Did Djokovic really play that poorly?

Murat Baslamisli

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rafanoy1992 said:
1972Murat said:
Curious and off topic, but has any of the Big 4 ever came back from being down 2 sets to 0 against each other?

Murat, actually yes. The most famous was the 2011 US Open semifinal between Federer and Djokovic. Remember, Federer had match points on his serve and Djokovic went for it on his forehand return. That's Federer second loss after winning the first two sets in a Major.

How can I forget:s

So, this has been achieved successfully , among the Top 4, in a slam, only once? Of course Roger had to be on the receiving end:nono
 

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1972Murat said:
Curious and off topic, but has any of the Big 4 ever came back from being down 2 sets to 0 against each other?
Novak won against Roger at the US Open 2011 after being two sets down. And even there Roger had two match points in the fifth.

I think when a match between players of a similar level goes to a decider after one was two sets up the player who was leading 2:0 still more often has an advantage in the fifth as he might have saved some energy after falling behind in a third or fourth set, while the one evening the score probably made more of a collective effort in all four sets.
 

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1972Murat said:
rafanoy1992 said:
1972Murat said:
Curious and off topic, but has any of the Big 4 ever came back from being down 2 sets to 0 against each other?

Murat, actually yes. The most famous was the 2011 US Open semifinal between Federer and Djokovic. Remember, Federer had match points on his serve and Djokovic went for it on his forehand return. That's Federer second loss after winning the first two sets in a Major.

How can I forget:s

So, this has been achieved successfully , among the Top 4, in a slam, only once? Of course Roger had to be on the receiving end:nono

Well, Nadal has never lost a Grand Slam match after winning the first two sets. Djokovic has only lost one match after winning the first two sets (2010 RG QF against Melzer). Murray has only lost one match after winning the first two sets. Finally, Federer has lost two matches after winning the first two sets which both happened in 2011.
 

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^ I wouldn't say "only" lost one GS match when up 2 sets. It isn't supposed to happen if you are a good player. Hasn't happened to Nadal, pretty sure it never happened to Pete and I doubt it's happened to most other greats. McEnroe coughed a big one up to Llendl but not sure about guys like Borg, Connors, etc. Roger had the back to back debacles vs. Tsonga and Djokovic. Losing 2 such matches in a career is a ton let alone back to back majors.
 

Murat Baslamisli

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DarthFed said:
^ I wouldn't say "only" lost one GS match when up 2 sets. It isn't supposed to happen if you are a good player. Hasn't happened to Nadal, pretty sure it never happened to Pete and I doubt it's happened to most other greats. McEnroe coughed a big one up to Llendl but not sure about guys like Borg, Connors, etc. Roger had the back to back debacles vs. Tsonga and Djokovic. Losing 2 such matches in a career is a ton let alone back to back majors.

I am not sure I agree. Things happen. Roger did not even get as much as a sniff of Tsonga's serve in the last 3 sets of the Wimby match. Anyone can get hot. I will take that loss anytime over losing to Robredo in the US Open, where the whole match was pathetic. Nadal has no loss form 2 sets down? Good for him. I am sure he would rather have 5 of those in exchange with some of the blow outs he suffered in slams. Roger had two losses in a row like that. I will take those any day over Rafa losing two Wimbledons in a row, early, to nobodies.
 

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Rafa lost against Roger in Miami in 2005, from two sets up. I think it was his first MS final.

The whole point of this two-set lead thingy that Cali is selling, is to propagate the notion that the match was on Nole's racket and he blew it. Cali never gives credit to Rafa for being the better player - even when he gets his 7th win over five on clay against a man who's gotten a total of 4 sets in reply.

I haven't once seen Cali trumpet his usual measure of who's the greater player - the number of winners hit - because this time it was Rafa who hit more, so he'll shy away from that one.

And I don't think he thought Novak was "on the ropes" after losing the first set 6-2 in the US Open final, because, well, it was only Rafa who won that set.

It's just bias, is all it is... :nono
 

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1972Murat said:
DarthFed said:
^ I wouldn't say "only" lost one GS match when up 2 sets. It isn't supposed to happen if you are a good player. Hasn't happened to Nadal, pretty sure it never happened to Pete and I doubt it's happened to most other greats. McEnroe coughed a big one up to Llendl but not sure about guys like Borg, Connors, etc. Roger had the back to back debacles vs. Tsonga and Djokovic. Losing 2 such matches in a career is a ton let alone back to back majors.

