Does any player every play at his highest level? Ever?!

[Moxie]

One match that comes to mind, and I'm guessing I might get some disagreement here, is the US Open last year with Novak and Rafa. While Novak fans might be displeased with how he played and lost, I remember thinking at the time, "these are as good as tennis players have ever been." I probably had that thought during that crazy long rally.

That match was messy, and eventually it became a Rafa Steamroll, but at times there we saw two truly relatively well-matched great players in their prime slugging it out.

I think you'll get push-back on that match. Novak came out a bit slow, though once he caught fire, it was quite a match for 2 sets. And yes, there was a time it was even terms and thrilling. Nadal did really steal that 3rd set out from under Djokovic. Had he not, there's every reason to believe it would have been a 5-set nail-biter.

Back to you OP, and someone mentioned Safin and Sampras. Marat considered the 2000 USO final where he beat Pete to be his most perfect match. I think he was at 100% basically that whole match. And by his account, it haunted him. He wanted always to play that well, and he was frustrated when he didn't. (One reason so many racquets lost their poor heads to his often-boiling one.) The lone testament to his maturity was that he was willing to win a slightly less perfect (on his part) match to Federer. And that was such a great match!

 

[brokenshoelace]

Set 3 of Djokovic-Nadal at the US Open in 2011 is probably the finest they've ever played. The level in sets 1 and 2 was very high too, but it was a bit one sided. In set 3, I've never seen Nadal hit the ball so hard, and even that was barely enough to eek it out.

 

[Denis]

Really surprised nobody has brought up Rome 2011. Clearly demonstrates that Djokovic is the superior player to Nadal if they both play at their very best. It was after this match that Nadal started severely doubting himself as he knew he was going to get his ass kicked at RG. Unfortunately, the Fedster helped Rafa there.

[video=youtube] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0dDL0Jzknk[/video]

Lame excuses about Rafa being mentally injured in that match by Rafa fans will probably follow now.

 

[Denis]

Link seems not to be working, second attempt:

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0dDL0Jzknk[/video]

 

[brokenshoelace]

Really surprised nobody has brought up Rome 2011. Clearly demonstrates that Djokovic is the superior player to Nadal if they both play at their very best. It was after this match that Nadal started severely doubting himself as he knew he was going to get his ass kicked at RG. Unfortunately, the Fedster helped Rafa there.

[video=youtube] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0dDL0Jzknk[/video]

Lame excuses about Rafa being mentally injured in that match by Rafa fans will probably follow now.

Lmao @ Nadal playing his best in that much. Yes, those moonball backhands landing inside the service lines clearly show Nadal at his best. If anything, the match above highlights what I said: if one player plays his best, the other won't. Novak was playing so well that Nadal couldn't. The same thing Nadal did to him at the final set if their FO match ladt year and so many other times. Hence the head to head. Another major LOL @ Novak being the superior player on clay. Get over the inferority complex. And lame excuses? Ironic considering you kept bringing up Novak's grandfather throughout the 2012 clay season.

 

[Kieran]

Novak won that Rome match...in Miami. Yes, Nadal was "mentally injured" - by Nole, who paid the rent in full and took up space between Rafa's ears. That's not an excuse - that's the highest compliment to Nole, and how he beat him.

Take the match the following year in Rome as an example of how when Rafa is playing his best on clay, nobody takes a set off him...

 

[Front242]

^ Nadal was still well in that match against Djokovic till the very end of both sets in the Rome 2011 final. One thing that's worth noting is he was 100% not injured here and yet was hitting a ton of short balls right into the service box much the same as he did against Soderling at RG '09. Could it therefore be that when his confidence is rattled by an on fire opponent that this is the reason for the short balls and not movement related at all? Seems that way to me but I'll be told otherwise eventhough his movement was just fine against Hewitt the match before. I was just about done with all that as tbh it bores me but thought I'd point out the obvious with the short balls in both matches against on fire opponents. The opponents hitting deep and working him around the court with sharp angles in both matches appear to be the reason for the short balls to me.

 

[DarthFed]

Novak won that Rome match...in Miami. Yes, Nadal was "mentally injured" - by Nole, who paid the rent in full and took up space between Rafa's ears. That's not an excuse - that's the highest compliment to Nole, and how he beat him.

Take the match the following year in Rome as an example of how when Rafa is playing his best on clay, nobody takes a set off him...

A popular narrative that really gives Nadal no credit. To say he was mentally owned by Nole after losing 2 hard court MS finals is a major reach.

I do think it was this match that really put the fear of God in Rafa and it did affect him against Nole the rest of the year. And as you said it was well deserved.

 

[Front242]

Rafa played his best at Rome 2012? That's news to me. In terms of domination on clay, 2008 is widely regarded as his best year and yet Ernests Gulbis took a set off him in Rome 2008 so he clearly still loses sets playing his best on clay.

