Do You Root For Players From Your Own Country?

[Riotbeard]

You've never been loyal! :cover :shy: :dodgy:

What kind of loyalty do you want from a stranger genius? :cover uzzled :nono :angel: :dodgy:

:laydownlaughing :lolz: :clap

They're both Irish Fiero!

 

[brokenshoelace]

No. I don't care much for Canadian players and Lebanon isn't exactly known for its tennis schools.

 

[DonDropShot]

I'm pleasantly surprised most of the posters root for their favs rather than by country. That's one of the reasons I love watching and playing tennis. It's a sport of INDIVIDUALS, not teams. If Sam Querry or John Isner lose, as they invariably do, that has absolutely NO bearing on me, or America, thank God! Ditto for when they win. It will only have an affect on me if they share some of their prize money.

I don't understand why all of the TV commentators always refer to everyone as "the Spaniard", "the American", etc. They're always trying to make it nation versus nation. If I hear Pam Shriver or (insert name HERE) say "there are only two American women in the top thirty" one more time...

Just enjoy the tennis, Pam. And a little rouge never killed anyone.

 

[Kirijax]

I'm pleasantly surprised most of the posters root for their favs rather than by country. That's one of the reasons I love watching and playing tennis. It's a sport of INDIVIDUALS, not teams. If Sam Querry or John Isner lose, as they invariably do, that has absolutely NO bearing on me, or America, thank God! Ditto for when they win. It will only have an affect on me if they share some of their prize money.

I don't understand why all of the TV commentators always refer to everyone as "the Spaniard", "the American", etc. They're always trying to make it nation versus nation. If I hear Pam Shriver or (insert name HERE) say "there are only two American women in the top thirty" one more time...

Just enjoy the tennis, Pam. And a little rouge never killed anyone. ;p

Exactly!

 

[Moxie]

@Bonaca and I have a friendly and running squabble over his penchant for calling Zverev a "fake German," as one example. @Mastoor jumped in yesterday insisting that Zverev, Shapo and Tsitsipas were kind of all really Russians, or mostly. Tented suggested making a thread to discuss it, away from the ATP General news one, and then he suggested to me reviving this one, which I think is fun. SO...Bonaca. You said this on the other thread:

"We can talk about this all day, but if you don’t have something like patriotic feelings, for whatever reason, you will never get my point.
Don’t get me wrong moxie, this is not right or wrong-stuff, just a way to look at things like that. Because of life experience, education and social influence.
Im sure you will at least agree with me, this isn’t stuff we should go deeper in, in this forum. It would be too personal."

Firstly, I do know you do it partly as a joke to rag on players you don't like. But even so, it seems that there is something you don't trust about children of immigrants playing for their new country or under its flag. I'm curious as to why. For the record, I consider myself to be a very patriotic person, but I don't feel it needs to extend to my choices of favorite players in tennis, as it is an individual sport. Nor really in sport so much at all.

That said, some players do have complicated backgrounds, and for the most part, I don't have issues as to the country they chose to play for or identify as their "home" or "homeland." A couple of examples, of variations on that theme: Alex Di Minaur has a Uruguayan father, a Spanish mother, was born in Australia, but lived in Spain from 5-14 years old, then moved back to Australia. He trains in Spain, I think, and played for Spain for a time, but has specifically stated that he feels himself to be Australian and chose to play for Australia. Is he a "fake Australian?"

Another child of the diaspora is Naomi Osaka. Born in Japan to a Japanese mother and Haitian father, but raised in the US. She plays for Japan. Her father has said that it wasn't a financial decision, but it has been a good choice, in that way. Is she a "fake Japanese?"

On the actually "fake" side, I think we all know that Kazakshtan has a DC team only because it's cobbled together with leftovers from the former Soviet Bloc. I looked them up. The current team is made up of 3 Russians, 1 Ukrainian and 1 Uzbek.

