Article on Serena in the New Yorker

[jhar26]

I don't think anyone is saying that race isn't a factor. It just isn't as much of a factor as it once was in her career. I think if anything it is her personality and body type that really leave people at a loss in how to talk about her. I disagree, I think had any other player behaved like Serena did at Wimbledon words like drugs and under the influence would have come out as well because that was a moment that should have never happened. Unfortunately, poor judgment on Serena's part put her in a situation where everyone was speculating.

I would like you to explain more when you talk about her personality because I am really not getting the personality piece. Yea you can believe that about the if it had happened to anyone else they would have mentioned drugs. Again, how did she behave at Wimbeldon? You mean she came out to play even though she was ill and was rediculed for it by people in the media claiming she was on drugs. You are using the word "behave" like she came out on court cussing and throwing balls at people in the stand....poor judgement in trying to perform her job duties. I wonder what it would have been if she had not come on court at all...And yes Race is still a damn big factor you may not want to admit it, but it is don't fool yourself.

I think it's both. No doubt race has a lot to do with it. But so has body type. People, and I'm not even talking about the media, but just "people in general" have always been harsher on Serena than Venus. There was/is always talk on the social media that Serena is a doper. "Look at those arms, those legs. If she's not on steroids I don't know who is. She looks like Ben Johnson or Mike Tyson." There's always been talk like that about her. So to their minds the shocking going's on at Wimbledon only seemed to comfirm the prejudices those people had had for years.

People also have the wrong idea about Serena as a person. They think of her as arrogant and cocky, but in reality she's a fun loving and pretty popular girl among her fellow players. And the way she took Woz under her wings after her personal drama clearly shows that Serena is a kindhearted person and quite the opposite of the self-centered diva some make her out to be.

Yep you read those message boards and they call her ape etc. and the most offensives and degrading names on this planet and yet it's not about race....As I said people see what they want to see. Yep that Roid thing is all over the message boards and it even made it worse when evert, and Pam accused her on being on drugs. Hell look at sam Stouser's(sp) body and Sabine's and no one has ever accused them of using roids. But as I said Serena is black so the slightest thing happen they accuse her of drugs
.Funny I was listening to a Misty Copeland interview and she said that they do the same thing to her claiming she's using roids...etc.

I never said that it's not about race. Of course that's a part of it.

 

[Moxie]

Special, I was really hoping you'd read that article and take some nuance from it. Everyone here has said it'd not that race is excluded, though it has become less of a factor, as Serena and Venus have become such powerhouse figures in tennis. You need to get off the one-note rant. It's much more complicated.

And you're wrong that Stosur and other players with big-guns don't get a accused of doping.

The thing with Serena is that she IS the story. Whether she cuts her foot, or has a day when she's ill and looks loopy, or what she wears, who she dates, etc. This does not denigrate her. It proves she's the most compelling woman in sports.

 

[special700]

Special, I was really hoping you'd read that article and take some nuance from it. Everyone here has said it'd not that race is excluded, though it has become less of a factor, as Serena and Venus have become such powerhouse figures in tennis. You need to get off the one-note rant. It's much more complicated.

And you're wrong that Stosur and other players with big-guns don't get a accused of doping.

The thing with Serena is that she IS the story. Whether she cuts her foot, or has a day when she's ill and looks loopy, or what she wears, who she dates, etc. This does not denigrate her. It proves she's the most compelling woman in sports.

I do understand that Moxie. And no you are wrong I've never seen a post on any message board accusing Sam of being on roids.

 

[Moxie]

Special, I was really hoping you'd read that article and take some nuance from it. Everyone here has said it'd not that race is excluded, though it has become less of a factor, as Serena and Venus have become such powerhouse figures in tennis. You need to get off the one-note rant. It's much more complicated.

And you're wrong that Stosur and other players with big-guns don't get a accused of doping.

The thing with Serena is that she IS the story. Whether she cuts her foot, or has a day when she's ill and looks loopy, or what she wears, who she dates, etc. This does not denigrate her. It proves she's the most compelling woman in sports.

I do understand that Moxie. And no you are wrong I've never seen a post on any message board accusing Sam of being on roids.

There have been inferences made here, or at least on tennis.com, so you just missed them. And Errani even recently here. But it doesn't get debated that much because, frankly, hardly anyone gives 2 sneezes about Stosur or Errani. But if it's Serena, it'll go on for pages, get picked up elsewhere, and then come back again in a month. It's the same with Roger and Rafa, too. When you're at the top of the game, you have fans, but also enemies.

