Barclays ATP World Tour Finals - Day 2

[herios]

I'd be surprised if he plays past 2014. His pride has limits and he is at, what must be to him, an embarrassing level at this point. I don't ever buy the love of the game argument. Roger probably still believes he can still play and will eventually get back to elite level but eventually all hope will be abandoned.

Yes, he keeps losing to that clown with only 6 slams, that's not only embarrassing but terribly humiliating too.

No need to be arrogant, for example, I was having hard time watching Nole dropping serve as he was just like a newcomer on tour.
He does this way too many times, in big matches, he should not relax after winning a set, he is not playing player ranked 99 in the first round of a slam.

On another note, I have a secure feeling with him when he plays these days Roger, despite his mental lapses. I feel like he has more endurance physically and can recover mentally faster as well, if he has a letdown during the match.
Today was not any different. I am just upset when he makes his life more difficult. Hopefully he recovers and will be fresh Thursday.

 

[DarthFed]

I'd be surprised if he plays past 2014. His pride has limits and he is at, what must be to him, an embarrassing level at this point. I don't ever buy the love of the game argument. Roger probably still believes he can still play and will eventually get back to elite level but eventually all hope will be abandoned.

Roger has said in an interview few months ago that he looks up to Hewitt in
admiration that he (Hewitt) still plays despite his ranking being so low and said that
he too wants to play even if his rankings drop like that of Hewitt.

However, whether he means what he says is another story.

His original target for retirement was 2016 Olympics. My guess is he will
stick to that provided his rankings does not drop below 32 (which gives him
a seeded spot in GSs). If he cannot even be a seeded player in GSs, he
will quit much before not withstanding what he said in that interview.

I hope he changes racquets during off season and hire me as his
coach in 2014; that will be the panacea for all problems.

He should have changed racquets already and now I doubt that he will do that in the offseason. He talked about his plans to play until 2016 when he was top 2-3 in the world and routinely going deep at majors. There is no way he thought 2013 would be so bad...

In another interview recently, Roger told that he knew his 2013 will be Annus Horribilis
(after his sternuous effort to get back to #1 in 2012). Of course, there is no way
of knowing whether he really knew as he is telling in retrospect.

Please tell me you don't believe he actually thinks that. I doubt he'd say at the start of 2013 that he expected to play so poor, that's just talk after the fact...

 

[GameSetAndMath]

I'd be surprised if he plays past 2014. His pride has limits and he is at, what must be to him, an embarrassing level at this point. I don't ever buy the love of the game argument. Roger probably still believes he can still play and will eventually get back to elite level but eventually all hope will be abandoned.

Roger has said in an interview few months ago that he looks up to Hewitt in
admiration that he (Hewitt) still plays despite his ranking being so low and said that
he too wants to play even if his rankings drop like that of Hewitt.

However, whether he means what he says is another story.

His original target for retirement was 2016 Olympics. My guess is he will
stick to that provided his rankings does not drop below 32 (which gives him
a seeded spot in GSs). If he cannot even be a seeded player in GSs, he
will quit much before not withstanding what he said in that interview.

I hope he changes racquets during off season and hire me as his
coach in 2014; that will be the panacea for all problems.

He should have changed racquets already and now I doubt that he will do that in the offseason. He talked about his plans to play until 2016 when he was top 2-3 in the world and routinely going deep at majors. There is no way he thought 2013 would be so bad...

In another interview recently, Roger told that he knew his 2013 will be Annus Horribilis
(after his sternuous effort to get back to #1 in 2012). Of course, there is no way
of knowing whether he really knew as he is telling in retrospect.

Please tell me you don't believe he actually thinks that. I doubt he'd say at the start of 2013 that he expected to play so poor, that's just talk after the fact...

Actually I believe that he expected his 2013 to be worse than his 2012.
I think he could feel being worn out due to the push he did in 2012 to get to #1
and get a olympics medal. But, I don't think he expected it would be THIS BAD.

In another interview at the beginning of the year (before his decline became
obvious) in one interview he told that he thinks he could play well, but he is not
sure whether other players would let him play well. This is very surprising considering
he made the statement sometime in Januay or February (definitely before Indian Wells).
Morevoer, this statement is completely contradictory to the "Match in My Racquet"
statement that he often makes (he did it again just before WTF started).

 

[DarthFed]

Roger has said in an interview few months ago that he looks up to Hewitt in
admiration that he (Hewitt) still plays despite his ranking being so low and said that
he too wants to play even if his rankings drop like that of Hewitt.

However, whether he means what he says is another story.

His original target for retirement was 2016 Olympics. My guess is he will
stick to that provided his rankings does not drop below 32 (which gives him
a seeded spot in GSs). If he cannot even be a seeded player in GSs, he
will quit much before not withstanding what he said in that interview.

I hope he changes racquets during off season and hire me as his
coach in 2014; that will be the panacea for all problems.

He should have changed racquets already and now I doubt that he will do that in the offseason. He talked about his plans to play until 2016 when he was top 2-3 in the world and routinely going deep at majors. There is no way he thought 2013 would be so bad...

In another interview recently, Roger told that he knew his 2013 will be Annus Horribilis
(after his sternuous effort to get back to #1 in 2012). Of course, there is no way
of knowing whether he really knew as he is telling in retrospect.

Please tell me you don't believe he actually thinks that. I doubt he'd say at the start of 2013 that he expected to play so poor, that's just talk after the fact...