Bonaca, I'm interested in your thoughts. Also, anyone else who wants to weigh in on this, or back to the OP...Do you root for players from your own country?

 

[Ricardo]

I consider myself to be a very patriotic person

should not equate 'patriotic' to 'blind' or 'biased'. For what it's worth, players can identify with whatever country they choose, and it's basically none of other people's business. All these repeated criticism of 'fake German' this and that, not surprised as so many behind the screen potatoes just look for whatever to whinge about.

 

[Bonaca]

Hi Moxie,
first of all , for me it is a very interesting thread, did not know this one exsists.
I cannot answer you all of your questions, because my english is by far not good enough.

What means patriotic person to you? Where do you show it and how?

The fake-term is only an item to show who i like or dislike. Nothing to do with nationalism. I have no problems with children of immigrants, god beware. I judge people by their behavior, nothing else, and punish them only if i am threatend. So i teach my children.

tennis is mostly an individual sport, except maybe Olympics or DC, so i understand your point.
For me and i think most of my country fellows it extends very much in sports. Not tennis that much , like for example football, but also.

Why Novak is my favorite player has other reasons, you know he is not from my country.

My wife and i have familiy members who live in the diaspora too (Europe/Australia/ US). Everyone has his own reasons for living out there, but everyone of them i know, will tell you the same about homeland feelings. Think it has the most to do with education. Also the country history is not unimportant and maybe religion.

In Germany for example,the biggest foreign minority is from Turkey, and 99% of the 2nd or 3rd generation will tell you that Turkey is their homeland. Some consider Erdogan as their president, despite living in Germany/were born there and cannot even speak their native language well. Weird to me.
I would like to know what answer Zverev would give?

Like Retardo said: everybody as he wishes. But opinions and thoughts are free.

I meant children of parents with the same roots, not like Osaka or De Minaur. I have no idea how people like Alex think about homeland-feelings and how his parents look at it. Or how people in Australia and US look at their countries with given histories?

I root strongly for players from my own country, more in other sports than tennis.

How about you?

 

[Ricardo]

Hi Moxie,
first of all , for me it is a very interesting thread, did not know this one exsists.
I cannot answer you all of your questions, because my english is by far not good enough.

What means patriotic person to you? Where do you show it and how?

The fake-term is only an item to show who i like or dislike. Nothing to do with nationalism. I have no problems with children of immigrants, god beware. I judge people by their behavior, nothing else, and punish them only if i am threatend. So i teach my children.

tennis is mostly an individual sport, except maybe Olympics or DC, so i understand your point.
For me and i think most of my country fellows it extends very much in sports. Not tennis that much , like for example football, but also.

Why Novak is my favorite player has other reasons, you know he is not from my country.

My wife and i have familiy members who live in the diaspora too (Europe/Australia/ US). Everyone has his own reasons for living out there, but everyone of them i know, will tell you the same about homeland feelings. Think it has the most to do with education. Also the country history is not unimportant and maybe religion.

In Germany for example,the biggest foreign minority is from Turkey, and 99% of the 2nd or 3rd generation will tell you that Turkey is their homeland. Some consider Erdogan as their president, despite living in Germany/were born there and cannot even speak their native language well. Weird to me.
I would like to know what answer Zverev would give?

Like Retardo said: everybody as he wishes. But opinions and thoughts are free.

I meant children of parents with the same roots, not like Osaka or De Minaur. I have no idea how people like Alex think about homeland-feelings and how his parents look at it. Or how people in Australia and US look at their countries with given histories?

I root strongly for players from my own country, more in other sports than tennis.

How about you?

I told your mother to keep an eye on you so you don't mouth off.

 

[Bonaca]

I told your mother to keep an eye on you so you don't mouth off.

Would you like to communicate with me via email Retardo?

 

[brokenshoelace]

Moxie lost me at "Mastoor."

 

[Horsa]

Yes.

 

[Moxie]

Hi Moxie,
first of all , for me it is a very interesting thread, did not know this one exsists.
I cannot answer you all of your questions, because my english is by far not good enough.

