Can we all agree that ESPN should replace Chris Fowler with Jason Goodall?

[GameSetAndMath]

Cliff also says factually incorrect things often. Once he was making statements about net clearance levels of Rafa which were totally off the mark.

 

[Moxie]

They all make mistakes. Not sure how you know the net clearance better than Fowler, but McEnroe said the other day that Nadal has no titles on indoor hc. "Zero!" he said. Which is wrong. That's one reason they have producers, and sometimes if they get things wrong, I firmly believe it was fed to them that way. Or hopefully the producer is there to feed them a correction. Do remember how many hours of air time they have to fill.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

They all make mistakes. Not sure how you know the net clearance better than Fowler, but McEnroe said the other day that Nadal has no titles on indoor hc. "Zero!" he said. Which is wrong. That's one reason they have producers, and sometimes if they get things wrong, I firmly believe it was fed to them that way. Or hopefully the producer is there to feed them a correction. Do remember how many hours of air time they have to fill.

It is easy to forget some kind of stat about a player. The stuff I was talking about is not a stat. He was describing with an outrageous number (which is beyond common sense) the net clearance of Rafa. I immediately posted here about that. I think later @brokenshoelace called them up and they admitted the error or something like that.

It is one thing to make a mistake and it is totally another thing to come up with numbers which don't even pass the smell test.

 

[Moxie]

It is easy to forget some kind of stat about a player. The stuff I was talking about is not a stat. He was describing with an outrageous number (which is beyond common sense) the net clearance of Rafa. I immediately posted here about that. I think later @brokenshoelace called them up and they admitted the error or something like that.

It is one thing to make a mistake and it is totally another thing to come up with numbers which don't even pass the smell test.

I get it, but what I'm saying is I think they're fed numbers by producers. Do you really expect most of them to have the numbers and stats and history off the top of their heads? If Chris Fowler was talking about net clearance, he wasn't eye-balling it. He was reading something off a prompter. To me, I wouldn't blame him for that. Brad Gilbert is one who actually tends to remember everything. And while no one laments the loss of Justin Gimelstob, he also had a great memory for what actually happened. The ex-players have a great feel for what goes on with players, and the ex-/current coaches have great insights, as well. The journalists/color-commentators are just there to ask questions of those that played the game or coached it. I don't have a huge problem with that. I see it as a structure that works for ESPN or CBS. They've tried to fob off some of their star commentators on tennis, and some of them don't work at all. To me, Chris Fowler is fine. Don't love him, don't hate him. I wouldn't get him fired.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

I get it, but what I'm saying is I think they're fed numbers by producers. Do you really expect most of them to have the numbers and stats and history off the top of their heads? If Chris Fowler was talking about net clearance, he wasn't eye-balling it. He was reading something off a prompter. To me, I wouldn't blame him for that. Brad Gilbert is one who actually tends to remember everything. And while no one laments the loss of Justin Gimelstob, he also had a great memory for what actually happened. The ex-players have a great feel for what goes on with players, and the ex-/current coaches have great insights, as well. The journalists/color-commentators are just there to ask questions of those that played the game or coached it. I don't have a huge problem with that. I see it as a structure that works for ESPN or CBS. They've tried to fob off some of their star commentators on tennis, and some of them don't work at all. To me, Chris Fowler is fine. Don't love him, don't hate him. I wouldn't get him fired.

It was not Fowler who made the error on net clearance. It was Cliff.
He, being a former player, should think before uttering nonsensical numbers even if wrong info was fed by prompter.

 

[Moxie]

It was not Fowler who made the error on net clearance. It was Cliff.
He, being a former player, should think before uttering nonsensical numbers even if wrong info was fed by prompter.

OK, fine. But I don't understand what we're really arguing here. As I said, they have to natter on for hours at a time. Is this about who we don't like, or who we think is incompetent? IMO, they all make mistakes, as they talk for hours at a time. Chris Fowler is vanilla ice cream to me. Background noise. I don't care. If he bothers other people, OK, but I'm not sure he's even interesting enough for a thread.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Chris Fowler is an annoyance when you are seriously trying to watch the game.

 

[calitennis127]

I'm not saying they'd lose fans...I'm just explaining what I see is their reasoning. He just doesn't bother me. Drysdall is still around, and I love him, and Goodall is back in the mix. It's just that tennis tournaments are long days, and they need x-number of people. Chis McKendry isn't especially illuminating in any way, either, but she's fine in her role.