 

[Sundaymorningguy]

The gist of the article is with Serena it isn't so cut and dry.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Special, I was really hoping you'd read that article and take some nuance from it. Everyone here has said it'd not that race is excluded, though it has become less of a factor, as Serena and Venus have become such powerhouse figures in tennis. You need to get off the one-note rant. It's much more complicated.

And you're wrong that Stosur and other players with big-guns don't get a accused of doping.

The thing with Serena is that she IS the story. Whether she cuts her foot, or has a day when she's ill and looks loopy, or what she wears, who she dates, etc. This does not denigrate her. It proves she's the most compelling woman in sports.

I do understand that Moxie. And no you are wrong I've never seen a post on any message board accusing Sam of being on roids.

Hi Special I have seen posts at TW.Com that have accused Stosur being on roids many times over the years sad to say.

 

[kskate2]

I too have seen accusations about Stosur and Errani here and on other boards. I'm also sorry to say that people see what they want to see. If their minds are closed (meaning they're one-tracked), their eyes and ears are not far behind it.

 

[Sundaymorningguy]

Errani was called out when that doctor that she and many of the Spanish players went to got called out or caught doing inappropriate things. I can't remember exactly, but I know she and several players had to endure questions because of some negligent doctor.

 

[Moxie]

Errani was called out when that doctor that she and many of the Spanish players went to got called out or caught doing inappropriate things. I can't remember exactly, but I know she and several players had to endure questions because of some negligent doctor.

Errani was associated with a doctor who was arrested and, I believe, convicted of doping cyclists. This has cast aspersions on her. Likewise, bad things have been said about Stosur, as others point out. This is not where I'd like to put the focus on this conversation, and I don't want to put players who have not been sanctioned for doping in a dark light. There is at least one doping thread in General Tennis Topics, and this is one of them, if you want to discuss:

http://www.tennisfrontier.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=2971

However, point to Special700 and any others who would insist that it only gets put on Serena, and the motivations are racist: No, to both points.

I would ask that we go back to the notion that talking about Serena as the greatest US athlete living is complicated because a) she's not a football player or a basketball player, b) she's a woman, and c) she's an iconoclast, and doesn't conform to norms of what the tennis world or media in general might want in their "tennis sweetheart." Well, eff-them! The best revenge is winning, and Serena does. So, so often.

 

[Kenneth]

The article writer managed to cover every possibility for why one would be under appreciated and wrote it in a whiny style. Serena has won so many trophies and there are thousands of positive articles about her out there, no need to write about her with such pity!

 

[Moxie]

The article writer managed to cover every possibility for why one would be under appreciated and wrote it in a whiny style. Serena has won so many trophies and there are thousands of positive articles about her out there, no need to write about her with such pity!

I'm not sure what you find whiny or pitying about that article. The author, Ian Crouch, made a case for why Serena is America's greatest athlete, and argued against all the reasons why she is not seen as such, fairly and dispassionately. He wasn't pitying her, but championing her. It was no puff-piece, if that's what you'd consider a "positive" article, but a gimlet-eyed appreciation of a great athlete, and what she faces to be seen as such. IMO.

 

[atttomole]

With 18 slams in the bag, she has now equaled Martina and Chris. With that achievement, I would now put Serena above the other two.

 

[Kenneth]

The article writer managed to cover every possibility for why one would be under appreciated and wrote it in a whiny style. Serena has won so many trophies and there are thousands of positive articles about her out there, no need to write about her with such pity!

I'm not sure what you find whiny or pitying about that article. The author, Ian Crouch, made a case for why Serena is America's greatest athlete, and argued against all the reasons why she is not seen as such, fairly and dispassionately. He wasn't pitying her, but championing her. It was no puff-piece, if that's what you'd consider a "positive" article, but a gimlet-eyed appreciation of a great athlete, and what she faces to be seen as such. IMO.

I find this way of showing Serena as a person who has been treated badly as a kind of whinnying. It was no puff-piece that's for sure

 

[Moxie]

The article writer managed to cover every possibility for why one would be under appreciated and wrote it in a whiny style. Serena has won so many trophies and there are thousands of positive articles about her out there, no need to write about her with such pity!

I'm not sure what you find whiny or pitying about that article. The author, Ian Crouch, made a case for why Serena is America's greatest athlete, and argued against all the reasons why she is not seen as such, fairly and dispassionately. He wasn't pitying her, but championing her. It was no puff-piece, if that's what you'd consider a "positive" article, but a gimlet-eyed appreciation of a great athlete, and what she faces to be seen as such. IMO.

