Are the Big Four Back? (Or is it too soon to say?)

[calitennis127]

Let's remember that Djokovic currently holds no slams and somehow managed to lose in the QF of his favorite slam. Aside from last Fall he hasn't been playing well for a very long time now.

Let's also remember that Novak has won the last three ATP 1000s! That doesn't seem to fit the notion of him not playing well for a very long time. He did beat Roger, and while maybe Roger wasn't at his very best he was still playing quite well. I watched the end of the match against Robredo and Novak looked very good to me.

I feel like poor Novak is cursed with his greatness from the US Open of 2010 to the AO of 2012. He played at such an incredible level, yet has been quite good since - just not quite as good. We can't expect him to ever get back to that level, just like we can't expect Roger to ever get back to his ultimate peak of 2006, or Rafa in 2010 (although 2013 was close). In other words, we might have to accept the fact that THIS is Novak, and he's a pretty good player!

It's funny how Djokovic saves 2 match points against Federer in the US Open semis of 2011, but then he loses a 5th set 9-7 to Wawrinka in the 2014 Australian Open, and somehow his level in 2011 was just so much better than 2014.

I recommend that everyone take a look at Novak's season in 2011. He didn't win every match with scores like 6-2, 6-2 - except for the some matches like the Madrid and Rome finals against Nadal. He actually dropped a set in both the IW and Miami finals.

 

[calitennis127]

I feel like poor Novak is cursed with his greatness from the US Open of 2010 to the AO of 2012. He played at such an incredible level, yet has been quite good since - just not quite as good. We can't expect him to ever get back to that level, just like we can't expect Roger to ever get back to his ultimate peak of 2006, or Rafa in 2010 (although 2013 was close). In other words, we might have to accept the fact that THIS is Novak, and he's a pretty good player!

The inability to sustain that "greatness" is the difference between guys like Fed and Sampras (and Nadal) and guys like Nole - especially in the GOAT conversation. You have to be able to bring it year in and year out for 5, 6, 7 years in a row. So far Nole hasn't been able to do that. He's an excellent player but I wouldn't use the world "great" to describe him. And I'm not shading Nole. I like Nole. I just don't think he's ever going to make it to double-digits in Slam wins.

Well I think the two most obvious inexcusable losses on Djokovic's resume are the US Open finals against Nadal. He blew what should have been two straightforward wins there against an inferior hardcourt player, and that would have his Slam count at 8, with Nadal's only being 11 and completely weighted toward clay. Not to mention - Djokovic should have one or two French Opens by now and has underachieved at that event.

When you look at it like that, Djokovic has underachieved to this point in his career at the Slams. He should be at at least 8 or 9 Slams right now (at least).

 

[El Dude]

OK, maybe I spoke too soon. The loss the Nishikori is quite worrisome. That was "vintage" 2013 from Roger.

 

[Tennis Miller]

OK, maybe I spoke too soon. The loss the Nishikori is quite worrisome. That was "vintage" 2013 from Roger.

Quite rightly. Get used to 2013 Roger, and don't believe the hype about him being "back" in 2014.

His ability to play quality tennis for more than 2 hours seems completely gone.

Cheers
TM

 

[DarthFed]

This thread suddenly looks like an epic fail.

 

[JesuslookslikeBorg]

well it is not a fail ..epic or otherwise. Federer is rank 4 next week , murray will soon rise too.

 

[brokenshoelace]

It's not too soon to say they're back. It was too soon to say they were gone.

So profound.

Thank you sir. I'd say the same about your tennis knowledge.

 

[brokenshoelace]

This thread suddenly looks like an epic fail.

So general narratives fluctuate on a match-to-match basis? Yeah, sounds like the bandwagoning nature of tennis fans that irritates the hell out of me.

I'm sorry to call out Fed fans, but good grief, you guys change your minds after each set that he plays. I've never seen so many shifts between optimism and pessimism so quickly.

 

[brokenshoelace]

OK, maybe I spoke too soon. The loss the Nishikori is quite worrisome. That was "vintage" 2013 from Roger.