 

[Kieran]

@ Darth:

And yet, look at the tiebreak in the final set in Miami. Rafa really looked like he as trying to assert himself in that match - then and there! - and Nole swiped him. I agree that Rome rubber stamped two things: Nole's absolute and justifiable self confidence against Rafa, and also Rafa's descent into fear...

EDIT: it's a good call by Broken to mention the third set, US Open final, 2011: that's the set where Rafa said he began to understand how to change the dynamic with Nole. Took a couple of matches to get there but he showed that great players can apply themselves to alter the effect of a bad match up...

 

[DarthFed]

Even in Nole's pre and post 2011 years Rafa is not a favorite in best of 3's vs. Nole on hard court. I don't think he was that affected by Indian Wells and Miami. Madrid was a bigger loss because it was clay (even though it plays a little like hard) and it was also more decisive than IW and Miami. But I still think it was Rome as that is a regular clay tournament and one of the ones Nadal wins every year.

 

[Kieran]

I think by Madrid that year, Nole was firmly camped in Rafa's skull and he was ordering cheap shirts from Nike (or whoever dressed him then ) for ripping open in his crass jubilation rituals...

EDIT: sorry, was Madrid before it after Rome that year? I think it was before. And Rafa came back from 0-4 in the first and lost it lamely. Nole was the daddy even by Madrid...

 

[Kieran]

Anyway, to stay on topic, they were great matches by Nole and on clay, he gained a huge insight when he drove Rafa to the brink in the semis of Madrid 2009. If anything, that match was even more heroic than the 2011 matches because he was driving into unmarked territory...

 

[Front242]

Unmarked territory came well before Madrid 2009. Before that you had Rome 2006 against Roger, and Hamburg 2007 also against Roger. Djokovic had never beaten him on clay till 2011 so I dunno how you'd call Novak's 2009 Madrid semi unmarked territory. Nadal had lost on clay before Madrid 2009.

Novak never reached MP on clay against Nadal in best of 5. Roger had 2 MPs in Rome 2006 and had beaten him at Hamburg in best of 3 before Djokovic started getting even within sniffing distance.

 

[Kieran]

Well, what I meant was, against Nadal. Nole played fearlessly in that match in Madrid, held match points, and I think it showed him that he has to go way deep to get close to Rafa. It almost paid off in 2009: he hit the jackpot with his endurance matched by his own brilliance in 2011...

 

[Front242]

Yeah, maybe I read it differently like no one had nearly got the better of Nadal on clay before then but you meant Djokovic was getting closer, which he was. But he took another 2 years to actually beat him on clay since that Madrid 2009 semi. Roger's 2 mps didn't win him the match in Rome 2006 either but he was way closer, considering that was best of 5 back then. Till Soderling's defeat of Nadal at RG '09 and a few early matches when Nadal was pretty young, no one had got closer than Federer to beating him. That's all I meant.

 

[El Dude]

Really surprised nobody has brought up Rome 2011. Clearly demonstrates that Djokovic is the superior player to Nadal if they both play at their very best. It was after this match that Nadal started severely doubting himself as he knew he was going to get his ass kicked at RG. Unfortunately, the Fedster helped Rafa there.

....

Lame excuses about Rafa being mentally injured in that match by Rafa fans will probably follow now.

Out of curiosity, is this a deliberate trolling attempt or are you really that much of a Djokovic apologist?

If "Djokovic is the superior player to Nadal if they both play a their very best," can you answer two questions?

1. Why is the career matchup 22-17, Nadal?
2. Why is Djokovic only 3-6 against Nadal in their last 9 matches?

Now Novak has wont the last two matches against Rafa, but they were on hard-court. And please don't tell me its a "matchup problem" as Novak, unlike Roger, has proven he can get around the Rafa Onslaught.

I personally think its clear that Novak has the edge on hard-courts, Rafa on clay, and its a toss-up on grass. Here's the break-down:

hard: Novak, 13-7
clay: Rafa, 13-3
grass: Rafa, 2-1

Or am I just feeding the troll?

 

[DarthFed]

Anyway, to stay on topic, they were great matches by Nole and on clay, he gained a huge insight when he drove Rafa to the brink in the semis of Madrid 2009. If anything, that match was even more heroic than the 2011 matches because he was driving into unmarked territory...

Losing is never more heroic than winning. And that was the year where Rafa gets a pass at RG (2 weeks after Madrid) because he was crippled with the knee injury...remember :idea:

 

[Kieran]

Anyway, to stay on topic, they were great matches by Nole and on clay, he gained a huge insight when he drove Rafa to the brink in the semis of Madrid 2009. If anything, that match was even more heroic than the 2011 matches because he was driving into unmarked territory...

Losing is never more heroic than winning. And that was the year where Rafa gets a pass at RG (2 weeks after Madrid) because he was crippled with the knee injury...remember :idea:

Well, I'm not one to make excuses.

Losing is never more heroic than winning? Tell that to Leonidas and the 300...

 

[Front242]

Kick all the excuse makers down the well. This is Sparta!!!!!!!