Dueling genders

[Ricardo]

You didn't like the example of the ultra-marathon, until you asked the question about why didn't women participate better in sports across history, which I addressed more globally, and gave good examples of both discrimination and exclusion, and how girls have done better even against boys since Title 9...and now all you've got is stats for distance running. Don't tell me my arguments and examples are crappy until you're willing to address them.

Your arguments and examples are crappy, precisely. In fact not only your example (ultra-marathon) is statistically insignificant, it is plain fake made up - when you CLAIMED women did OVERALL better than men. I have the numbers and facts to back up, do you? (which I have addressed, haven't i? ) of course not, it's simply embarrassing to resort to making it up.

Don't try to change the subject, it doesn't fool anyone. Would you like to admit that you indeed made it up first before continuing?

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BTW, men are not allowed to play in LPGA. Do you think that's discrimination or not? women are allowed to play PGA as you know.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/491217-lana-lawless-why-the-lpga-tour-will-never-let-the-transgender-play

Wake up and smell the coffee, just try and respect the facts - i know that's opposite to what feminists do, at least give it a go. To simplify, women are not as good in sports because they are born that way, it's the genes - don't know any other way one can twist it. Does it change anything by claiming you are just 'as good' when in fact you are not?

 

[Moxie]

Actually, all I ever said about ultra-marathons is that women have won races out-right, not that they owned the sport. Such misstating of a person's position is a cheap tactic and beneath someone of your otherwise 'refinement,' Ricardo.

We're never going to see eye-to-eye on this one, and you have made your position clear. I'm out.

 

[Ricardo]

Actually, all I ever said about ultra-marathons is that women have won races out-right, not that they owned the sport. Such misstating of a person's position is a cheap tactic and beneath someone of your otherwise 'refinement,' Ricardo.

We're never going to see eye-to-eye on this one, and you have made your position clear. I'm out.

No what you said is that, WOMEN HAVE BEATEN THE MEN OVERALL which is in support of your argument that they have BETTER STAMINA. All the posts are there for all to see, but fine if you run away now just after i laid out everything.

Which races have they won out-right? the local events in which the top men didn't compete? after your claim, I've done enough research into the details and they are NOT what you claimed to be. So tell me, when i claimed men have better power, speed and STAMINA - do you still disagree?

if you do, better show us FACTS - don't try and make it up AGAIN because you know it fools NOBODY. I also claim against your claim, that women don't play best of 5 because the quality of their matches will suffer even more due to their stamina not as good as mens.

 

[Moxie]

Actually, all I ever said about ultra-marathons is that women have won races out-right, not that they owned the sport. Such misstating of a person's position is a cheap tactic and beneath someone of your otherwise 'refinement,' Ricardo.

We're never going to see eye-to-eye on this one, and you have made your position clear. I'm out.

Which races have they won out-right? the local events in which the top men didn't compete?

Pamela Reed - Badwater Ultra (2002-03)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pam_Reed

Ann Trason - TAC24 (NYC) (And one other by her, but can't find the link)

http://us.srichinmoyraces.org/archives/1989/24-hour

All against top-male fields. (TBH, Ricardo, there aren't really "ultras" that are *local*, and don't include serious men. These are not races for journey-men or -women.)

And there are others.

 

[Ricardo]

Actually, all I ever said about ultra-marathons is that women have won races out-right, not that they owned the sport. Such misstating of a person's position is a cheap tactic and beneath someone of your otherwise 'refinement,' Ricardo.

We're never going to see eye-to-eye on this one, and you have made your position clear. I'm out.

Which races have they won out-right? the local events in which the top men didn't compete?

Pamela Reed - Badwater Ultra (2002-03)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pam_Reed

Ann Trason - TAC24 (NYC) (And one other by her, but can't find the link)

http://us.srichinmoyraces.org/archives/1989/24-hour

All against top-male fields. (TBH, Ricardo, there aren't really "ultras" that are *local*, and don't include serious men. These are not races for journey-men or -women.)

And there are others.

thanks, i have been waiting for you to talk about Reed, because this is where i can show the past 10 year history of the event and show EXACTLY why you claimed something which isn't TRUE.

First is first, here is the official website showing OFFICIAL results:

http://www.badwater.com/results/

Starting with the course records, GEEZ, there is not a single record by a woman in any respective age group that even comes close to men. (you understand now right? i do some homework so i don't claim silly things)

OK, you want to obviously talk about her 'win' against 'top male runners' - she has two wins in 2002 and 2003, both at which she took about 28 hrs to finish. Every year after, the better males came along and shattered that time to 23 or 24 hours - a whopping difference of around 4 hours. What does that tell us? it tells us you claimed something UNTRUE YET AGAIN, obviously no top males competed during 2002-2003 which she 'won'. AT HER BEST, she doesn't EVER go within 27 hrs to finish and SHE IS CLEARLY one of the very TOP females EVER in that event.

