Article on Serena in the New Yorker

[Sundaymorningguy]

This is a beautiful article that discusses Serena as an athlete. It discusses so many good things.

New Yorker Article about Serena

 

[tossip]

This is a beautiful article that discusses Serena as an athlete. It discusses so many good things.

New Yorker Article about Serena

a very good read..:clap

 

[Moxie]

That is a fantastic article. Not only for being well-written, and for making the case for Serena as America's greatest athlete, but also for being frank about the whole of why Serena is under-appreciated. I think it makes the case that gender is a huge issue, and that race is a factor. But the author makes the complicated observation that gender/race/body-type and iconoclasm are all contributing factors, and why they are, which I think adds a lot of nuance to the conversation, which is sometimes lacking in our discussions on these boards.

Since Serena can be so polarizing in conversations on the forums, I would encourage anyone who debates for or against her to read this piece. Serena herself is a super-talented, complicated and fascinating athlete. I think she deserves to be discussed in ways that are not one- or two-dimensional, either from the pro- or con-side. I buy the author's argument that she is currently the greatest athlete in the US.

 

[Sundaymorningguy]

I like the fact that he calls people out for attacking her body type.

 

[sk310]

I saw this on Facebook and reposted it. I really agree. From a purely athletic perspective I think Serena is unmatched across any sport of this generation.

@Moxie I agree with you. Although I do remember these issues coming up more in the Tennis.com forums and becoming really toxic really quickly. If we can discuss these issues as educated adults I think it's fine. I'm a huge Serena fan. I think the problem came when overzealous fans took offense to people trying to parse out how they felt about this issue.

I've constantly said to people I think there is such a mix of reasons why Serena is under appreciated. People do like female athletes, tennis players included. Yet, Serena makes people uncomfortable. She has an uncompromisingly athletic body. At the same time she loves her body and enjoys her figure. I think race was more of an issue at the start of Venus and Serena's career. At that time men's tennis had already long become internationalized and mainstreamed. I think women's tennis needed a bit more time. To me at least in the late 1990s women's tennis was still a bit for the large niche of people who followed it. They are used to seeing lily white ingenues like Chrissy and Monica Seles.

At this point I think that race has pretty much ceased to be an issue for the most part. I do believe a lot of the issue is Serena's body type and her strong personality. If you look at the tennis players who don't have the "right" body type (Kvitoa and Taylor Townsend types) they shrink from the public eye and wear bland clothing. Serena is proud of her muscular curvaceous frame and shows it off. Secondly the article perfectly states the double standard given to men over women. For years before he started winning Djokovic had such a bad attitude about other players and yet he wasn't hounded the way Serena was. Also that part of Serena's personality is something we haven't seen in nearly half a decade. With age she calmed down and now ALL I ever see of her is complimentary commentary on her fellow players.

The article makes a great overall point about female athletes. Yes, you can become rich, revered, loved...if you fit the mold.
If you're beautiful in the traditional western sense, if you toe the line with the "correct attitude, and win you'll be adored.

 

[Moxie]

^ I think you make a lot of really strong and important points here, sk310. I do think race moves down the list and gender is still important, in the issues with regards to under appreciating Serena. And body-type is not without consideration, as Sundaymorningguy points out, but Serena will have none of it. She has a strong, athletic body, it serves her well, and she is rightfully proud of it. That in itself is against convention. And, yes, totally agreed that men get away with much more arrogance than women do.

 

[tossip]

people critize Serena for her big arms...but thats where her money is..those big sized arms have generated millions upon millions of dollars.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Some people feel as though Serena and Venus are the first black women in tennis. That is
just not true. Tennis had seen both black men and women before.

Also, some people think as though they are the first successful black women in tennis.
That is also not true even though the early pioneers are not as successful as them.

I think under appreciation of Serena has more to do with her personality and body type
and less to do with race.

 

[special700]

That is a fantastic article. Not only for being well-written, and for making the case for Serena as America's greatest athlete, but also for being frank about the whole of why Serena is under-appreciated. I think it makes the case that gender is a huge issue, and that race is a factor. But the author makes the complicated observation that gender/race/body-type and iconoclasm are all contributing factors, and why they are, which I think adds a lot of nuance to the conversation, which is sometimes lacking in our discussions on these boards.