What means patriotic person to you? Where do you show it and how?

The fake-term is only an item to show who i like or dislike. Nothing to do with nationalism. I have no problems with children of immigrants, god beware. I judge people by their behavior, nothing else, and punish them only if i am threatend. So i teach my children.

tennis is mostly an individual sport, except maybe Olympics or DC, so i understand your point.
For me and i think most of my country fellows it extends very much in sports. Not tennis that much , like for example football, but also.

Why Novak is my favorite player has other reasons, you know he is not from my country.

My wife and i have familiy members who live in the diaspora too (Europe/Australia/ US). Everyone has his own reasons for living out there, but everyone of them i know, will tell you the same about homeland feelings. Think it has the most to do with education. Also the country history is not unimportant and maybe religion.

In Germany for example,the biggest foreign minority is from Turkey, and 99% of the 2nd or 3rd generation will tell you that Turkey is their homeland. Some consider Erdogan as their president, despite living in Germany/were born there and cannot even speak their native language well. Weird to me.
I would like to know what answer Zverev would give?

Like Retardo said: everybody as he wishes. But opinions and thoughts are free.

I meant children of parents with the same roots, not like Osaka or De Minaur. I have no idea how people like Alex think about homeland-feelings and how his parents look at it. Or how people in Australia and US look at their countries with given histories?

I root strongly for players from my own country, more in other sports than tennis.

How about you?

Here's a quote from Zverev on the question: https://www.tennisworldusa.org/tenn...v-i-don-t-feel-russian-am-completely-german-/
(TennisWorld is kind of a rag and Luigi Gatto is a crap journalist, but the quotes are usually accurate...they just are always cobbled together in no particular order.)

As to patriotism, I never feel that sitting in a stadium and shouting "USA! USA!" makes me patriotic. For me, it's more about civic participation, debate, even protest. I do root for US teams and players in things like DC and Olympics, but there are others I root for, too. Because of family background (yes...it does resonate, even generations later) / because of my academic background, most around here know that I particularly root for Spain, Italy and Latin American countries.

 

[Moxie]

Moxie lost me at "Mastoor."

Shame, because I was looking forward to that blast of hot air on a cold winter's day.

 

[Bonaca]

Here's a quote from Zverev on the question: https://www.tennisworldusa.org/tenn...v-i-don-t-feel-russian-am-completely-german-/
(TennisWorld is kind of a rag and Luigi Gatto is a crap journalist, but the quotes are usually accurate...they just are always cobbled together in no particular order.)

As to patriotism, I never feel that sitting in a stadium and shouting "USA! USA!" makes me patriotic. For me, it's more about civic participation, debate, even protest. I do root for US teams and players in things like DC and Olympics, but there are others I root for, too. Because of family background (yes...it does resonate, even generations later) / because of my academic background, most around here know that I particularly root for Spain, Italy and Latin American countries.

Thx Moxie.
I am surprised about that. Kind of sad if you ask me.

 

[Moxie]

Thx Moxie.
I am surprised about that. Kind of sad if you ask me.

It makes you sad that he feels German, not Russian? Why "sad?"

 

[Bonaca]

It makes you sad that he feels German, not Russian? Why "sad?"

I would be sad if my child has no connection to my roots. But it seems different in this family.

 

[Bonaca]

Here's a quote from Zverev on the question: https://www.tennisworldusa.org/tenn...v-i-don-t-feel-russian-am-completely-german-/
(TennisWorld is kind of a rag and Luigi Gatto is a crap journalist, but the quotes are usually accurate...they just are always cobbled together in no particular order.)

As to patriotism, I never feel that sitting in a stadium and shouting "USA! USA!" makes me patriotic. For me, it's more about civic participation, debate, even protest. I do root for US teams and players in things like DC and Olympics, but there are others I root for, too. Because of family background (yes...it does resonate, even generations later) / because of my academic background, most around here know that I particularly root for Spain, Italy and Latin American countries.

