Best for Rafa to lose early in Miami as well

[Tennis Miller]

It's never "right" to lose early.

Never.

Depends on what you mean by "right".

If you define it, as I do, as "the best for him in the long run", then I would disagree with you.
If you mean it's never right for the player to tank or hope to lose, then I agree with you.

I think the best example of what I'm saying can be seen by looking at all of Sampras' early losses to a lot of nobodies at Roland Garros. Others would be slogging it out on the clay for two weeks, while Pete would often head to the green pastures of England after a week 1 loss at RG, rested and ready to kick everyone's butt on the grass. The early loss at RG would have no effect on his confidence, which he got the moment he set foot on his beloved grass. (If you recall, the one time he fought his way to the semis at the French, he not only got rolled there, but he also ended up losing at Wimby for the only time during an 8-year span. Maybe just a coincidence, but surely an interesting one.)

I think Rafa responds to clay the same way Pete did to grass, and the sooner Rafa gets off the hards and back onto his favorite surface, the better for him, IMHO.

Good discussion.

Cheers
TM

 

[Riotbeard]

It's never "right" to lose early.

Never.

Depends on what you mean by "right".

If you define it, as I do, as "the best for him in the long run", then I would disagree with you.
If you mean it's never right for the player to tank or hope to lose, then I agree with you.

I think the best example of what I'm saying can be seen by looking at all of Sampras' early losses to a lot of nobodies at Roland Garros. Others would be slogging it out on the clay for two weeks, while Pete would often head to the green pastures of England after a week 1 loss at RG, rested and ready to kick everyone's butt on the grass. The early loss at RG would have no effect on his confidence, which he got the moment he set foot on his beloved grass. (If you recall, the one time he fought his way to the semis at the French, he not only got rolled there, but he also ended up losing at Wimby for the only time during an 8-year span. Maybe just a coincidence, but surely an interesting one.)

I think Rafa responds to clay the same way Pete did to grass, and the sooner Rafa gets off the hards and back onto his favorite surface, the better for him, IMHO.

Good discussion.

Cheers
TM

Spurious comparison. Rafa is not pete on clay in his relationship to hard courts. He has 3 slams, an Olympic gold, and a bunch of masters. An early round loss at Miami would mean something different from pete at RG, where he got to the semi's once. This is not to say that losing in miami would spell bad for clay season.

The point is, rafa is playing really mediocre tennis (by his standards) on all surfaces. Had he faced better players at rio, I am hardly convinced he would have won that title. He is either injured (which he denies, and honestly there isn't any evidence of serious injury, maybe a niggling back issue) or more likely, he is in a slump (which is human and happening to Novak also) in which case having a good run at Miami could have great effect.

The other point is, when Rafa won Rio, nobody suggested he lose early in Indian Wells, which points to a different type of attitude. It smacks of making an excuse and not giving credit it to another player taking advantage of Rafa on a rough day. It also makes it seem like Rafa is incapable of being mentally off or not playing well, unless he is injured. Rafa fans (and not all of them by any means) are the only group of fans who really do this regularly, so I think rubs people the wrong way. Plenty of Novak, Andy, and Roger fans blame mentality and general slump for losses. Why would Nadal be above these very human reactions. As Kieran put it earlier, he looks mentally out of it a lot of the time recently.

 

[huntingyou]

who are those fans you speak off?

and nobody cares about Rio, he can win that event with a hand tied to his back. It's an easy field, it's clay, South America....you do the math.

 

[Riotbeard]

who are those fans you speak off?

and nobody cares about Rio, he can win that event with a hand tied to his back. It's an easy field, it's clay, South America....you do the math.

Rio matters, when you are trying to gauge continuities and trends in Rafa's level of play this season.

 

[Tennis Miller]

It's never "right" to lose early.

Never.

Depends on what you mean by "right".

If you define it, as I do, as "the best for him in the long run", then I would disagree with you.
If you mean it's never right for the player to tank or hope to lose, then I agree with you.