McKendry isn't calling matches, and she also isn't the same kind of smart aleck sycophant that Fowler is. She is just a pleasant sports journalist asking questions and showing highlights and smiling. It's hard to take issue with her approach.

That said, I would vastly prefer hearing McKendry to Fowler over the course of a match. At this point I find Fowler to be beyond irritating.

 

[calitennis127]

Chris Fowler is an annoyance when you are seriously trying to watch the game.

Lol.....totally agree with this.

 

[calitennis127]

Carillo is still with Tennis Channel. And contrary to Cali's point in the OP about Fowler being a sycophant for the Big 3, when Carillo did split with ESPN some years back, it was because she felt that they championed the top players too much. Never understand why she gets so much grief around here. Unlike Fowler, she was a tennis player. She's won 2 Peabody awards (a US journalism award,) and she was inducted into the Sports Broadcasting Hall of Fame in 2018, amongst other awards.

Way to go Moxie with flexing those feminist muscles....gotta stand up for who you think is the underappreciated woman. I am not surprised that you are so insistent on defending Carillo given that her analysis suffers from many of the same shortcomings as yours. Fortunately I have not heard her call any matches in recent years so I don't have any specific quotes to offer at the moment as examples for how annoying she is, but I will say that one irritating thing she often did was start whispering for added effect when she got excited. That was, as they say, "cringeworthy."

If there is one female analyst over the years who I thought was informative, it was Mary Jo Fernandez. But I haven't seen her as much of late.

 

[calitennis127]

They all make mistakes. Not sure how you know the net clearance better than Fowler, but McEnroe said the other day that Nadal has no titles on indoor hc. "Zero!" he said. Which is wrong.

But not far from the truth either. Zero at Bercy, zero at World Tour Finals, zero at Shanghai (Masters Cup and WTF). Only 1 at old Madrid.

 

[Moxie]

But not far from the truth either. Zero at Bercy, zero at World Tour Finals, zero at Shanghai (Masters Cup and WTF). Only 1 at old Madrid.

Agreed. I'm just pointing out that it was a factual error that wasn't made by Fowler. I think I'm generally easier on the commentators than lots of folks around here. My two beefs would be that on US TV, commentators generally talk too much, and I really can't stand it when they seem to have gotten bored with a match and talk about all kinds of other crap.

 

[Moxie]

Way to go Moxie with flexing those feminist muscles....gotta stand up for who you think is the underappreciated woman. I am not surprised that you are so insistent on defending Carillo given that her analysis suffers from many of the same shortcomings as yours. Fortunately I have not heard her call any matches in recent years so I don't have any specific quotes to offer at the moment as examples for how annoying she is, but I will say that one irritating thing she often did was start whispering for added effect when she got excited. That was, as they say, "cringeworthy."

If there is one female analyst over the years who I thought was informative, it was Mary Jo Fernandez. But I haven't seen her as much of late.

You just can't resist a few digs, can you, even though this is about the only non-trolled thread, atm. I know Carillo is not well-liked around here, but I happen to think she's smart and funny. Anyway, I heard Mary Jo calling matches during the Open. She tends to call women's ones.

 

[monfed]

This shouldn't be a question but anyway the answer is yes.

 

[calitennis127]

You just can't resist a few digs, can you, even though this is about the only non-trolled thread, atm. I know Carillo is not well-liked around here, but I happen to think she's smart and funny. Anyway, I heard Mary Jo calling matches during the Open. She tends to call women's ones.

Lol....I have not heard Carillo in a while (thankfully), but I may grudgingly acknowledge that I prefer her to Fowler. Either way, Mary Jo is a pleasant voice to listen to and she does offer some true tennis insights beyond Fowler's. If I recall, Mary Jo has been close friends with the Federer family over the years, and it shows. According to this article, she is even considered part of Federer's "team," but I don't see her in any of the photos:

https://tennistonic.com/tennis-news...derers-family-team-and-children-in-wimbledon/

Btw, another tennis voice I am not particularly fond of - as I regard him as the male version of Carillo, minus the slight charisma of Carillo - is Paul Annacone. After hearing him on Tennis Channel a few times, I think that one of Federer's biggest mistakes was hiring him as a coach. I do agree with DarthFed that Federer underachieved a bit between 2010 and 2017 (especially against Nadal), and I think Annacone was a major reason for that. Ljubicic is a much better coach for him to have. Much tougher mindset.

 

[tented]

Chris Fowler is an annoyance when you are seriously trying to watch the game.

And often John McEnroe ... and Patrick McEnroe ... and Pam Shriver ... and Steve Weissman ... and ...