CINCINNATTI MASTERS AUG. 11th to 18th

calitennis127

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
4,947
Reactions
459
Points
83
Moxie629 said:
Dimitrov came out too slowly in the first, but he came alive in the 2nd. He did press, to his credit. He hasn't raised himself to the level of spoiler yet, but he could be getting there. Champion? I'm reserving judgement.


He has a long way to go before you can even contemplate him being a "champion". There is no way he will deal with the Big 4 in the next four years with his forehand being a neutered/neutral shot.

You don't win Grand Slams or MS events by hitting 6 straight backhand slices and having your shoulders hunched as you scramble at the back of the court.
 

brokenshoelace

Grand Slam Champion
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
9,380
Reactions
1,334
Points
113
calitennis127 said:
No Top 10 player in 2006 or 2007 would be on his back foot like that, unable to control a point his forehand.

Think James Blake or Davydenko, among others.

In fairness, Dimitrov is no top 10 player. The current top 10 is:

1 Novak Djokovic
2 Andy Murray
3 Rafael Nadal
4 David Ferrer
5 Roger Federer
6 Tomáš Berdych
7 Juan Martín Del Potro
8 Jo-Wilfried Tsonga
9 Stanislas Wawrinka
10 Milos Raonic

All of these guys can rip the hell out of the ball with their forehands (though Raonic has much more severe problems from the baseline, obviously).
 

calitennis127

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
4,947
Reactions
459
Points
83
Well, I probably should have extended out beyond the Top 10.

I also think that Berdych, Del Potro, Tsonga, and Wawrinka don't just take points over the way you saw players a few years ago doing it.
 

Moxie

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
43,764
Reactions
14,929
Points
113
calitennis127 said:
Well, I probably should have extended out beyond the Top 10.

I also think that Berdych, Del Potro, Tsonga, and Wawrinka don't just take points over the way you saw players a few years ago doing it.

I'm not a fan of Wawrinka, and I think he's overrated. As to the rest, I would say that Berdych, Del Potro and Tsonga are very aggressive players. I would have said they base their game on it.
 

lindseywagners

Futures Player
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Messages
135
Reactions
0
Points
0
Broken_Shoelace said:
I think Nadal has a few very tiny weaknesses that don't often get mentioned. To clarify on this, I'm not saying these are his only weaknesses, or that his weaknesses are only small, but we all know what his major weaknesses are and so does the ATP tour. Instead, I'm talking about the little stuff that often goes unnoticed.

For instance, it's generally accepted that slicing against Nadal is a bad idea, and with good reason. No player makes a mockery of the slice like Nadal does. However, he only does so when a slice is either A) to the middle of the court or B) to his backhand side, where he uses his incredible footwork to run around it and pretty put the ball wherever he wants. What he doesn't do as well however, is handle sharp, low cross court slices to his forehand side, especially on faster courts. He struggles to redirect it up the line (he'll often either over-hit it, or dump it at the net), and he if he goes cross court, he can only "lift" it back up and roll it into play. Grigor's game is reliant on the slice so I understand why he kept playing them so much (but only to an extent, since you're still supposed to change your game based on your opponent), however, he should have gone with them to Nadal's forehand, for the most part.

The other weakness -- and one that Dimitrov did exploit fairly well, to his credit -- is Nadal's difficulty in handling slower high bouncing kick serves (mainly 2nd serves) to his forehand side. Because he doesn't step in and take it on the rise, he often hits the forehand at well above shoulder height (ironic, I know), and shanks it.

One thing I've noticed about him as well throughout the years, is that when he does opt for a backhand slices, he will often miss the subsequent backhand if he reverts back to the two hander. It's really curious, and I don't it's the change of grip that breaks his rhythm or what, but it's amazing how often it happens (though there weren't notable instances of this in this match).

Anyway, good win for Nadal, as he continues to look quite sharp.

Quality analysis.
 

bajana

Pro Tour Player
Joined
Aug 12, 2013
Messages
292
Reactions
7
Points
18
GameSetAndMath said:
The last time Fed rallied for a win against Haas was 2009 French Open and
he won that tournament..............