I think the best example of what I'm saying can be seen by looking at all of Sampras' early losses to a lot of nobodies at Roland Garros. Others would be slogging it out on the clay for two weeks, while Pete would often head to the green pastures of England after a week 1 loss at RG, rested and ready to kick everyone's butt on the grass. The early loss at RG would have no effect on his confidence, which he got the moment he set foot on his beloved grass. (If you recall, the one time he fought his way to the semis at the French, he not only got rolled there, but he also ended up losing at Wimby for the only time during an 8-year span. Maybe just a coincidence, but surely an interesting one.)

I think Rafa responds to clay the same way Pete did to grass, and the sooner Rafa gets off the hards and back onto his favorite surface, the better for him, IMHO.

Good discussion.

Cheers
TM

Spurious comparison. Rafa is not pete on clay in his relationship to hard courts. He has 3 slams, an Olympic gold, and a bunch of masters. An early round loss at Miami would mean something different from pete at RG, where he got to the semi's once. This is not to say that losing in miami would spell bad for clay season.

The point is, rafa is playing really mediocre tennis (by his standards) on all surfaces. Had he faced better players at rio, I am hardly convinced he would have won that title. He is either injured (which he denies, and honestly there isn't any evidence of serious injury, maybe a niggling back issue) or more likely, he is in a slump (which is human and happening to Novak also) in which case having a good run at Miami could have great effect.

The other point is, when Rafa won Rio, nobody suggested he lose early in Indian Wells, which points to a different type of attitude. It smacks of making an excuse and not giving credit it to another player taking advantage of Rafa on a rough day. It also makes it seem like Rafa is incapable of being mentally off or not playing well, unless he is injured. Rafa fans (and not all of them by any means) are the only group of fans who really do this regularly, so I think rubs people the wrong way. Plenty of Novak, Andy, and Roger fans blame mentality and general slump for losses. Why would Nadal be above these very human reactions. As Kieran put it earlier, he looks mentally out of it a lot of the time recently.

I think he looks a bit out of it, both mentally and physically. That's what I'm saying. Reading into it
that I'm only saying he loses when he's injured is just missing my point completely.

My comparison between Pete and Rafa coming alive on their respective favorite surfaces, regardless of what happened the week before on a less favored surface, is spot on, in my view.
It almost seems so obvious I'm surprised anyone would not see it.

Thus my conclusion that he could skip Miami completely or lose early, and it would be better for him in the long run in my view, than just saying what you're saying, which is basically, he should suck it up and play through it.

Cheers
TM

 

[Riotbeard]

It's never "right" to lose early.

Never.

Depends on what you mean by "right".

If you define it, as I do, as "the best for him in the long run", then I would disagree with you.
If you mean it's never right for the player to tank or hope to lose, then I agree with you.

I think the best example of what I'm saying can be seen by looking at all of Sampras' early losses to a lot of nobodies at Roland Garros. Others would be slogging it out on the clay for two weeks, while Pete would often head to the green pastures of England after a week 1 loss at RG, rested and ready to kick everyone's butt on the grass. The early loss at RG would have no effect on his confidence, which he got the moment he set foot on his beloved grass. (If you recall, the one time he fought his way to the semis at the French, he not only got rolled there, but he also ended up losing at Wimby for the only time during an 8-year span. Maybe just a coincidence, but surely an interesting one.)

I think Rafa responds to clay the same way Pete did to grass, and the sooner Rafa gets off the hards and back onto his favorite surface, the better for him, IMHO.

Good discussion.

Cheers
TM

Spurious comparison. Rafa is not pete on clay in his relationship to hard courts. He has 3 slams, an Olympic gold, and a bunch of masters. An early round loss at Miami would mean something different from pete at RG, where he got to the semi's once. This is not to say that losing in miami would spell bad for clay season.

The point is, rafa is playing really mediocre tennis (by his standards) on all surfaces. Had he faced better players at rio, I am hardly convinced he would have won that title. He is either injured (which he denies, and honestly there isn't any evidence of serious injury, maybe a niggling back issue) or more likely, he is in a slump (which is human and happening to Novak also) in which case having a good run at Miami could have great effect.