Since Serena can be so polarizing in conversations on the forums, I would encourage anyone who debates for or against her to read this piece. Serena herself is a super-talented, complicated and fascinating athlete. I think she deserves to be discussed in ways that are not one- or two-dimensional, either from the pro- or con-side. I buy the author's argument that she is currently the greatest athlete in the US.

No race is a huge issue and gender is a factor.

 

[special700]

I like the fact that he calls people out for attacking her body type.

Man if I had a body like Serena's and it was allowed I would walk around naked everyday except during the cold weather.

 

[special700]

I saw this on Facebook and reposted it. I really agree. From a purely athletic perspective I think Serena is unmatched across any sport of this generation.

@Moxie I agree with you. Although I do remember these issues coming up more in the Tennis.com forums and becoming really toxic really quickly. If we can discuss these issues as educated adults I think it's fine. I'm a huge Serena fan. I think the problem came when overzealous fans took offense to people trying to parse out how they felt about this issue.

I've constantly said to people I think there is such a mix of reasons why Serena is under appreciated. People do like female athletes, tennis players included. Yet, Serena makes people uncomfortable. She has an uncompromisingly athletic body. At the same time she loves her body and enjoys her figure. I think race was more of an issue at the start of Venus and Serena's career. At that time men's tennis had already long become internationalized and mainstreamed. I think women's tennis needed a bit more time. To me at least in the late 1990s women's tennis was still a bit for the large niche of people who followed it. They are used to seeing lily white ingenues like Chrissy and Monica Seles.

At this point I think that race has pretty much ceased to be an issue for the most part. I do believe a lot of the issue is Serena's body type and her strong personality. If you look at the tennis players who don't have the "right" body type (Kvitoa and Taylor Townsend types) they shrink from the public eye and wear bland clothing. Serena is proud of her muscular curvaceous frame and shows it off. Secondly the article perfectly states the double standard given to men over women. For years before he started winning Djokovic had such a bad attitude about other players and yet he wasn't hounded the way Serena was. Also that part of Serena's personality is something we haven't seen in nearly half a decade. With age she calmed down and now ALL I ever see of her is complimentary commentary on her fellow players.

The article makes a great overall point about female athletes. Yes, you can become rich, revered, loved...if you fit the mold.
If you're beautiful in the traditional western sense, if you toe the line with the "correct attitude, and win you'll be adored.

Please tell me you are not serious with that statement.

 

[special700]

Some people feel as though Serena and Venus are the first black women in tennis. That is
just not true. Tennis had seen both black men and women before.

Also, some people think as though they are the first successful black women in tennis.
That is also not true even though the early pioneers are not as successful as them.

I think under appreciation of Serena has more to do with her personality and body type
and less to do with race.

Wow!!!! I just think some of you guys are beine naive or just want to ignore that race is the number factor for the dislike towards Serena, just like it is the # one factor for a black man being in the White house. Prime example - Serena was ill in Wimbledon doubles and she was accused of being on drugs had that been any other player the word "drugs" would have never been uttered, but because she's black she just had to be on drugs.

 

[Sundaymorningguy]

I don't think anyone is saying that race isn't a factor. It just isn't as much of a factor as it once was in her career. I think if anything it is her personality and body type that really leave people at a loss in how to talk about her. I disagree, I think had any other player behaved like Serena did at Wimbledon words like drugs and under the influence would have come out as well because that was a moment that should have never happened. Unfortunately, poor judgment on Serena's part put her in a situation where everyone was speculating.

 

[special700]

I don't think anyone is saying that race isn't a factor. It just isn't as much of a factor as it once was in her career. I think if anything it is her personality and body type that really leave people at a loss in how to talk about her. I disagree, I think had any other player behaved like Serena did at Wimbledon words like drugs and under the influence would have come out as well because that was a moment that should have never happened. Unfortunately, poor judgment on Serena's part put her in a situation where everyone was speculating.