I find this way of showing Serena as a person who has been treated badly as a kind of whinnying. It was no puff-piece that's for sure

If you think the NYer is whining, (or pandering,) you've never read the New Yorker. But you're entitled to your impression.

 

[sk310]

The article writer managed to cover every possibility for why one would be under appreciated and wrote it in a whiny style. Serena has won so many trophies and there are thousands of positive articles about her out there, no need to write about her with such pity!

I'm not sure what you find whiny or pitying about that article. The author, Ian Crouch, made a case for why Serena is America's greatest athlete, and argued against all the reasons why she is not seen as such, fairly and dispassionately. He wasn't pitying her, but championing her. It was no puff-piece, if that's what you'd consider a "positive" article, but a gimlet-eyed appreciation of a great athlete, and what she faces to be seen as such. IMO.

I find this way of showing Serena as a person who has been treated badly as a kind of whinnying. It was no puff-piece that's for sure

If you think the NYer is whining, (or pandering,) you've never read the New Yorker. But you're entitled to your impression.

I agree with Moxie 100%. If you are a reader of the New Yorker you should know they wouldn't choose to write an article on a sports personality and make it a puff piece. That's not their m.o.

I'm not quite sure how it is whinny to point out the difficulties a sports star has faced while trying to make the case that they're the greatest athlete in a generation. That's called supporting your theory with evidence.

 

[sk310]

Special, I was really hoping you'd read that article and take some nuance from it. Everyone here has said it'd not that race is excluded, though it has become less of a factor, as Serena and Venus have become such powerhouse figures in tennis. You need to get off the one-note rant. It's much more complicated.

And you're wrong that Stosur and other players with big-guns don't get a accused of doping.

The thing with Serena is that she IS the story. Whether she cuts her foot, or has a day when she's ill and looks loopy, or what she wears, who she dates, etc. This does not denigrate her. It proves she's the most compelling woman in sports.

I agree, again, with Moxie. It's really frustrating to try and have a conversation where you're essentially agreeing with the person but they remain defensive because you won't accept their point completely.

I don't think any of us are trying to say race hasn't been a factor in a lot of difficulties Serena has faced. Yet, Special you need to read the evidence people are making here and try to let it penetrate your wall. All we're trying to say is that there are a number of factors Serena hasn't become America's Tennis Sweetheart. In my mind it's equatable with the reason Billie Jean would never quite be an American Sweetheart or Kvitova. Serena has a body type and a look and attitude that is still denigrated in American (and quite frankly World) society.

Again, I harken back to the days of tennis.com. A lot of us here were on that board. Many of us were either big Serena fans or at least very respectful of her game and achievements. Yet the droves of Serena zealots refused to have a two sided dignified conversation about her. Any time we would say even the slightest negative thing they would launch into a negative tirade. It's frustrating and I think we're all more mature than that.

 

[Moxie]

^ Such excellent points, sk310. The "Serena Question" is complicated, with many moving parts, not just the one. We should be able to discuss everything about her and her game without the Wall (as you say) of race springing up and negating the more subtle conversations. Heck, one of the reasons she isn't more recognized as the greatest American athlete now is that she plays tennis. That's just a favoritism of other sports over tennis.

 

[colleen66]

The issue is not race "negating" the more subtle conversations, but how some posters only want to discuss those subtle conversations while NOT allowing that race has and still does play an issue.

 

[sk310]

@Colleen actually I'm sorry you're completely wrong. We find Serena fascinating, it diminishes Serena's trials and tribulations and her success to ONLY discuss them within the scope of race. We've all been on tennis message boards for years. We've had the race discussion MANY times as it pertains to Venus and Serena.

To be honest we're mostly just ready to discuss the complicated other issues surrounding Serena's place in society as well as all women sports stars.

If Serena has had troubles connecting with society/the tennis world, it's pretty small minded to claim the only big issue is about racism. How about feminism? How about body consciousness? How about women still being expected, even as sports stars, to be submissive and sweet in the way they speak? The scope is not so small that every time this discussion arises we must first and foremost discuss race.

 

[Sundaymorningguy]

I think the thing with Serena that I was hoping many fans would have taken from the article is it is far too complicated to attribute her successes and failures as an athlete to one thing. I admit as a fan at times I don't even understand her. I like the fact with Serena that I never know what I am going to get from her. I think some of what has made Serena successful is she takes to heart the good and the bad from the public. I think if you look at her Wimbledon results and fall out this year that you can see she took it upon herself to improve and make a hard court run. I think Serena is a good sport in that she takes her lumps when she has to take them.