Didn't Fed also come back from losing the first set to win the match the last time they played at Halle?
 

Moxie

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
43,764
Reactions
14,929
Points
113
calitennis127 said:
Moxie629 said:
Dimitrov came out too slowly in the first, but he came alive in the 2nd. He did press, to his credit. He hasn't raised himself to the level of spoiler yet, but he could be getting there. Champion? I'm reserving judgement.


He has a long way to go before you can even contemplate him being a "champion". There is no way he will deal with the Big 4 in the next four years with his forehand being a neutered/neutral shot.

You don't win Grand Slams or MS events by hitting 6 straight backhand slices and having your shoulders hunched as you scramble at the back of the court.

Agreed. But do you see him as a good spoiler in the near-future?
 

Luxilon Borg

Major Winner
Joined
Jul 22, 2013
Messages
1,665
Reactions
0
Points
0
I'm bracing for a SERIOUS beat down tomorrow. I just hope Roger is not embarrassed too badly again like Indian Wells. It is going to be a heartless assault. Sigh.
 

Luxilon Borg

Major Winner
Joined
Jul 22, 2013
Messages
1,665
Reactions
0
Points
0
calitennis127 said:
Moxie629 said:
Dimitrov came out too slowly in the first, but he came alive in the 2nd. He did press, to his credit. He hasn't raised himself to the level of spoiler yet, but he could be getting there. Champion? I'm reserving judgement.

If Gregorova is a stock, I would by a ton of shares. This guy is going top 5. He has IT.

Some things that need to be tweaked:

Court positioning.

Shortening of backhand preparation.

Shot selection.

Transition game.

He is 80% there. A star.:clap

He has a long way to go before you can even contemplate him being a "champion". There is no way he will deal with the Big 4 in the next four years with his forehand being a neutered/neutral shot.

You don't win Grand Slams or MS events by hitting 6 straight backhand slices and having your shoulders hunched as you scramble at the back of the court.
 

Luxilon Borg

Major Winner
Joined
Jul 22, 2013
Messages
1,665
Reactions
0
Points
0
calitennis127 said:
Moxie629 said:
Dimitrov came out too slowly in the first, but he came alive in the 2nd. He did press, to his credit. He hasn't raised himself to the level of spoiler yet, but he could be getting there. Champion? I'm reserving judgement.


He has a long way to go before you can even contemplate him being a "champion". There is no way he will deal with the Big 4 in the next four years with his forehand being a neutered/neutral shot.

You don't win Grand Slams or MS events by hitting 6 straight backhand slices and having your shoulders hunched as you scramble at the back of the court.

Curious..what is wrong with the forehand? It is FAR from a "neutered/neutral" shot.

Have you seen him play in person?

The slice? This was a predetermined strategy against Rafa...

He does need to work on court positioning.

This guy is going top five, so I'd buy the stock if I were you.
 

crystalfire

Major Winner
Joined
Apr 20, 2013
Messages
1,261
Reactions
22
Points
38
Luxilon Borg said:
I'm bracing for a SERIOUS beat down tomorrow. I just hope Roger is not embarrassed too badly again like Indian Wells. It is going to be a heartless assault. Sigh.

yep same. im gonna try not to watch it. if i do ill probably end up cursing at his stupid decisions
 

Luxilon Borg

Major Winner
Joined
Jul 22, 2013
Messages
1,665
Reactions
0
Points
0
crystalfire said:
Luxilon Borg said:
I'm bracing for a SERIOUS beat down tomorrow. I just hope Roger is not embarrassed too badly again like Indian Wells. It is going to be a heartless assault. Sigh.

yep same. im gonna try not to watch it. if i do ill probably end up cursing at his stupid decisions

I'm predicting a train wreck for Rog but I am hoping a miracle occurs. It is not so much Rogers decline, but I believe Rafa is the best player in the world now. His forehand is the single most vicious stroke in tennis, not counting serves. It is just a stunning shot. His physicality and belief are frightening.

