Ashley Fisher: We Will Never Know How Good Any Murray Is

[Luxilon Borg]

Tennis Channel's Ashley Fisher made a statement the other night saying "We will never really know how good Andy Murray really is" due to his ATTITUDE.

He noted the other members of the "Big Four" have steely, ultra confident demeanor and just get on with it regardless of what gets thrown their way. Rarely do you see negative body language, foul language, or anything but resolve. Except on the rarest of occasions.

I agree with Fisher 100%. Murray has a totally different mental approach then GOAT, Rafa, and Djoker. And he pays the price.

Watching Murray for many years, he exhibits many of the characteristics of spoiled juniors. Whining to the "camp", non stop commentary, "woah is me" facial expressions, hanging head, and slumped shoulders.

Murray matches are often long drawn out affairs with tons of soliloquies, self imposed drama,

It also does not help that he approaches the net about 5 times a year.

 

[El Dude]

I don't buy it. It worked out okay for Johnny Mac.

 

[Luxilon Borg]

I don't buy it. It worked out okay for Johnny Mac.

Different time. And his VERY best year, 1984 he was mentally supreme, aside from the epic meltdown at the French...which cost him the match.

However, It came out like a volcanic eruption at the end of the year in Stockholm, lol.

 

[Kieran]

Well, McEnroe had a different attitude to Murray, especially when it came to implementing the killer strike. But the thing is, a guys attitude is past of the person and part of their game. I disagree with him regarding the others in the top 4: isn't it becoming common to agree that Nole is coming short mentally in the big finals?

I think if Murray gets back to full fitness, this kind of thinking may become redundant. Only last summer he was being praised as a certain future number one...

 

[Luxilon Borg]

Well, McEnroe had a different attitude to Murray, especially when it came to implementing the killer strike. But the thing is, a guys attitude is past of the person and part of their game. I disagree with him regarding the others in the top 4: isn't it becoming common to agree that Nole is coming short mentally in the big finals?

I think if Murray gets back to full fitness, this kind of thinking may become redundant. Only last summer he was being praised as a certain future number one...

Correct about MAC..despite the Histrionics, he had a game that could confuse and his ability to end points quickly and not have grind make him a different animal.

Nole occasionally blinks in big matches, but you can hardly fault his attitude.

 

[Kieran]

Nole occasionally blinks in big matches, but you can hardly fault his attitude.

So what's he faulting in Murray? Murray is trying his hardest, but he occasionally throws fits in big matches. I think we'll know more when Andy is back 100%, because for about 12 months from Wimbo 2012 until Wimbledon 2013, he was the best player in the world, more or less...

 

[Luxilon Borg]

Nole occasionally blinks in big matches, but you can hardly fault his attitude.

So what's he faulting in Murray? Murray is trying his hardest, but he occasionally throws fits in big matches. I think we'll know more when Andy is back 100%, because for about 12 months from Wimbo 2012 until Wimbledon 2013, he was the best player in the world, more or less...

He was specifically referring to the constant childish whining and the talking to the box, and the self berating. Last night he had a fit because he didn't like then way his shoes were performing.

This totally separates him from the others noted Fisher.

Ever see Fed or Rafa throw a hissy fit over shoes or look sorry for themselves.

Murray's on court demeanor has long been a topic of discussion.

 

[Kieran]

I saw Federer throw a hissy fit in the 4th set against Nadal at Wimbledon in 2007. Also, in the US Open final against DP. I've seen him shrieking a few times, even at spectators, and once at Murray.

Nadal? I think he's been annoyed by umpires for time delay penalties, but I've never seen him lose control. I've never seen Nole lose control either, but not throwing a hissy fit doesn't mean the guy is stable and fired up.

I agree about Murray's moaning, though, since this seems to utterly gratuitous and inexplicable. Once, he was playing great tennis and he berated himself furiously: "there's nothing on television tonight!"

 

[Luxilon Borg]

Well, two or 3 times in 12 years, and in HUGE matches is hardly worth consideration.

I do also remember his telling Nole's family to shut up...lol. But that is demanding respect
and fairness, not be being a brat.

Didn't he just recently have a few words with Murray on court? At the AO.

Murray really said that? Hysterical.

 

[Riotbeard]

I think this might have been a viable thesis a couple years ago, but it seems he can win big titles while cursing at himself and slumping his shoulders.

 

[Front242]

To quote the title: Ashley Fisher: We Will Never Know How Good Any Murray Is....well, we know Andy Murray is pretty good Jamie Murray is pretty good at doubles, so that's 2 Murrays. Any other Murrays out there?