I would like you to explain more when you talk about her personality because I am really not getting the personality piece. Yea you can believe that about the if it had happened to anyone else they would have mentioned drugs. Again, how did she behave at Wimbeldon? You mean she came out to play even though she was ill and was rediculed for it by people in the media claiming she was on drugs. You are using the word "behave" like she came out on court cussing and throwing balls at people in the stand....poor judgement in trying to perform her job duties. I wonder what it would have been if she had not come on court at all...And yes Race is still a damn big factor you may not want to admit it, but it is don't fool yourself.

 

[Sundaymorningguy]

The point was she was not fit to play tennis that day. Her emotions were all over the place. She was crying and could not perform how she needed to to make a decent match of it. That was poor judgment on her part. I was using the word behaved as in how her body and emotions reacted that day. You can say what you want, but it was poor judgment on Serena's part to play that match. She would have endured a day of disappointment and talk in her dropping out versus a few weeks of what was wrong with her. As I said, race will always be a factor with Serena, but it is not nearly the factor it once was in her career. I mean you have people now wanting her to excel past the Navratilovas, Everts and Grafs of the tennis world. You even have those women wanting her to take her place in tennis history.

Serena is bold, honest, and very outgoing. She is a very heart on her sleeves type of person. There are a good portion of people who don't know how to deal with an assertive woman like Serena. What do most people do when they don't know what to do with personality types they are uncomfortable with they either dismiss or diminish. I think that more than anything is what people have a hard time with when it comes to Serena. I mean look at everyone else on the women's side. They toe the line in their pressers for the most part. They play the tennis game. Serena has never been that way. She has been the type of person who will speak on anything.

I happen to like Serena. Do I agree with everything she does or says no, but I recognize like everyone she is human. A big example I will give you is when she spoke out about the Steubenville rape case. What she said was a big example of why some people don't really know how to respond to Serena.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

^ Thank you I totally agree with your comments regarding Serena in your post.

 

[sk310]

I don't think anyone is saying that race isn't a factor. It just isn't as much of a factor as it once was in her career. I think if anything it is her personality and body type that really leave people at a loss in how to talk about her. I disagree, I think had any other player behaved like Serena did at Wimbledon words like drugs and under the influence would have come out as well because that was a moment that should have never happened. Unfortunately, poor judgment on Serena's part put her in a situation where everyone was speculating.

I would like you to explain more when you talk about her personality because I am really not getting the personality piece. Yea you can believe that about the if it had happened to anyone else they would have mentioned drugs. Again, how did she behave at Wimbeldon? You mean she came out to play even though she was ill and was rediculed for it by people in the media claiming she was on drugs. You are using the word "behave" like she came out on court cussing and throwing balls at people in the stand....poor judgement in trying to perform her job duties. I wonder what it would have been if she had not come on court at all...And yes Race is still a damn big factor you may not want to admit it, but it is don't fool yourself.

Listen, this is exactly what I was writing about before. Your language is becoming quite combative and defensive when we're all at fans or at very least respect Serena very much.

When we say Serena's personality what we mean is that she is a vivacious champion who has never been mistaken for a shrinking violet. She speaks her mind even if it isn't diplomatic. People expect women athletes (of all races) to be gracious, calm, collected, focused and quiet. While male athletes are allowed to range from calm and collected to wild and outrageously aggressive. I applaud Serena for being Serena. I applaud her attitude. Admittedly any close watcher of tennis has to admit it's softened significantly with age and she's become MUCH more diplomatic in her press conferences as it pertains to other players.

 

[sk310]

Perhaps I misspoke when I said race has ceased to be an issue. What I meant to say was race has ceased to be THE issue surrounding Serena.

When Venus and Serena came on the scene it was very clearly the fact that they were two black girls from Compton that threw people off. I don't think it's that people were against them for this reason particularly. I mean it was an amazing story that brought a lot of really good press to the tennis world in general. Yet, even at the tail end of the 1990s in a fairly liberal sport that saw the greatest stars of the 1970s and 1980s come out as lesbians--there were lingering race issues.

