Can You Say 2011??

[Federberg]

It's a flawed logic circle really... 2006 wasn't so good because the competition was weaker (I thought we had done away with that nonsense by the way).. but then 2011 is so much better because one of the guys he was beating regularly was the one with the dominance in 2006!? Duh!!

 

[Ricardo]

Rafa on clay was a beast in 2006, that's true. I often said it, but Roger's supreme chance to get on top of Rafa was in 2005, at RG, before Nadal became ironclad in his clay self-belief.

Who else was a beast in 2006? Who else could stop Roger, off clay? What Rafa was to Nole in 2011, who was that man to Roger, in 2006? Could take a while, this one.

Moxie is right: Roger was a force still in 2011, and the proof of this is that he began his march back to the top in that season, and he was playing great enough tennis to stop Nole in Paris, and almost in New York. So Nole had Fedal to contend with - Rafa in his pure prime, and a potent Roger. That's enough field for anyone with only one slam to their name to have to face...

Federer had a better year against Nadal in 07 than 06 but not as good a season overall. Sorry to keep beating the same drum but it's about taking out the field and winning tournaments. Hardly Federer's fault if Nadal doesn't make it through a supposedly shockingly weak field back in the day.

As for Djokovic's 2011 season - in respect of winning majors alone I happen to agree it was more impressive than Federer's 06 "beyond the stats".

But if you take the year overall with everything included, it's pretty much a wash, even "beyond the stats". Djoker had lost more matches and they weren't always against Fedal - Janko and Ferrer beat him at the YEC.

next thing we expect, Kieran will glorify Novak's wins (as if he hasn't done enough already) and excuse his losses.

 

[Kieran]

Rafa on clay was a beast in 2006, that's true. I often said it, but Roger's supreme chance to get on top of Rafa was in 2005, at RG, before Nadal became ironclad in his clay self-belief.

Who else was a beast in 2006? Who else could stop Roger, off clay? What Rafa was to Nole in 2011, who was that man to Roger, in 2006? Could take a while, this one.

Moxie is right: Roger was a force still in 2011, and the proof of this is that he began his march back to the top in that season, and he was playing great enough tennis to stop Nole in Paris, and almost in New York. So Nole had Fedal to contend with - Rafa in his pure prime, and a potent Roger. That's enough field for anyone with only one slam to their name to have to face...

Federer had a better year against Nadal in 07 than 06 but not as good a season overall. Sorry to keep beating the same drum but it's about taking out the field and winning tournaments. Hardly Federer's fault if Nadal doesn't make it through a supposedly shockingly weak field back in the day.

As for Djokovic's 2011 season - in respect of winning majors alone I happen to agree it was more impressive than Federer's 06 "beyond the stats".

But if you take the year overall with everything included, it's pretty much a wash, even "beyond the stats". Djoker had lost more matches and they weren't always against Fedal - Janko and Ferrer beat him at the YEC.

Good post, brother. I think that by the YEC Nole was spent. It was a tough season and his run through five MS titles and the way he tore Rafa a new one on clay and at the majors was something of a higher level than any season Rafa had, too. In fact, it's probably become a monkey on Nole's back because it's often held against him that his levels have dipped significantly since then, especially at the slams. Little wonder, but from his perspective, it's a shame...

 

[DarthFed]

Yeahj, Nole had Murray too that year, playing good tennis. You're convincing me more and more.

It's a pity that some Federer fans are taking this personally. Some are engaging with the topic, but others are engaging with their own pants and claiming there's agendas. This is paranoid stuff. I'm not even a Nole fan, but I own up to it - he broke my heart in 2011 playing incredible tennis. I had hoped that after 2010 that Rafa might get at least one cheap season with the Gonzo's and Baggy's and Fozzy Bear's of this world, but then Djokzilla came ranging over the mountaintops, the baddest beast in history...

He got his easy year in 2010 or have you forgotten? He didn't go through anyone good at the last 3 finals. You're no Nole fan but you love the guy compared to a certain someone else, someone who is lucky with weak competition when he did great but was suddenly a potent force 4 years past his prime when he did nothing. Not that this clouds your judgment at all

 

[Kieran]

Yeahj, Nole had Murray too that year, playing good tennis. You're convincing me more and more.

