Danish Angel - Holger Rune Talk

El Dude

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Good post, rafanoy. Holger might need a year to acclimate to being a "name." He's entered that phase of a year or two where it is often decided whether a player becomes elite or not, great or less than. But he's got time to figure it out - this may be a consolidation year.

You mentioned Sinner. He actually back-sled a bit last year. He went from 121 in 2019 to 30 to 10, then fell back slightly (or consolidated) to 12 last year. But 2021 was a better year, with more titles and deeper runs. Now he seems like he's taking that next step. I suspect 2023 will be for Holger what 2022 was for Sinner, and we'll see another push up into the true elite, but not until 2024.

Felix is a bit trickier...his rise has been slower, with more "plateauing," although some of that was the unusual nature of 2020. But he went from 108 in 2017 to 21 for two years to 11 in 2021 to 6 last year, now it seems uncertain where he'll settle. Certainly top 10ish, but can he take that next step up into the top 5 or will he settle in as a lower half top 10 player like Rublev and (I think soon) Ruud?

And of course Alcaraz...it is just a matter of how great he'll become. His rise has been meteoric, but even he might take another two or three years to fully flesh out his game.

In other words, we're seeing the guys born in 1998 and later rise into the elite, and they're still shuffling around to see who everyone "is." We know who the Next Genners are: Medvedev and Zverev (if health) are the big dogs, and bonafide top 5 elite guys (if not quite greats), with Tsitsipas a half step behind (and looking like something of an underachiever, as a few years ago he looked like he might be the best of the three but has kind of plateaued for four years now). Then there's the second tier of Ruud, Rublev and Berrettini for a bit, with a closely grouped third tier of Hurkacz, Khachanov, Fritz, and then Tiafoe looking more like a top 20 guy. But i don't expect a lot to change with these guys - they're all 25-27, and even if they have more big titles and Slams ahead, we're probably not going to see any of them become a perennial #1 or all-time great, or even really more than what they've been so far.

But we still don't know who Rune is or can become, how great Alcaraz will be, if Felix has that next gear, or where Sinner's current surge will take him. What does seem clear is that at least some of these guys will surpass the best of Next Gen. Alcaraz might already be there, and I suspect Sinner will be at least as good as the "Big Three" of Next Gen and possibly better. But Felix? Rune? Who knows?
 

Jelenafan

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Good post, rafanoy. Holger might need a year to acclimate to being a "name." He's entered that phase of a year or two where it is often decided whether a player becomes elite or not, great or less than. But he's got time to figure it out - this may be a consolidation year.

You mentioned Sinner. He actually back-sled a bit last year. He went from 121 in 2019 to 30 to 10, then fell back slightly (or consolidated) to 12 last year. But 2021 was a better year, with more titles and deeper runs. Now he seems like he's taking that next step. I suspect 2023 will be for Holger what 2022 was for Sinner, and we'll see another push up into the true elite, but not until 2024.

Felix is a bit trickier...his rise has been slower, with more "plateauing," although some of that was the unusual nature of 2020. But he went from 108 in 2017 to 21 for two years to 11 in 2021 to 6 last year, now it seems uncertain where he'll settle. Certainly top 10ish, but can he take that next step up into the top 5 or will he settle in as a lower half top 10 player like Rublev and (I think soon) Ruud?

And of course Alcaraz...it is just a matter of how great he'll become. His rise has been meteoric, but even he might take another two or three years to fully flesh out his game.

In other words, we're seeing the guys born in 1998 and later rise into the elite, and they're still shuffling around to see who everyone "is." We know who the Next Genners are: Medvedev and Zverev (if health) are the big dogs, and bonafide top 5 elite guys (if not quite greats), with Tsitsipas a half step behind (and looking like something of an underachiever, as a few years ago he looked like he might be the best of the three but has kind of plateaued for four years now). Then there's the second tier of Ruud, Rublev and Berrettini for a bit, with a closely grouped third tier of Hurkacz, Khachanov, Fritz, and then Tiafoe looking more like a top 20 guy. But i don't expect a lot to change with these guys - they're all 25-27, and even if they have more big titles and Slams ahead, we're probably not going to see any of them become a perennial #1 or all-time great, or even really more than what they've been so far.

But we still don't know who Rune is or can become, how great Alcaraz will be, if Felix has that next gear, or where Sinner's current surge will take him. What does seem clear is that at least some of these guys will surpass the best of Next Gen. Alcaraz might already be there, and I suspect Sinner will be at least as good as the "Big Three" of Next Gen and possibly better. But Felix? Rune? Who knows?
Yes at his age (19) Rune is still young enough that it’s a learning curve, and not necessarily a bad thing to learn something from these recent losses. The IW loss to Wawrinka is certainly nothing horrific as we know Stan the Man is a champion and a wounded aging one still can rise to the ocassion (see Andy Murray) and losing to fellow top 10 Fritz in Fritz’s favorite surface * Hardcourts* in Miami is again no conclusive evidence little Holger is a flash in the pan.