I am not sure I agree. Things happen. Roger did not even get as much as a sniff of Tsonga's serve in the last 3 sets of the Wimby match. Anyone can get hot. I will take that loss anytime over losing to Robredo in the US Open, where the whole match was pathetic. Nadal has no loss form 2 sets down? Good for him. I am sure he would rather have 5 of those in exchange with some of the blow outs he suffered in slams. Roger had two losses in a row like that. I will take those any day over Rafa losing two Wimbledons in a row, early, to nobodies.

Well when you are as great as Roger was it is tough to win 3 straight sets period especially when he has the momentum of winning 2 sets. Tsonga is Tsonga, there is a reason his serve was untouchable the last few sets, and he also doesn't have the type of game that should break Roger's serve at will the last few sets. Djokovic at USO is another story but that featured both a blown 2 set lead and the mother of all chokes at the end of the 5th set. IMO those are more embarrassing losses than just getting badly outplayed from the start and losing in straights. Losing from 2 sets up is a mental collapse of some sort, mostly it is a major mental collapse.

Of course Rafa losing to Bobo the clown and Marcy Darcy's husband the past 2 years at Wimbledon was the ultimate humiliation. He should be thankful the grass plays more to his liking later on in the tournament when he is fortunate enough to not be devoured by cupcakes in the 1st week.
 

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tented said:
Kieran said:
It's just bias, is all it is... :nono

Then why respond?

Because there maybe people reading who think he's making sense.

Plus, if we didn't respond to bias, the forum would close down within an hour... :laydownlaughing
 

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DarthFed said:
Of course Rafa losing to Bobo the clown and Marcy Darcy's husband the past 2 years at Wimbledon was the ultimate humiliation.

I dunno: the 7-time champ going out against Stakhovsky last year wasn't any better. These things happen...
 

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Kieran said:
DarthFed said:
Of course Rafa losing to Bobo the clown and Marcy Darcy's husband the past 2 years at Wimbledon was the ultimate humiliation.

I dunno: the 7-time champ going out against Stakhovsky last year wasn't any better. These things happen...

The 32 year old 7-time champ who doesn't come close to resembling the player he used to be.
 

Murat Baslamisli

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Kieran said:
DarthFed said:
Of course Rafa losing to Bobo the clown and Marcy Darcy's husband the past 2 years at Wimbledon was the ultimate humiliation.

I dunno: the 7-time champ going out against Stakhovsky last year wasn't any better. These things happen...

Exactly, and it is probably more humiliating than losing to Nole from two sets up... That's my position anyways.
 

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DarthFed said:
He should be thankful the grass plays more to his liking later on in the tournament when he is fortunate enough to not be devoured by cupcakes in the 1st week.

Yes. "Fortunate."
 

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On second thought, I like this logic. Here, I'll use it:

Roger Federer is fortunate the clay court season is only 2 months long unlike and hard courts are now dominating the tour unlike the old days, where he's fortunate enough not get humiliated by Nadal and rack up some slam titles.
 

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Broken_Shoelace said:
On second thought, I like this logic. Here, I'll use it:

Roger Federer is fortunate the clay court season is only 2 months long unlike and hard courts are now dominating the tour unlike the old days, where he's fortunate enough not get humiliated by Nadal and rack up some slam titles.
Doesn't work BS. In the olden days there was carpet. Roger would kill there...;)
 

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^ And often 3 slams on grass. I think Roger would have managed.
 

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DarthFed said:
^ And often 3 slams on grass. I think Roger would have managed.

Of course he would have. He wouldn't have managed if there were more slams on clay though, which makes him luck by your logic. I mean since Nadal is lucky that the laws of physics mean grass wears off after excessive friction.
 

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Wears off a hell of a lot more since they changed the surface. For all the whining he and his dear uncle do about court speed, the change in grass has helped him immensely. It hasn't helped Roger at all. I doubt he'd "only" have 7 if it suited his game like the old grass does.
 

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DarthFed said:
Wears off a hell of a lot more since they changed the surface. For all the whining he and his dear uncle do about court speed, the change in grass has helped him immensely. It hasn't helped Roger at all. I doubt he'd "only" have 7 if it suited his game like the old grass does.

To be honest, the only result that MIGHT have gone differently for Roger on grass had it played like the old days was Wimbledon 2008. Doubt he was going to win Wimbledon on any surface with his crappy 2010 level, and I doubt faster grass would have helped him return Tsonga's serve when he already wasn't getting a sniff on it in 2011. And let's agree that if you lose to Stakhovsky, it's not the surface's fault :)

Also, Nadal and Toni tend to complain about surfaces, not surface speed.