Are Federer and Nadal still too old to compete for Grand Slam titles?

[DarthFed]

^The Nadal that just got the AO final has a chance of going deep at Wimbledon. He's hitting the ball a bit flatter, his backhand looks lethal. I wouldn't discount him at any slam right now

It's interesting looking back and coming to the shocking realization that the backhand was the stronger shot for both Federer and Nadal throughout this event. And due to that it makes me kind of want to "slow the roll" in thinking that Fedal can come close to keeping up the play we just saw. I don't think their backhands are always going to be clicking like they were at Oz. But with that said I don't think Rafa has to hit his BH as well as he did to win at RG this year. It is his best surface and his forehand even now is still deadly there. And the same holds true for Roger at Wimbledon where his serve and all around attacking tennis means that he can win that event even if his backhand is nowhere near what we just saw.

 

[Federberg]

It's interesting looking back and coming to the shocking realization that the backhand was the stronger shot for both Federer and Nadal throughout this event. And due to that it makes me kind of want to "slow the roll" in thinking that Fedal can come close to keeping up the play we just saw. I don't think their backhands are always going to be clicking like they were at Oz. But with that said I don't think Rafa has to hit his BH as well as he did to win at RG this year. It is his best surface and his forehand even now is still deadly there. And the same holds true for Roger at Wimbledon where his serve and all around attacking tennis means that he can win that event even if his backhand is nowhere near what we just saw.

I hear you, but consider this. One of the most talented players the game has ever seen has had extended down time for the last few months to work on his game. I have this image of him doing backhand drills over and over again. I may be proved wrong, but the way he went all out with his backhand like that.... I've never seen that from Roger before. In adversity he's always gone to his comfort zone before. Here's the thing... I actually felt that in those last 5 games he went to his comfort zone with the backhand. His new comfort zone...

Time will tell... but we just might have a new beastie on our hands. I'm not saying this is Darth Federer of yore... but our old assumptions might be wrong. Mid 30s is the new mid 20s after all

 

[DarthFed]

You may be right, he is THE most talented player of all time and by a good margin. And this was the first extended downtime he's had in his entire career. Another factor is the surface was fast and fairly low bouncing so that helps the backhand too but that was maybe the best he's ever hit it or damn close. And if he can bring that to Wimbledon and the USO he'd be damn tough to stop especially if he gets the ranking up more.

 

[shawnbm]

Well, I re-watched it too and I have two things that jumped out at me. Yes, it was, as far as I can recall, the most I have seen him flatten out or otherwise hit driving backhands during rallies in years. I don't know but believe he may not have employed the slice as much as either a topspin or flattened backhand shot. I could be wrong.

The other thing was the manner in which he hit the backhand return. There were some slices, but they were more orchestrated unless he was simply out of position. He drove the return back more than usual on that side, and I don't recall him doing it that much since the 2003-2004 era when he would attack more all the way around--got to the net more back then.

I guess I am now thinking of a third thing, and that was his fleetness of foot, particularly when running around to hit a forehand. It seemed to me he had worked on nimble foot movements and his stamina was good. It was impressive all the way around and incredible for (although very fit) 35 year old veteran.

 

[britbox]

Well, I re-watched it too and I have two things that jumped out at me. Yes, it was, as far as I can recall, the most I have seen him flatten out or otherwise hit driving backhands during rallies in years. I don't know but believe he may not have employed the slice as much as either a topspin or flattened backhand shot. I could be wrong.

The other thing was the manner in which he hit the backhand return. There were some slices, but they were more orchestrated unless he was simply out of position. He drove the return back more than usual on that side, and I don't recall him doing it that much since the 2003-2004 era when he would attack more all the way around--got to the net more back then.

I guess I am now thinking of a third thing, and that was his fleetness of foot, particularly when running around to hit a forehand. It seemed to me he had worked on nimble foot movements and his stamina was good. It was impressive all the way around and incredible for (although very fit) 35 year old veteran.

Definitely a lot less slice... He was driving through the backhand and much more aggressive on the return than in previous encounters.

I also thought he showed patience when it mattered in some of the longer rallies, not pulling the trigger to early.