The other point is, when Rafa won Rio, nobody suggested he lose early in Indian Wells, which points to a different type of attitude. It smacks of making an excuse and not giving credit it to another player taking advantage of Rafa on a rough day. It also makes it seem like Rafa is incapable of being mentally off or not playing well, unless he is injured. Rafa fans (and not all of them by any means) are the only group of fans who really do this regularly, so I think rubs people the wrong way. Plenty of Novak, Andy, and Roger fans blame mentality and general slump for losses. Why would Nadal be above these very human reactions. As Kieran put it earlier, he looks mentally out of it a lot of the time recently.

I think he looks a bit out of it, both mentally and physically. That's what I'm saying. Reading into it
that I'm only saying he loses when he's injured is just missing my point completely.

My comparison between Pete and Rafa coming alive on their respective favorite surfaces, regardless of what happened the week before on a less favored surface, is spot on, in my view.
It almost seems so obvious I'm surprised anyone would not see it.

Thus my conclusion that he could skip Miami completely or lose early, and it would be better for him in the long run in my view, than just saying what you're saying, which is basically, he should suck it up and play through it.

Cheers
TM

Normally and in general, I agree, Rafa likes clay (although he likes hard courts too of late), but he did not play well in Rio. He played at a similar level to Indian Wells. His current problems could very well be something different, and thus playing Miami could very well be helpful. I honestly think losing to another mid-tier, would not be helpful at all for Rafa.

The other stuff about intent and rationalization of losses, if you don't see it, you don't. Maybe it's not there, but that is how I interpret it.

 

[JesuslookslikeBorg]

if rafa/wafa carries on his smelly toilet form in Miami and then on clay he will lose some more.

 

[Tennis Miller]

if rafa/wafa carries on his smelly toilet form in Miami and then on clay he will lose some more.

You're making me feel like I've never been born

Cheers
TM

 

[JesuslookslikeBorg]

if rafa/wafa carries on his smelly toilet form in Miami and then on clay he will lose some more.

You're making me feel like I've never been born

Cheers
TM

lol..you spotted the "she said she said" quote in my sig.

 

[Tennis Miller]

if rafa/wafa carries on his smelly toilet form in Miami and then on clay he will lose some more.

You're making me feel like I've never been born

Cheers
TM

lol..you spotted the "she said she said" quote in my sig.

I remember exactly where I was when I first heard this album when it came out. Those first few beats of Taxman ...One, twooo, threee, foouur.... one, twoo...Let me tell you how it will be....

Cheers

TM

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Whether or not it is best for him, I think he will lose early there too.

 

[Denis]

I too think it is best for Rafa to lose early in Miami as well, although I doubt it is best for Rafa himself.

 

[Rose]

First the knees, now the back, sometimes I honestly wish he had never wanted to become an "all court player"!

 

[the AntiPusher]

Best for Rafa to skip Miami and chill out a bit.......maybe just hang out in SoBe and sip some mojito.

Playing on HC before the clay season makes no sense. The funny thing is I was very happy Rafa lost.

On another note, I'm going to the Sony Ericson this year........

I am just the opposite. I would rather Rafa play Miami, get his rythmn back and use that confidence to propel him through the clay season. Rafa lacks confidence, his body is ok and he could use the 1000 points. Also, I plan to attend and I have Never seen Rafa play live.

 

[isabelle]

Best for Rafa to skip Miami and chill out a bit.......maybe just hang out in SoBe and sip some mojito.

Playing on HC before the clay season makes no sense. The funny thing is I was very happy Rafa lost.

On another note, I'm going to the Sony Ericson this year........

I am just the opposite. I would rather Rafa play Miami, get his rythmn back and use that confidence to propel him through the clay season. Rafa lacks confidence, his body is ok and he could use the 1000 points. Also, I plan to attend and I have Never seen Rafa play live.

If you attend, Nadal'll win Miami just for you !!!