Now, I think the focus and dislike of Serena comes more from her body and her attitude. What I mean by this is that since the early 2000s we've seen tennis women stars begin to become marketing juggernauts. Maria Sharapova makes far and away more than Serena, yet she's never even come CLOSE to the amount of success. I think people look at a player like Serena or even Kvitova (heavy set) and say that is not the body type I want to see in advertising.

 

[jhar26]

I don't think anyone is saying that race isn't a factor. It just isn't as much of a factor as it once was in her career. I think if anything it is her personality and body type that really leave people at a loss in how to talk about her. I disagree, I think had any other player behaved like Serena did at Wimbledon words like drugs and under the influence would have come out as well because that was a moment that should have never happened. Unfortunately, poor judgment on Serena's part put her in a situation where everyone was speculating.

I would like you to explain more when you talk about her personality because I am really not getting the personality piece. Yea you can believe that about the if it had happened to anyone else they would have mentioned drugs. Again, how did she behave at Wimbeldon? You mean she came out to play even though she was ill and was rediculed for it by people in the media claiming she was on drugs. You are using the word "behave" like she came out on court cussing and throwing balls at people in the stand....poor judgement in trying to perform her job duties. I wonder what it would have been if she had not come on court at all...And yes Race is still a damn big factor you may not want to admit it, but it is don't fool yourself.

I think it's both. No doubt race has a lot to do with it. But so has body type. People, and I'm not even talking about the media, but just "people in general" have always been harsher on Serena than Venus. There was/is always talk on the social media that Serena is a doper. "Look at those arms, those legs. If she's not on steroids I don't know who is. She looks like Ben Johnson or Mike Tyson." There's always been talk like that about her. So to their minds the shocking going's on at Wimbledon only seemed to comfirm the prejudices those people had had for years.

People also have the wrong idea about Serena as a person. They think of her as arrogant and cocky, but in reality she's a fun loving and pretty popular girl among her fellow players. And the way she took Woz under her wings after her personal drama clearly shows that Serena is a kindhearted person and quite the opposite of the self-centered diva some make her out to be.

 

[special700]

I don't think anyone is saying that race isn't a factor. It just isn't as much of a factor as it once was in her career. I think if anything it is her personality and body type that really leave people at a loss in how to talk about her. I disagree, I think had any other player behaved like Serena did at Wimbledon words like drugs and under the influence would have come out as well because that was a moment that should have never happened. Unfortunately, poor judgment on Serena's part put her in a situation where everyone was speculating.

I would like you to explain more when you talk about her personality because I am really not getting the personality piece. Yea you can believe that about the if it had happened to anyone else they would have mentioned drugs. Again, how did she behave at Wimbeldon? You mean she came out to play even though she was ill and was rediculed for it by people in the media claiming she was on drugs. You are using the word "behave" like she came out on court cussing and throwing balls at people in the stand....poor judgement in trying to perform her job duties. I wonder what it would have been if she had not come on court at all...And yes Race is still a damn big factor you may not want to admit it, but it is don't fool yourself.

I think it's both. No doubt race has a lot to do with it. But so has body type. People, and I'm not even talking about the media, but just "people in general" have always been harsher on Serena than Venus. There was/is always talk on the social media that Serena is a doper. "Look at those arms, those legs. If she's not on steroids I don't know who is. She looks like Ben Johnson or Mike Tyson." There's always been talk like that about her. So to their minds the shocking going's on at Wimbledon only seemed to comfirm the prejudices those people had had for years.

People also have the wrong idea about Serena as a person. They think of her as arrogant and cocky, but in reality she's a fun loving and pretty popular girl among her fellow players. And the way she took Woz under her wings after her personal drama clearly shows that Serena is a kindhearted person and quite the opposite of the self-centered diva some make her out to be.

Yep you read those message boards and they call her ape etc. and the most offensives and degrading names on this planet and yet it's not about race....As I said people see what they want to see. Yep that Roid thing is all over the message boards and it even made it worse when evert, and Pam accused her on being on drugs. Hell look at sam Stouser's(sp) body and Sabine's and no one has ever accused them of using roids. But as I said Serena is black so the slightest thing happen they accuse her of drugs
.Funny I was listening to a Misty Copeland interview and she said that they do the same thing to her claiming she's using roids...etc.