ao - won
iw - won
miami - won
m-c - won
rome - won
fo - final
wd - won
canada - final
cinci - final
uso - won

So if Novak can reach the final of Shanghai, he will have reached at least the final of every Slam and Masters in which he has competed for a whole year! Has anyone done this before? Did Fed do this?