This shows again how i can so easily and completely crash the claim that "women have done overall better than men in ultra marathon" and "ALL AGAINST TOP MALE FIELDS"........ all your words :laydownlaughing Stick to FACTS remember? no woman EVER finished inside 26 hrs, while the top men did comfortably in 23 hrs in that event. Question, how did "WOMEN HAVE DONE OVERALL BETTER THAN MEN"?

What's even more ridiculous, you pick out two wins out of all those events and draw such conclusion. Those wins were not 'top men vs top women', thus it isn't invalid making comparison. Even if i give it to you, 2 out of 100+ various races? forgive me for saying this, it simply doesn't qualify for being 'overall better' - in fact it qualifies for "utter domination by the males" Remember, Fed trails Rafa 2-14 on clay and we say Rafa OWNS him..... how should we describe men vs women in ultra-marathon? like 'ridiculously one-sided owning'?

So out of hundreds of sports, you dig up one of the very insignificant ones, and i still PROVED to you that females were dominated.... and you resort to making it up 'women did overall better than men' and 'against top male fields'; only to get found out to be untrue .

When you tried to insult with things like 'very foolish of...' and 'cheap tactics', now who is foolish and uses cheap tactics? i think you actually insulted yourself.

 

[Moxie]

If you just look at your own list, the man who came 2nd v. Reed in 2003, Karnazes, is the man who won it in 2004. How is that not competing against the top guys?

Again, all I ever said was that it was an event in which women have won, overall, against men. I never said they "own" it, or anything of the sort. You're absolutely shrieking because it IS an event where women have beaten the field, including men. No need to let it bother you that much. But you should realize that women being good athletes doesn't threaten anyone's manhood.

As to the OP, the question is if a woman can be a/the GOAT in tennis. You don't believe so, because you believe the tennis between men and women are at different levels. Some agree with you, others don't. Maybe it's apples and oranges, but while you're entitled to your opinion, others are, as well. It's a discussion point. You needn't take it so personally.

 

[Ricardo]

If you just look at your own list, the man who came 2nd v. Reed in 2003, Karnazes, is the man who won it in 2004. How is that not competing against the top guys?

Again, all I ever said was that it was an event in which women have won, overall, against men. I never said they "own" it, or anything of the sort. You're absolutely shrieking because it IS an event where women have beaten the field, including men. No need to let it bother you that much. But you should realize that women being good athletes doesn't threaten anyone's manhood.

As to the OP, the question is if a woman can be a/the GOAT in tennis. You don't believe so, because you believe the tennis between men and women are at different levels. Some agree with you, others don't. Maybe it's apples and oranges, but while you're entitled to your opinion, others are, as well. It's a discussion point. You needn't take it so personally.

Wrong, he is not even close to being a 'TOP MAN'.... he finished around 28hrs which is a good 4-5 hours behind the top guys who competed in the following years - clearly none of the top men were in 2002-2004.

If you want, i can open a thread in off topic and let's look at the FACTS, and decide OBJECTIVELY if the guy taking nearly 28hrs is TOP MAN OR NOT. You wanna go that route? any time.

So far you are the only person insulting, when losing an argument and proven wrong. "Foolish of me"? yeah right after i set you straight on the facts.

I wouldn't have gone on with this, only if you agreed that men have better stamina, which i claimed. Since you disagreed, and went on and on making up such 'facts', i can only find out and spell out the truth for you. Ultra marathon was your example, not mine, yet even in a sport nobody cares the MEN still dominate. Women have better/or can match STAMINA with men? RIDICULOUS.

Next you said "women have beaten men overall in ultra marathon", not 'in an event'. Then you claimed it was 'against top male field', which i also proved that it's UNTRUE. Top men finish in 23-24hrs while top women do it in 27-28 hrs, CLEARLY top men didn't compete in 2002-2004 correct? (looking at 2005 onwards proves this)
now this is a hard cold fact you just have to admit, if you don't i will make it even more clear..... how is that?

all in all, it's again typical of the argument i see from feminists. It's like, they think making up delusional facts will favor their argument and make it all CREDITABLE - maybe it works for those who drink the same cool-aid, not with me, I refuse to let your agenda get in the way of facts.

BTW, there is 'shrieking' only from you. It's a hysterical action, committed when a girl can't be reasonable, got caught for making up facts thus becomes mentally imbalanced....

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"The reason I mention the ultra-marathon is because it discounts your argument that stamina is a way in which men dominate women in sports."

The above is your word. Now after showing how men DO INDEED ALSO DOMINATE women in ultra marathon, how does your claim hold? if you admit being wrong, i will let it go. The further you wanna dig, the more facts i can show and prove you wrong. This is only one of your outrageous claims, I have a list of it... if you insist, i can go through it one by one. So far i have not seen feminist views stand the test of truth.

 

[Moxie]

It's so sad that women doing well in sports challenges you so much. There is truth in their accomplishments. Your need to negate them seems puny.

 

[Ricardo]

It's so sad that women doing well in sports challenges you so much. There is truth in their accomplishments. Your need to negate them seems puny.

Accomplishments yes, only if it's true. The only thing that challenges me so far, all throughout the thread, is that you made up all those things in favor of your agenda. Call it 'puny', i wonder what you make of someone with all those lies...