It's not worrisome. It's just one of those "shit happens" moments.

I'll reiterate what I said a while back: Federer will not have a particularly great clay court season, his fans will freak out, then he'll look much better on faster surfaces to spark optimism once again.

 

[herios]

Too soon. Until they are ranked 1-4, nope, they are not.

 

[DarthFed]

This thread is in regards to the four of them completely gobbling up all the big titles on tour and where it is the norm that all 4, or at the very least 3 of the 4, will always be in the semis of majors. I just don't see that happening yet.

 

[britbox]

This thread suddenly looks like an epic fail.

So general narratives fluctuate on a match-to-match basis? Yeah, sounds like the bandwagoning nature of tennis fans that irritates the hell out of me.

I'm sorry to call out Fed fans, but good grief, you guys change your minds after each set that he plays. I've never seen so many shifts between optimism and pessimism so quickly.

Got to agree with this. The old "What did you do for me yesterday?" theory is fast becoming the "What did you do for me in the last half hour?" theory. I didn't like the former and like the latter even less.

 

[El Dude]

You're probably right, Broken. But understand where us Fed fans are coming from: there's a long way to fall.

Anyhow, I realize that I over-reacted. I'm not giving up on him yet this year and expect him to be better than last year - he has been by quite a bit already. It is clear, though, that he's a step behind the Big Two and would need a real lucky break and hot streak to win a Masters or Slam.

I'm curious to see how he matches up against Andy Murray.

 

[britbox]

I feel like poor Novak is cursed with his greatness from the US Open of 2010 to the AO of 2012. He played at such an incredible level, yet has been quite good since - just not quite as good. We can't expect him to ever get back to that level, just like we can't expect Roger to ever get back to his ultimate peak of 2006, or Rafa in 2010 (although 2013 was close). In other words, we might have to accept the fact that THIS is Novak, and he's a pretty good player!

The inability to sustain that "greatness" is the difference between guys like Fed and Sampras (and Nadal) and guys like Nole - especially in the GOAT conversation. You have to be able to bring it year in and year out for 5, 6, 7 years in a row. So far Nole hasn't been able to do that. He's an excellent player but I wouldn't use the world "great" to describe him. And I'm not shading Nole. I like Nole. I just don't think he's ever going to make it to double-digits in Slam wins.

Well I think the two most obvious inexcusable losses on Djokovic's resume are the US Open finals against Nadal. He blew what should have been two straightforward wins there against an inferior hardcourt player, and that would have his Slam count at 8, with Nadal's only being 11 and completely weighted toward clay. Not to mention - Djokovic should have one or two French Opens by now and has underachieved at that event.

When you look at it like that, Djokovic has underachieved to this point in his career at the Slams. He should be at at least 8 or 9 Slams right now (at least).

Maybe they shouldn't bother playing the matches...and just ask Uncle Cali to award the trophy.

I guess you didn't watch the 2010 US Open from start to finish because Nadal was far and away the dominant player during the entire tournament and played a great final. That tournament was Nadal's pinnacle (outside of clay) as far as I'm concerned. I'm not a Nadal fan by any means, but was left scratching my head after it finished on how Nole was going to beat him going forward. 2011 changed things of course, but how you can regard that loss as inexcusable is in itself inexcusable.

 

[britbox]

You're probably right, Broken. But understand where us Fed fans are coming from: there's a long way to fall.

Anyhow, I realize that I over-reacted. I'm not giving up on him yet this year and expect him to be better than last year - he has been by quite a bit already. It is clear, though, that he's a step behind the Big Two and would need a real lucky break and hot streak to win a Masters or Slam.

I'm curious to see how he matches up against Andy Murray.

He was a few points away from winning Indian Wells and beat Djokovic to win Dubai already this year.

Federer is a step behind the "big two"... I'm not sure why this is breaking news - he has been for nearly four years. On his day, I think he can take some matches against Nole, but he will lose a few more than he wins. Nadal... I think that's ship has largely sailed although I wouldn't rule out the odd match here or there. Murray - I'd expect Fed to split matches, maybe even edge it.