This coming clay season should be interesting, he’s seeded top 8 for these upcoming tourneys at worst. To put this in perspective, 12 months ago Holger had to go through qualifying just to enter the main draw of both Indian Wells and Monte Carlo Masters and didn’t make it out of the Qualifying for the Italian Open Masters , much less didn’t even play the Madrid Masters. So this is quite a heady turn around and as some have pointed out, he hasn’t even played a full top tier ATP tournament schedule for a year. I still think clay is his best surface so I’m hopefully optimistic that more positive than negative will emerge by Roland Garos.

Again I love his attitude and even a clarification of what was misconstrued his considering himself a new Big 3 hit the right balance for me. He even expressed what he admired about both Alcaraz & Sinner.


Excerpt:
“I’m not arrogant, I’m just passionate about what I do. I want to win, but I also want to put on a show on the court. I think it’s very good that there’s a variety of characters on the circuit, otherwise it would all be very boring," Rune told La Gazzetta dello Sport.
 
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MargaretMcAleer

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Rafanoy,

Good points in regarding Rune, though he has hired Patrick Mouratoglou as his coach ( former coach of Simona Halep, who was suspended taking illegal meds, she is currently fighting those charges, before that Serena Williams coach) do you think he is the right coach for Rune? Interested in your thoughts....thanks, from what I have read Patrick has known Rune since he was 13, Patrick is a experienced coach and players eg Tsitsipas, often train at his academy in France, though when he took on to coach Serena and Simona that were both GS champions.
 
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Moxie

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I see you dog-whistling at me, @Jelenafan. Either you, or the UT College of Liberal Arts, which is hounding me for money. :lulz1:

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Jelenafan

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Time to rally little Holger fans, let us hope the Danish Angel can recuperate from the doldrums of the Berretini walkover to wager a successful battle versus a worthy opponent, that grim & resourceful Russian, Daniil Medvedev.

Of course the whispers and attacks against the pride of the whole of Scandanavia ( with the sole exception of the nefarious ones with North Sea oil ) only increase with each Viking conquest he adds.

If he triumphs tommorow he can reach his 2nd Masters semifinals .

So onward Holger, hook ‘em Horns, raise the battle ax !!
 

Fiero425

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The Danish Angel has set his sights on the principality of Monaco....

View attachment 8015

But he only means to burn it down in a "figurative" sense....

I don't necessarily think I have a type, but Nordics hang in my head! "Perfection personified" was endowed upon Borg, Edberg, & now Rune! :rose: :)
 
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Jelenafan

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Little Holger fans, as thrilled as we are with the Danish Angel’s incredible come from behind victory in the MC semifinals , it saddens us to see the diminishing sportsmanship in the ATP.

Could there be a frostier handshake in all of tennis than the perfunctory one Jannick Sinner gave our Holger at the end of the thriller of a match.?

Seeing is believing:



For a second i thought i was watching “Iceman” from Topgun.

Or perhaps the iceberg in “Titanic”

It made the Zverev/Medvedev quarterfinals exchange at net look like a lovefest in comparison.

We know Mr. Sinner comes the Alps region of Italy but perhaps someone should remind him that tennis is not downhill skiing.

Please excuse my momentary hyperbole. Little Holger would not want us to indulge in such petty sniping.

In contrast,
Holger was nothing but complimentary toward his Italian rival, heaping praise on Sinner in the post- match interview, even saying he welcomed the energy of the partisan Sinner crowd, but as his fans we are getting used to Little Holger having to take the high road.

On to Victory Holger!
 
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Jelenafan

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Alas the conquest of Monaco fell short so like any good Viking warrior..

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But again, Little Holger is burning only in a figurative sense, needs to play the Munich Cup next week.
 

Jelenafan

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Holger fans, are we ready for battle? The city of Rome stands to be pillaged and sacked by the Warrior from the North.

No less a battle scarred veteran than Mac sees the valor in this Danish Angel.

1D4AD549-AAE2-4F7D-A1D3-82E9290E3232.jpeg
 
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Moxie

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Holger fans, are we ready for battle? The city of Rome stands to be pillaged and sacked by the Warrior from the North.

No less a battle scarred veteran than Mac sees the valor in this Danish Angel.

View attachment 8128
I'm not sure how many friends you will win by invoking the sack of the Roman Empire. Especially in Rome. ;)