 

[brokenshoelace]

Ehhhh, this would have been a semi interesting observation a few years ago. He's changed and matured. Just because he berates himself doesn't mean he has a negative attitude. Different players have different ways of getting themselves going, unless I'm supposed to ignore every time Djokovic smashes a racket, looks in disbelief if he misses a shot and has words with his camp, acts like the entire world is conspiring against him if things aren't going his way, gets annoyed when the crowd isn't in his favor, etc... and I'd still say Djokovic has a very good attitude. Again, different players act differently.

 

[brokenshoelace]

I think this might have been a viable thesis a couple years ago, but it seems he can win big titles while cursing at himself and slumping his shoulders.

Posted before reading this. Yes, this, pretty much.

 

[Front242]

Maybe the discussion should be about Ernests Gulbis instead.

 

[Luxilon Borg]

Ehhhh, this would have been a semi interesting observation a few years ago. He's changed and matured. Just because he berates himself doesn't mean he has a negative attitude. Different players have different ways of getting himself going, unless I'm supposed to ignore every time Djokovic smashes a racket, looks in disbelief if he misses a shot and has words with his camp, acts like the entire world is conspiring against him if things aren't going his way, gets annoyed when the crowd isn't in his favor, etc... and I'd still say Djokovic has a very good attitude. Again, different players act differently.

I think Joker is very much the alpha dog when he is on the courts with small deviations when he shows frustration, I would take his attitude over Murray any day.

Remember, this was what Fisher said in air..I happen to agree with it.

 

[Luxilon Borg]

Maybe the discussion should be about Ernests Gulbis instead.

He has been in his best behavior recently, until the Grigor match...

 

[brokenshoelace]

Ehhhh, this would have been a semi interesting observation a few years ago. He's changed and matured. Just because he berates himself doesn't mean he has a negative attitude. Different players have different ways of getting himself going, unless I'm supposed to ignore every time Djokovic smashes a racket, looks in disbelief if he misses a shot and has words with his camp, acts like the entire world is conspiring against him if things aren't going his way, gets annoyed when the crowd isn't in his favor, etc... and I'd still say Djokovic has a very good attitude. Again, different players act differently.

I think Joker is very much the alpha dog when he is on the courts with small deviations when he shows frustration, I would take his attitude over Murray any day.

Remember, this was what Fisher said in air..I happen to agree with it.

I'm aware of that, and I happen to disagree.

 

[Moxie]

Ehhhh, this would have been a semi interesting observation a few years ago. He's changed and matured. Just because he berates himself doesn't mean he has a negative attitude. Different players have different ways of getting himself going, unless I'm supposed to ignore every time Djokovic smashes a racket, looks in disbelief if he misses a shot and has words with his camp, acts like the entire world is conspiring against him if things aren't going his way, gets annoyed when the crowd isn't in his favor, etc... and I'd still say Djokovic has a very good attitude. Again, different players act differently.

I think Joker is very much the alpha dog when he is on the courts with small deviations when he shows frustration, I would take his attitude over Murray any day.

Remember, this was what Fisher said in air..I happen to agree with it.

I'm aware of that, and I happen to disagree.

I also disagree. I think Murray's displays of frustration don't usually harm him, they just piss some people off. (Very like McEnroe.) It's his on-court demeanor, take it or leave it. I think that Djokovic's displays of frustration do harm him. When he starts gazing at the heavens and wondering why the fates abandoned him, he can lose his way.

Also, I disagree with the basic premise: that we'll never know how good Murray is because of his crabbiness. We will know exactly how good he is, by his results. Same with the rest of them. Mental toughness is as much a part of it as anything else. If players distract themselves with tirades, feeling put-upon, etc., that's their fault. It's part of the full package that makes them greater or lesser, overall. There's no such thing as "if Andy Murray weren't Andy Murray." A bit of a prickly pear, on the court. But, personally, I like him, and I liked McEnroe…a prickly pear, if there ever was one.

 

[Luxilon Borg]

Ehhhh, this would have been a semi interesting observation a few years ago. He's changed and matured. Just because he berates himself doesn't mean he has a negative attitude. Different players have different ways of getting himself going, unless I'm supposed to ignore every time Djokovic smashes a racket, looks in disbelief if he misses a shot and has words with his camp, acts like the entire world is conspiring against him if things aren't going his way, gets annoyed when the crowd isn't in his favor, etc... and I'd still say Djokovic has a very good attitude. Again, different players act differently.

I think Joker is very much the alpha dog when he is on the courts with small deviations when he shows frustration, I would take his attitude over Murray any day.

Remember, this was what Fisher said in air..I happen to agree with it.

I'm aware of that, and I happen to disagree.

I also disagree. I think Murray's displays of frustration don't usually harm him, they just piss some people off. (Very like McEnroe.) It's his on-court demeanor, take it or leave it. I think that Djokovic's displays of frustration do harm him. When he starts gazing at the heavens and wondering why the fates abandoned him, he can lose his way.