It's a pity that some Federer fans are taking this personally. Some are engaging with the topic, but others are engaging with their own pants and claiming there's agendas. This is paranoid stuff. I'm not even a Nole fan, but I own up to it - he broke my heart in 2011 playing incredible tennis. I had hoped that after 2010 that Rafa might get at least one cheap season with the Gonzo's and Baggy's and Fozzy Bear's of this world, but then Djokzilla came ranging over the mountaintops, the baddest beast in history...

He got his easy year in 2010 or have you forgotten? He didn't go through anyone good at the last 3 finals. You're no Nole fan but you love the guy compared to a certain someone else, someone who is lucky with weak competition when he did great but was suddenly a potent force 4 years past his prime when he did nothing. Not that this clouds your judgment at all

Well, he got only one year, buddy, not three of them, I would have liked a couple more...

 

[Ricardo]

exactly what i forecast, 'spent' meaning what? he still racked up way more losses than Fed 06, and Janko/Ferrer were not all that much better than the Gonzo, Blake and Roddick's no? but thanks for showing i was right.

 

[Federberg]

Rafa on clay was a beast in 2006, that's true. I often said it, but Roger's supreme chance to get on top of Rafa was in 2005, at RG, before Nadal became ironclad in his clay self-belief.

Who else was a beast in 2006? Who else could stop Roger, off clay? What Rafa was to Nole in 2011, who was that man to Roger, in 2006? Could take a while, this one.

Moxie is right: Roger was a force still in 2011, and the proof of this is that he began his march back to the top in that season, and he was playing great enough tennis to stop Nole in Paris, and almost in New York. So Nole had Fedal to contend with - Rafa in his pure prime, and a potent Roger. That's enough field for anyone with only one slam to their name to have to face...

Federer had a better year against Nadal in 07 than 06 but not as good a season overall. Sorry to keep beating the same drum but it's about taking out the field and winning tournaments. Hardly Federer's fault if Nadal doesn't make it through a supposedly shockingly weak field back in the day.

As for Djokovic's 2011 season - in respect of winning majors alone I happen to agree it was more impressive than Federer's 06 "beyond the stats".

But if you take the year overall with everything included, it's pretty much a wash, even "beyond the stats". Djoker had lost more matches and they weren't always against Fedal - Janko and Ferrer beat him at the YEC.

I think Novak's first half of the year is the most impressive I can recall. And his US Open final victory still gives me chills. The quality of hitting was extraordinary. But to my mind... his inability to sustain his level, and the ease with which Roger maintained his in 2006, actually confirm, for me, not only what a supreme year 2006 was, but what a ridiculous 3 year spell of dominance Federer had.

I think we all have a tendency in this day and age to always think the history being made now is the greatest history ever. I have issues with this. Same problem I have with people gushing about Messi now, and relegating Maradona and even Garincha..

 

[Ricardo]

Rafa on clay was a beast in 2006, that's true. I often said it, but Roger's supreme chance to get on top of Rafa was in 2005, at RG, before Nadal became ironclad in his clay self-belief.

Who else was a beast in 2006? Who else could stop Roger, off clay? What Rafa was to Nole in 2011, who was that man to Roger, in 2006? Could take a while, this one.

Moxie is right: Roger was a force still in 2011, and the proof of this is that he began his march back to the top in that season, and he was playing great enough tennis to stop Nole in Paris, and almost in New York. So Nole had Fedal to contend with - Rafa in his pure prime, and a potent Roger. That's enough field for anyone with only one slam to their name to have to face...

Federer had a better year against Nadal in 07 than 06 but not as good a season overall. Sorry to keep beating the same drum but it's about taking out the field and winning tournaments. Hardly Federer's fault if Nadal doesn't make it through a supposedly shockingly weak field back in the day.

As for Djokovic's 2011 season - in respect of winning majors alone I happen to agree it was more impressive than Federer's 06 "beyond the stats".