 

[the AntiPusher]

Best for Rafa to skip Miami and chill out a bit.......maybe just hang out in SoBe and sip some mojito.

Playing on HC before the clay season makes no sense. The funny thing is I was very happy Rafa lost.

On another note, I'm going to the Sony Ericson this year........

I am just the opposite. I would rather Rafa play Miami, get his rythmn back and use that confidence to propel him through the clay season. Rafa lacks confidence, his body is ok and he could use the 1000 points. Also, I plan to attend and I have Never seen Rafa play live.

If you attend, Nadal'll win Miami just for you !!!

:clap

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

Last season Rafa proved once again that he is a rhythm guy and when he gets on a roll, there is no stopping him...He played what, 67 finals in a row or something? No sense for him to take it easy now. Just get on a roll again and get your mojo back.

I did however agree with Kieran in the other thread where some of the clay tournaments he is playing are not really necessary any more. That's where he should chill and take it easy. I think 2 tournaments leading up to RG should be enough for him to have his clay legs.

 

[rafanoy1992]

Last season Rafa proved once again that he is a rhythm guy and when he gets on a roll, there is no stopping him...He played what, 67 finals in a row or something? No sense for him to take it easy now. Just get on a roll again and get your mojo back.

I did however agree with Kieran in the other thread where some of the clay tournaments he is playing are not really necessary any more. That's where he should chill and take it easy. I think 2 tournaments leading up to RG should be enough for him to have his clay legs.

I always thought that Nadal should just skip either Barcelona or Madrid. In 2010, he skip Barcelona and guess what he swept the Clay season. I seriously hope he does that again so he could be fresh going into Wimbledon.

 

[Moxie]

Last season Rafa proved once again that he is a rhythm guy and when he gets on a roll, there is no stopping him...He played what, 67 finals in a row or something? No sense for him to take it easy now. Just get on a roll again and get your mojo back.

I did however agree with Kieran in the other thread where some of the clay tournaments he is playing are not really necessary any more. That's where he should chill and take it easy. I think 2 tournaments leading up to RG should be enough for him to have his clay legs.

I always thought that Nadal should just skip either Barcelona or Madrid. In 2010, he skip Barcelona and guess what he swept the Clay season. I seriously hope he does that again so he could be fresh going into Wimbledon.

If Nadal does well in Miami, he should definitely skip one. Although he has more points to defend in Madrid, I'd almost say skip that one. He loves Barcelona. It's the closest to a home tourney that he has, and he's practically a lock there. Plus he doesn't have to play on the "clard." However, this year or next, he's going to have to give it up, until his "sunset" years, I feel. It's too indulgent to play there with 3 x 1000s on clay before RG.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Last season Rafa proved once again that he is a rhythm guy and when he gets on a roll, there is no stopping him...He played what, 67 finals in a row or something? No sense for him to take it easy now. Just get on a roll again and get your mojo back.

I did however agree with Kieran in the other thread where some of the clay tournaments he is playing are not really necessary any more. That's where he should chill and take it easy. I think 2 tournaments leading up to RG should be enough for him to have his clay legs.

I always thought that Nadal should just skip either Barcelona or Madrid. In 2010, he skip Barcelona and guess what he swept the Clay season. I seriously hope he does that again so he could be fresh going into Wimbledon.

If Nadal does well in Miami, he should definitely skip one. Although he has more points to defend in Madrid, I'd almost say skip that one. He loves Barcelona. It's the closest to a home tourney that he has, and he's practically a lock there. Plus he doesn't have to play on the "clard." However, this year or next, he's going to have to give it up, until his "sunset" years, I feel. It's too indulgent to play there with 3 x 1000s on clay before RG.

People keep suggesting that Nadal should skip Barcelona or Madrid etc.

My point is first things first. Let him first make a commitment that he will not play
Clay tournaments before IW and after FO and stick to the commitment; that in itself
will be a major move.

Even last year, he said he was tempted to play in Hamburg and the doctors
advised him against it. This year's Rio was unnecessary, especially as he got
back injury and needed to heal.