Also, I disagree with the basic premise: that we'll never know how good Murray is because of his crabbiness. We will know exactly how good he is, by his results. Same with the rest of them. Mental toughness is as much a part of it as anything else. If players distract themselves with tirades, feeling put-upon, etc., that's their fault. It's part of the full package that makes them greater or lesser, overall. There's no such thing as "if Andy Murray weren't Andy Murray." A bit of a prickly pear, on the court. But, personally, I like him, and I liked McEnroe…a prickly pear, if there ever was one.

While most of what you say sounds good..consider this..

We have seen many dominant players change their mental approaches as they acended to the top.

Federer was a notorious, ill tempered brat as a teenager, Nole made no friends, with his chest thumping, Rafa would give sloppy, disrespectful handshakes after a loss, Berdych was weak minded, and Wawrinka got very negative....but they ALL changed, with those changes came RESULTS.

The fact is Murray of the BIG FOUR, is the LEAST accomplished. That is a fact..and the numbers show it. Least amount of slams, least amount of 1000's, etc. Now I know there are technical reasons..court positioning, lack of versatility on the forehand etc, but he is the ONLY one of them that has not altered his approach mentally. He is also the only one that choked away finals.

BTW, Mr. Ivan Lendl made those same changes I told you about..he completely changed his approach on court and became steel, no more hang dog, and nothing but positive reinforcement.

Hmmmmmm

 

[Moxie]

Ehhhh, this would have been a semi interesting observation a few years ago. He's changed and matured. Just because he berates himself doesn't mean he has a negative attitude. Different players have different ways of getting himself going, unless I'm supposed to ignore every time Djokovic smashes a racket, looks in disbelief if he misses a shot and has words with his camp, acts like the entire world is conspiring against him if things aren't going his way, gets annoyed when the crowd isn't in his favor, etc... and I'd still say Djokovic has a very good attitude. Again, different players act differently.

I think Joker is very much the alpha dog when he is on the courts with small deviations when he shows frustration, I would take his attitude over Murray any day.

Remember, this was what Fisher said in air..I happen to agree with it.

I'm aware of that, and I happen to disagree.

I also disagree. I think Murray's displays of frustration don't usually harm him, they just piss some people off. (Very like McEnroe.) It's his on-court demeanor, take it or leave it. I think that Djokovic's displays of frustration do harm him. When he starts gazing at the heavens and wondering why the fates abandoned him, he can lose his way.

Also, I disagree with the basic premise: that we'll never know how good Murray is because of his crabbiness. We will know exactly how good he is, by his results. Same with the rest of them. Mental toughness is as much a part of it as anything else. If players distract themselves with tirades, feeling put-upon, etc., that's their fault. It's part of the full package that makes them greater or lesser, overall. There's no such thing as "if Andy Murray weren't Andy Murray." A bit of a prickly pear, on the court. But, personally, I like him, and I liked McEnroe…a prickly pear, if there ever was one.

While most of what you say sounds good..consider this..

We have seen many dominant players change their mental approaches as they acended to the top.

Federer was a notorious, ill tempered brat as a teenager, Nole made no friends, with his chest thumping, Rafa would give sloppy, disrespectful handshakes after a loss, Berdych was weak minded, and Wawrinka got very negative....but they ALL changed, with those changes came RESULTS.

The fact is Murray of the BIG FOUR, is the LEAST accomplished. That is a fact..and the numbers show it. Least amount of slams, least amount of 1000's, etc. Now I know there are technical reasons..court positioning, lack of versatility on the forehand etc, but he is the ONLY one of them that has not altered his approach mentally. He is also the only one that choked away finals.

BTW, Mr. Ivan Lendl made those same changes I told you about..he completely changed his approach on court and became steel, no more hang dog, and nothing but positive reinforcement.

Hmmmmmm

I don't completely buy your narrative as to what the other big 4 changed. Roger, yes. Rafa, I never heard anything about sloppy and disrespectful handshakes at the net. (Not sure where that came from, but I'm sure we've just introduced another knock on Nadal.) He's need to make technical changes, but I don't think mental ones.

As far as Djokovic, the chest-thumping hasn't stopped, and was actually much newer in his 2.0 iteration. His change was more about diet and confidence, to be accurate. Berdych I don't think has turned the corner, mentally, though Wawrinka has. And I agree that Lendl has put Murray on a path to a stronger road to results. And the results have been forthcoming. I still don't believe that this means that when Murray is crabby on court, he's doing himself in. I think his bigger problem is passiveness in his choices of shot, even though he's very clever on court. He should know better. There were any number of points last night when he had a chance to put it away against Dimitrov, and he let him back in. And Dimitrov, playing the aggressor, put the point away. THAT, IMO, is his problem, not being cranky. No amount of sunshine is going to make him win if he's too passive against an aggressive opponent.