Actually I believe that he expected his 2013 to be worse than his 2012.
I think he could feel being worn out due to the push he did in 2012 to get to #1
and get a olympics medal. But, I don't think he expected it would be THIS BAD.

In another interview at the beginning of the year (before his decline became
obvious) in one interview he told that he thinks he could play well, but he is not
sure whether other players would let him play well. This is very surprising considering
he made the statement sometime in Januay or February (definitely before Indian Wells).
Morevoer, this statement is completely contradictory to the "Match in My Racquet"
statement that he often makes (he did it again just before WTF started).

Yeah I could see him believing it would be difficult to have a better year than 2012 but in his mind I'd imagine he suspected it might look like 2011 or the end of 2010, not like how it turned out. But it's all speculation of course.

 

[brokenshoelace]

The one positive I see in Roger's game is the slice has a lot of bite again.

I only caught the bits and pieces, but that was exactly my first thought. Roger doesn't move as well, doesn't defend as well (one of the main problems against the elite is that he no longer possesses the same level of physicality and athleticism, and thus, can't turn defense into attack as frequently as they do. If he's behind in a rally, it's a done deal), and his backhand gets visibly shaky as it's getting pounded. The slice however, is his way out. If he can hit it as good as he did, it allows him to run around the subsequent shot and fire the inside out forehand (a pattern he made a living off of in the past). I saw some vintage moments like that, and to me, that's one of the adjustments he needs to make to his game moving forward. He just doesn't have the same footwork as he used to in order to protect his backhand and run around it often, so he needs the slice to break the rhythm, slow the rally down, and allow him to find his forehand.

 

[brokenshoelace]

On another note, I have a secure feeling with him when he plays these days Roger, despite his mental lapses. I feel like he has more endurance physically and can recover mentally faster as well, if he has a letdown during the match.
Today was not any different. I am just upset when he makes his life more difficult. Hopefully he recovers and will be fresh Thursday.

Yeah, I totally agree with this. Again, I did not see the entire match, but I did watch from the midway point of the second set until the end of the match, and despite Roger taking the tie-break, I never got the feeling that he would actually go on to win. Novak just has too much in the reserve when he needs to, and at this point, has more ways to win the match against Roger. He doesn't need to be extra aggressive, but carefully pound the backhand until he can open up the court and stretch him on the forehand side. More importantly, at this point, Djokovic just hits so much better on the run and while he's defending, that he can withstand Roger's onslaught and turn the rallies around. Of course, he'll have to deal with the small stretches during which Roger becomes unplayable, but those are few and far in between, and usually accompanied by other, more significant stretches, of sloppiness and backhand errors.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Level of his play in Paris was not that far from what he played when he was winning tournaments.

:laydownlaughing:laydownlaughing:laydownlaughing

 

[isabelle]

So Youngderer is not so bad : it's just that he can't play at a hight level during a whole match, perfectly normal at 32, he has no more gas in the tank at the end.
2006 is not 2013 and forever young isn't possible

 

[Front242]

Went to bed right after the match so didn't get the chance to post. Well, apart from set 3 it was a total errorfest. By both guys. Not the clean match I was hoping for. Set 3 actually had some decent fast paced clean rallies and less errors than the preceding sets but Novak really stepped it up there and Roger had no answers. At least Roger played a good TB and there were some good points by both guys in between the buckets of slop.

Turned it off before the stats popped up but they had to be pretty ugly. While I was hopeful Fed would do better I'm glad he at least got it to 3 sets like Paris. He's getting there anyway. It's his best surface sure but he's playing a guy 6 years younger and in his prime so as much as he feels he should still be beating guys like Novak, it could be a lot worse, like losing 2 and 2. I still think Fed will beat Del Potro. Hope he at least qualifies for the semi to boost his confidence for next season.

 

[Front242]

So Youngderer is not so bad : it's just that he can't play at a hight level during a whole match, perfectly normal at 32, he has no more gas in the tank at the end.
2006 is not 2013 and forever young isn't possible

First nice thing you've said about him ever ? Anyway, I agree. When he's good it seems he's back but it ends rather quickly. These days whenever he gets a break he usually gives it right back or else he wins a set and loses his serve to open the next. Depressing for fans as much as him

 

[Front242]

Level of his play in Paris was not that far from what he played when he was winning tournaments.

True but it doesn't count that he was 12 years old in those matches. It's like saying Gasquet can still beat Nadal. He hasn't since he was 13.

 

[tented]

Went to bed right after the match so didn't get the chance to post. Well, apart from set 3 it was a total errorfest. By both guys. Not the clean match I was hoping for. Set 3 actually had some decent fast paced clean rallies and less errors than the preceding sets but Novak really stepped it up there and Roger had no answers. At least Roger played a good TB and there were some good points by both guys in between the buckets of slop.

That about sums it up. That's why I posted the better guy won, the better guy lost, the worse guy won, and the worse guy lost. These two have had some up-and-down matches in the past, but this one was particularly odd. Without doubt, though, Novak deserved -- and got -- the win.

 

[Front242]

One thing I noticed was how often Fed served to Novak's Bh, which to me was very questionable. Why serve so often to the guy's obvious strength? sure, Novak's extremely solid off both wings, but especially his BH. Towards the end of set 3 Roger was still doing it and Novak was routinely pelting BH service winners. Wake up Roger, you have better tactics than that surely. Body serves? Take pace off and serve a big kick serve, but don't hit so much to the guy's best shot so often. It's a recipe for disaster.