But if you take the year overall with everything included, it's pretty much a wash, even "beyond the stats". Djoker had lost more matches and they weren't always against Fedal - Janko and Ferrer beat him at the YEC.

I think Novak's first half of the year is the most impressive I can recall. And his US Open final victory still gives me chills. The quality of hitting was extraordinary. But to my mind... his inability to sustain his level, and the ease with which Roger maintained his in 2006, actually confirm, for me, not only what a supreme year 2006 was, but what a ridiculous 3 year spell of dominance Federer had.

I think we all have a tendency in this day and age to always think the history being made now is the greatest history ever. I have issues with this. Same problem I have with people gushing about Messi now, and relegating Maradona and even Garincha..

while i don't disagree that the USO11 final was high quality, it certainly wasn't the highest. Surely both guys put up incredible defense yet i think Nadal was incapable of the best offense to allow Novak keep getting to so many shots. As we've seen, if Rafa was able to play the level of offense that Fed can, he would've been able to penetrate him much more and not having to out-grind and eek out just a set (3rd set), before he gassed out himself.

Put simply, guys capable of the best offense would be able to outplay Novak no matter how well he defended, even on clay.

 

[Federberg]

^to be clear I didn't say the highest quality, but the level and the drama was very high. I think we seldom see matches where the two players are both sustaining a very high level at the same time. Clearly Rafa could have played differently tactically. But Novak was occupying a large amount of real estate in his head. It's very much to Rafa's credit that he was able to come roaring back..

 

[Ricardo]

^to be clear I didn't say the highest quality, but the level and the drama was very high. I think we seldom see matches where the two players are both sustaining a very high level at the same time. Clearly Rafa could have played differently tactically. But Novak was occupying a large amount of real estate in his head. It's very much to Rafa's credit that he was able to come roaring back..

certainly showed Nadal's quality right there, where the dynamic of the match is concerned he should've lost in 3 but was intense enough to wrestle back a set.

 

[DarthFed]

Yeahj, Nole had Murray too that year, playing good tennis. You're convincing me more and more.

It's a pity that some Federer fans are taking this personally. Some are engaging with the topic, but others are engaging with their own pants and claiming there's agendas. This is paranoid stuff. I'm not even a Nole fan, but I own up to it - he broke my heart in 2011 playing incredible tennis. I had hoped that after 2010 that Rafa might get at least one cheap season with the Gonzo's and Baggy's and Fozzy Bear's of this world, but then Djokzilla came ranging over the mountaintops, the baddest beast in history...

He got his easy year in 2010 or have you forgotten? He didn't go through anyone good at the last 3 finals. You're no Nole fan but you love the guy compared to a certain someone else, someone who is lucky with weak competition when he did great but was suddenly a potent force 4 years past his prime when he did nothing. Not that this clouds your judgment at all

Well, he got only one year, buddy, not three of them, I would have liked a couple more...

And what three years were that easy comparatively?

 

[Kieran]

Yeahj, Nole had Murray too that year, playing good tennis. You're convincing me more and more.

It's a pity that some Federer fans are taking this personally. Some are engaging with the topic, but others are engaging with their own pants and claiming there's agendas. This is paranoid stuff. I'm not even a Nole fan, but I own up to it - he broke my heart in 2011 playing incredible tennis. I had hoped that after 2010 that Rafa might get at least one cheap season with the Gonzo's and Baggy's and Fozzy Bear's of this world, but then Djokzilla came ranging over the mountaintops, the baddest beast in history...

He got his easy year in 2010 or have you forgotten? He didn't go through anyone good at the last 3 finals. You're no Nole fan but you love the guy compared to a certain someone else, someone who is lucky with weak competition when he did great but was suddenly a potent force 4 years past his prime when he did nothing. Not that this clouds your judgment at all

Well, he got only one year, buddy, not three of them, I would have liked a couple more...

And what three years were that easy comparatively?