 

[mrzz]

Speaking about Wimbledon, in case anyone hasn´t noticed yet, I am rooting for #19 at SW19 (barring a miracle at RG).

Since @Federberg beat me to the spoiler at match point, I won´t let him think he came first with the catchy hashtag. Let me gloat that I beat everyone on this by months....

 

[Carol]

I Federer is not too old to win GS then Rafa is definitely a baby having more chance and he will

 

[mrzz]

You don´t need to beat this dead horse, Carol, as Nadal won a major about a month ago, making this thread question more than answered.

 

[Carol]

You don´t need to beat this dead horse, Carol, as Nadal won a major about a month ago, making this thread question more than answered.

I don't eat anything , I just can't understand the comparation of the age that most of you constantly like to do

 

[Federberg]

Since @Federberg beat me to the spoiler at match point, I won´t let him think he came first with the catchy hashtag. Let me gloat that I beat everyone on this by months....

Lol! I didn't read what you said originally at first. Well done mate!

 

[Busted]

Interesting sarcastic thread title. I think a better would have been, "When are the younger players going to grow a pair and step up?" Or maybe, "Is there anyone between 25 and 30 right now who's got the game to win a Slam?"</i> Cuz the answer is clearly "No" to both of those questions.

 

[Busted]

I know Federer is too old but look what he did today, incredible but true. Rafa 5 years YOUNGER has more probabilities to win than Roger for sure

Let's get real here - Nadal gets injured turning over in bed. If he's still playing at his current level in 2 years and winning the French Open (notice I'm not mentioning any of the other Slams) - let alone 5 years - I'm going to be shocked. In fact I'll be shocked if he makes through the end of this year without an injury. Clearly he's chasing #1 because he signed up for both Toronto and Cincinnati. He'll play the US Open - and then he scheduled to play the Laver Cup with Roger in Sept. After that he'll do the China tourneys - Beijing and Shanghai. Let's see if he skips Basel and only plays Paris going into Tour Finals - which he's never won and is a major blemish on his career stats. And then when he doesn't win it he'll resuming whining that they won't move it to "other surfaces," ie clay, so that he can win it...

 

[Busted]

Well, I re-watched it too and I have two things that jumped out at me. Yes, it was, as far as I can recall, the most I have seen him flatten out or otherwise hit driving backhands during rallies in years. I don't know but believe he may not have employed the slice as much as either a topspin or flattened backhand shot. I could be wrong.

The other thing was the manner in which he hit the backhand return. There were some slices, but they were more orchestrated unless he was simply out of position. He drove the return back more than usual on that side, and I don't recall him doing it that much since the 2003-2004 era when he would attack more all the way around--got to the net more back then.

I guess I am now thinking of a third thing, and that was his fleetness of foot, particularly when running around to hit a forehand. It seemed to me he had worked on nimble foot movements and his stamina was good. It was impressive all the way around and incredible for (although very fit) 35 year old veteran.

Fed's footwork - in the Berdych match...there were 3 occasions he ran around backhands to hit IO FHs that literally made me think it was 2005. I had recorded the match and afterwards had to rewatch it 3 times to make sure I saw what I saw. His movement was amazing in that match - and I'm really depressed that we didn't get to see more shots like that today. Glad he won...but still...he never had to produce anywhere near his best tennis to win #19 and make history as the all-time men's winner with #8.

 

[Busted]

Hi El Dude, it's nice to talk to you again as well. However, I still don't think you've caught on to my point about talent overriding age as indicated by your comments about the Big Four fading after 2017. If this is going to be the case, strictly speaking, it will only be because Federer retires. But the other three, particularly Djokovic, will be just fine. Barring injury Djokovic has a very clear path to 20 Slams.

There is no reason to think that Djokovic will not be a Slam contender for the next 5-6 years, which gives him a shot in another 25-30 majors if he stays healthy. There is no one in the younger generation that he has to worry about (as of now).