And how do your children think about that? Do they have a connection to your familiy roots (for example visits, language, menatlity)?

 

[Moxie]

I would be sad if my child has no connection to my roots. But it seems different in this family.

I suspect, since it's a one-sentence answer, that the longer version would be more complex. (See below.)

And how do your children think about that? Do they have a connection to your familiy roots (for example visits, language, menatlity)?

Even with only one Italian grandparent, the Italian traditions stay very strong in my family, and my extended family, which is large and close. We pass down the recipes from my great-grandmother, we all make our own bolognese/marinara sauces, which we learned to cook at the elbow of grandma or grandpa, and every family gathering includes at least one big Italian meal. But, because we're also Americans, it ends with pie. I'm the only fluent speaker of Italian in my family, now that my grandfather is gone, (he spoke only dialect,) but various others, including the young generation, have studied it, and speak some. One of my nephews will do his study abroad in Italy. My own family took a trip together to visit where our people came from. And let's face it: nobody hates to go to Italy.

All of this to say that, even though we've got a mixed background, certain traditions from the Old Country linger strongly. But you can't decide for other people how much they embrace their new country, and how much holding onto family traditions means conflicted loyalties. Just because Denis Shapovolov and Alex Zverev might embrace or appreciate their own Russian roots, (or not,) who's to say for them that they don't "feel" Canadian and German, respectively? Where you grew up, who your friends are and the cultural coding that you grow up with matters, too. Maria Sharapova has spent essentially her entire life in the US, and yet her choice "feeling" for herself is that she's Russian. Living in the US is for her tennis. For her, it's went the opposite way.

BTW, I meant to say earlier...your English is very good, and completely up to this conversation. I appreciate your candidness.

 

[Bonaca]

I suspect, since it's a one-sentence answer, that the longer version would be more complex. (See below.)

Even with only one Italian grandparent, the Italian traditions stay very strong in my family, and my extended family, which is large and close. We pass down the recipes from my great-grandmother, we all make our own bolognese/marinara sauces, which we learned to cook at the elbow of grandma or grandpa, and every family gathering includes at least one big Italian meal. But, because we're also Americans, it ends with pie. I'm the only fluent speaker of Italian in my family, now that my grandfather is gone, (he spoke only dialect,) but various others, including the young generation, have studied it, and speak some. One of my nephews will do his study abroad in Italy. My own family took a trip together to visit where our people came from. And let's face it: nobody hates to go to Italy.

All of this to say that, even though we've got a mixed background, certain traditions from the Old Country linger strongly. But you can't decide for other people how much they embrace their new country, and how much holding onto family traditions means conflicted loyalties. Just because Denis Shapovolov and Alex Zverev might embrace or appreciate their own Russian roots, (or not,) who's to say for them that they don't "feel" Canadian and German, respectively? Where you grew up, who your friends are and the cultural coding that you grow up with matters, too. Maria Sharapova has spent essentially her entire life in the US, and yet her choice "feeling" for herself is that she's Russian. Living in the US is for her tennis. For her, it's went the opposite way.

BTW, I meant to say earlier...your English is very good, and completely up to this conversation. I appreciate your candidness.

You are right, a complete answer would be far more complex.

It is no coincidence that you are sympathetic to me from the start. Your words: strong family traditions, large and CLOSE family are so familiar to me.
The dalmatinian coast where I and my whole family came from, is historically strongly influenced by Italy. My wife for example speaks italian very well. She also understands spanish well. Yeah nodody hates visiting Italy.

Absolutely right Moxie, it is an individual and very personal decision. Dont get me wrong, i do not blame anyone for having a different view on this. I just presented my view.

Haha you are very nice, i know my english is not good, if we would talk together you would notice it immediately

 

[the AntiPusher]

Not since Sampras..Can I expand my country to the entire North America so I can root for FAA?