Comparative to 2011? All of them, brother, all of them. :nono

But having chased Roger at the start of his career, I would have liked a few seasons with the Gonzos and Baggy's and Roddicks, as I said above. It wasn't to be, and maybe Rafa is the greater player for that. He bounced back last season and he's having a great career, winning his slams going through his rivals, on all surfaces...

 

[Ricardo]

Yeahj, Nole had Murray too that year, playing good tennis. You're convincing me more and more.

It's a pity that some Federer fans are taking this personally. Some are engaging with the topic, but others are engaging with their own pants and claiming there's agendas. This is paranoid stuff. I'm not even a Nole fan, but I own up to it - he broke my heart in 2011 playing incredible tennis. I had hoped that after 2010 that Rafa might get at least one cheap season with the Gonzo's and Baggy's and Fozzy Bear's of this world, but then Djokzilla came ranging over the mountaintops, the baddest beast in history...

He got his easy year in 2010 or have you forgotten? He didn't go through anyone good at the last 3 finals. You're no Nole fan but you love the guy compared to a certain someone else, someone who is lucky with weak competition when he did great but was suddenly a potent force 4 years past his prime when he did nothing. Not that this clouds your judgment at all

Well, he got only one year, buddy, not three of them, I would have liked a couple more...

And what three years were that easy comparatively?

Comparative to 2011? All of them, brother, all of them. :nono

But having chased Roger at the start of his career, I would have liked a few seasons with the Gonzos and Baggy's and Roddicks, as I said above. It wasn't to be, and maybe Rafa is the greater player for that. He bounced back last season and he's having a great career, winning his slams going through his rivals, on all surfaces...

would you just open a thread regarding 'weak competition'? no need to take low jabs here and there, just own up to it.

 

[Kieran]

:laydownlaughing

It's like fishing in a trout farm. :lolz:

 

[Ricardo]

:laydownlaughing

It's like fishing in a trout farm. :lolz:

you are a trout, caught, grilled and served on a platter...... good example bud :laydownlaughing

 

[Ricardo]

so after all this, that's what it's all about eh? (weak competition), told you it could be resolved a little better and sooner....

 

[Front242]

Yeahj, Nole had Murray too that year, playing good tennis. You're convincing me more and more.

It's a pity that some Federer fans are taking this personally. Some are engaging with the topic, but others are engaging with their own pants and claiming there's agendas. This is paranoid stuff. I'm not even a Nole fan, but I own up to it - he broke my heart in 2011 playing incredible tennis. I had hoped that after 2010 that Rafa might get at least one cheap season with the Gonzo's and Baggy's and Fozzy Bear's of this world, but then Djokzilla came ranging over the mountaintops, the baddest beast in history...

He got his easy year in 2010 or have you forgotten? He didn't go through anyone good at the last 3 finals. You're no Nole fan but you love the guy compared to a certain someone else, someone who is lucky with weak competition when he did great but was suddenly a potent force 4 years past his prime when he did nothing. Not that this clouds your judgment at all

Well, he got only one year, buddy, not three of them, I would have liked a couple more...

And what three years were that easy comparatively?

Comparative to 2011? All of them, brother, all of them. :nono

But having chased Roger at the start of his career, I would have liked a few seasons with the Gonzos and Baggy's and Roddicks, as I said above. It wasn't to be, and maybe Rafa is the greater player for that. He bounced back last season and he's having a great career, winning his slams going through his rivals, on all surfaces...

At the height of their powers Roddick, Gonzo and even Blake were making a monkey out of Nadal so are you sure about that?

 

[Kieran]

I woulda liked them at the height of his powers, buddy...

 

[Front242]

I woulda liked them at the height of his powers, buddy...

Doesn't work that way I'm afraid Roger beat them at the height of their powers btw and they beat Nadal so what does that say? Imo it says the competition wasn't weak at all actually.

 

[Kieran]

I woulda liked them at the height of his powers, buddy...

Doesn't work that way I'm afraid Roger beat them at the height of their powers btw and they beat Nadal so what does that say? Imo it says the competition wasn't weak at all actually.

Rafa beat them at the height of his powers too, buddy. Unfortunately, they weren't all he faced...