Let's see...Monte Carlo, Rome, Barcelona, France, Indian Wells, Montreal....
 

crystalfire

Major Winner
Joined
Apr 20, 2013
Messages
1,261
Reactions
22
Points
38
Luxilon Borg said:
crystalfire said:
Luxilon Borg said:
I'm bracing for a SERIOUS beat down tomorrow. I just hope Roger is not embarrassed too badly again like Indian Wells. It is going to be a heartless assault. Sigh.

yep same. im gonna try not to watch it. if i do ill probably end up cursing at his stupid decisions

I'm predicting a train wreck for Rog but I am hoping a miracle occurs. It is not so much Rogers decline, but I believe Rafa is the best player in the world now. His forehand is the single most vicious stroke in tennis, not counting serves. It is just a stunning shot. His physicality and belief are frightening.

Let's see...Monte Carlo, Rome, Barcelona, France, Indian Wells, Montreal....

exactly. only djokovic comes close. this was why i was reallllly hopping haas beat him today. guess im gonna have to watch that H2H get more lopsided.
 

GameSetAndMath

The GOAT
Joined
Jul 9, 2013
Messages
21,141
Reactions
3,398
Points
113
Broken_Shoelace said:
calitennis127 said:
No Top 10 player in 2006 or 2007 would be on his back foot like that, unable to control a point his forehand.

Think James Blake or Davydenko, among others.

In fairness, Dimitrov is no top 10 player. The current top 10 is:

1 Novak Djokovic
2 Andy Murray
3 Rafael Nadal
4 David Ferrer
5 Roger Federer
6 Tomáš Berdych
7 Juan Martín Del Potro
8 Jo-Wilfried Tsonga
9 Stanislas Wawrinka
10 Milos Raonic

All of these guys can rip the hell out of the ball with their forehands (though Raonic has much more severe problems from the baseline, obviously).

It is ok, if you don't like Gasquet, but he is still in top ten.
 

lindseywagners

Futures Player
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Messages
135
Reactions
0
Points
0
bajana said:
GameSetAndMath said:
The last time Fed rallied for a win against Haas was 2009 French Open and
he won that tournament..............

Didn't Fed also come back from losing the first set to win the match the last time they played at Halle?

Yes.
 

GameSetAndMath

The GOAT
Joined
Jul 9, 2013
Messages
21,141
Reactions
3,398
Points
113
lindseywagners said:
bajana said:
GameSetAndMath said:
The last time Fed rallied for a win against Haas was 2009 French Open and
he won that tournament..............

Didn't Fed also come back from losing the first set to win the match the last time they played at Halle?

Yes.

There is a crucial difference. He lost the first set in Halle. However, he was never
down in second or third sets.

In today's match (as well as in FO) he was in danger of losing the match. Today,
not only he lost the first set, he was down a break in the second set.
 

ClayDeath

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Messages
4,800
Reactions
241
Points
63
Location
Gulf Coast
it may end up being a close contest.

its cinci and its the hard courts. anything is possible.


I never thought dynamitrov would take a set off the clay warrior but it happened.
 

tented

Administrator
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
21,703
Reactions
10,580
Points
113
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
tented said:
rafanoy1992 said:
Tomorrow night will be Roger Federer vs. Rafael Nadal for the XXXIst time!

Neither one of them played particularly well today, so this could go either way.

Never mind. I had only watched part of Roger's match when I posted this, but have since watched the rest. It reminded me of when he was playing so poorly in Miami a few years ago that he smashed his racquet. Rafa will win.
 

Kieran

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
17,078
Reactions
7,369
Points
113
I think this is a much bigger match for Roger. If he loses, he has nothing going to NY. I think Rafa will be happy with his prep so far. If Rafa brings the pain, Roger will feel sore, but it'll depend on Rafa's intensity in this match.

Personally, I hope he's keeping something in the tank for NY, so a loss here wouldn't disappoint me. But I have a suspicion he's chasing #1 ranking, in which case we maybe in for a gruelling few days of tennis...
 

DarthFed

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
17,724
Reactions
3,477
Points
113
This, like most of their matches, should be a joke. It shows how badly Roger has fallen as this used to be probably his 2nd or 3rd best tournament. Meanwhile it is one of Rafa's worst. He will win today but that will be the end of the road for him assuming Murray beats Berd.