What's really new?

I think he will have a better year than last and be in and around the top 4 and in the mix for some silverware. Enjoy it.

 

[Riotbeard]

You're probably right, Broken. But understand where us Fed fans are coming from: there's a long way to fall.

So you guys are the tennis fan equivalent of the richest man in world plummeting all the way down to the sixth richest.

"You think you have it rough, I might have to change my vault full of gold bars into silver."

 

[El Dude]

You're probably right, Broken. But understand where us Fed fans are coming from: there's a long way to fall.

So you guys are the tennis fan equivalent of the richest man in world plummeting all the way down to the sixth richest.

"You think you have it rough, I might have to change my vault full of gold bars into silver."

Its called "First World Problems."

:s

 

[calitennis127]

It's not too soon to say they're back. It was too soon to say they were gone.

So profound.

Thank you sir. I'd say the same about your tennis knowledge.

Broken, I am glad to see you are maintaining your confidence after setting an all-time record of opining stupidity with your remark that "if Nadal plays as poorly against Federer as he did against Dimitrov, then HE LOSES" - as if that was even possible.

Oh yeah, and how can I forget about your objections to the forehand down-the-line strategy for Federer? "He doesn't do it, therefore it wouldn't work". Total brilliance. I just love talking tennis with someone who gets the details as well as you do.

 

[calitennis127]

I feel like poor Novak is cursed with his greatness from the US Open of 2010 to the AO of 2012. He played at such an incredible level, yet has been quite good since - just not quite as good. We can't expect him to ever get back to that level, just like we can't expect Roger to ever get back to his ultimate peak of 2006, or Rafa in 2010 (although 2013 was close). In other words, we might have to accept the fact that THIS is Novak, and he's a pretty good player!

The inability to sustain that "greatness" is the difference between guys like Fed and Sampras (and Nadal) and guys like Nole - especially in the GOAT conversation. You have to be able to bring it year in and year out for 5, 6, 7 years in a row. So far Nole hasn't been able to do that. He's an excellent player but I wouldn't use the world "great" to describe him. And I'm not shading Nole. I like Nole. I just don't think he's ever going to make it to double-digits in Slam wins.

Well I think the two most obvious inexcusable losses on Djokovic's resume are the US Open finals against Nadal. He blew what should have been two straightforward wins there against an inferior hardcourt player, and that would have his Slam count at 8, with Nadal's only being 11 and completely weighted toward clay. Not to mention - Djokovic should have one or two French Opens by now and has underachieved at that event.

When you look at it like that, Djokovic has underachieved to this point in his career at the Slams. He should be at at least 8 or 9 Slams right now (at least).

Maybe they shouldn't bother playing the matches...and just ask Uncle Cali to award the trophy.

I guess you didn't watch the 2010 US Open from start to finish because Nadal was far and away the dominant player during the entire tournament and played a great final. That tournament was Nadal's pinnacle (outside of clay) as far as I'm concerned. I'm not a Nadal fan by any means, but was left scratching my head after it finished on how Nole was going to beat him going forward. 2011 changed things of course, but how you can regard that loss as inexcusable is in itself inexcusable.

I guess it was you who didn't watch that US Open start to finish and has very little recollection of it.

Nadal looked pitiful in his first two matches. He struggled to hit more than 10 winners against two no-names. After that, he played fairly well against Simon, before going through arguably the weakest draw he has ever faced at a Slam. He played an exhausted Verdasco in the quarters (who came down from 2 sets to 0 against Ferrer) and an exhausted Youzhny in the semis (who won in 5 long sets against Wawrinka). That run was one of the most overrated runs in any sport that I have seen get so hyped up.

Oh, and what Djokovic did to Nadal in 2011 came as absolutely no surprise to me. He just played very poorly in that 2010 US Open final.

 

[Kieran]

Rafa zoned in on that 2010 US Open title. He lost serve how many times, in the whole event? Dropped only one set throughout. He was awesome, buddy, invincible. Even better than last year, although last years Novak was a tougher more seasoned fellow in the final...