You're being sarcastic about Djokovic having a "very clear path to 20 Slams," right? Cuz...last time I checked he's got a major elbow injury and will probably be sitting out the US Open and who knows how long to heal if he has surgery. Do you see him coming back from a 6 months lay-off and rolling the field next year? Cuz I sure don't. As Berdych said when asked about more players taking 6 months breaks - not everybody is Roger. Djokovic has motivation issues as it is right now - and allegedly marital issues as well. So he has to get his head and his life together as much as he has to heal his elbow. And given how he plays the game - the wear and tear on his body - this won't be his last big injury. Added to that - when you turn 30? Stuff starts breaking down that you didn't even know you had - and I don't mean his game. Look at the drought Federer had from 31 to 35. That could happen to Djokovic as well. The game isn't going to stand still if he's out for 6 months. Borg took a "break" at 25 - came back from a hot second and never played again. That could easily be Djokovic. At most - I can see him winning another 3 Slams - but he won't get to 19, let alone 20.

Also - If you don't think Djokovic is going to have to worry about Sasha Zverev in 2 years when he already lost a Masters 1000 to him THIS YEAR then you're not paying close attention. And unlike some people I think Kyrgios will eventually get his act together. And Karen Kachanov looks to have the game to win Slams as well. So Nole will have challengers in the future and we all know - winning Slams after 30 when there are good, younger, hungry players ain't a Sunday walk in the park. Just ask Roger.

 

[Federberg]

You're being sarcastic about Djokovic having a "very clear path to 20 Slams," right? Cuz...last time I checked he's got a major elbow injury and will probably be sitting out the US Open and who knows how long to heal if he has surgery. Do you see him coming back from a 6 months lay-off and rolling the field next year? Cuz I sure don't. As Berdych said when asked about more players taking 6 months breaks - not everybody is Roger. Djokovic has motivation issues as it is right now - and allegedly marital issues as well. So he has to get his head and his life together as much as he has to heal his elbow. And given how he plays the game - the wear and tear on his body - this won't be his last big injury. Added to that - when you turn 30? Stuff starts breaking down that you didn't even know you had - and I don't mean his game. Look at the drought Federer had from 31 to 35. That could happen to Djokovic as well. The game isn't going to stand still if he's out for 6 months. Borg took a "break" at 25 - came back from a hot second and never played again. That could easily be Djokovic. At most - I can see him winning another 3 Slams - but he won't get to 19, let alone 20.

Also - If you don't think Djokovic is going to have to worry about Sasha Zverev in 2 years when he already lost a Masters 1000 to him THIS YEAR then you're not paying close attention. And unlike some people I think Kyrgios will eventually get his act together. And Karen Kachanov looks to have the game to win Slams as well. So Nole will have challengers in the future and we all know - winning Slams after 30 when there are good, younger, hungry players ain't a Sunday walk in the park. Just ask Roger.

I totally agree. And it ain't just Zverev. Thiem is coming too. And we probably shouldn't forget Kyrgios. It is not going to be easy to come back and dominate. Fedal is Fedal for a reason..

 

[mrzz]

@Busted, did you realize the time stamp on the posts you replied to? I say this because I bumped up this thread (just for the fun, as I remembered one old post of mine), and this is a pre-AO2017 thread. Even before this year I was one who thought that both guys could still win majors, but anyway it was a good question to ask, and now, in hindsight, it is obviously easy to answer...

[Edit: I checked and I was wrong. Cali created this thread about the time of the AO final, so, yes, he was being sarcastic]

 

[El Dude]

@Carol, just because Roger is winning Slams at 35 doesn't mean Rafa will be too. Different players age differently.

That said, I think Rafa has clearly proven he has more left in the tank. What both Roger and Rafa are doing is completely unexpected and almost unprecedented. I don't think anyone knows what to expect going forward.

 

[Moxie]

Let's get real here - Nadal gets injured turning over in bed. If he's still playing at his current level in 2 years and winning the French Open (notice I'm not mentioning any of the other Slams) - let alone 5 years - I'm going to be shocked. In fact I'll be shocked if he makes through the end of this year without an injury. Clearly he's chasing #1 because he signed up for both Toronto and Cincinnati. He'll play the US Open - and then he scheduled to play the Laver Cup with Roger in Sept. After that he'll do the China tourneys - Beijing and Shanghai. Let's see if he skips Basel and only plays Paris going into Tour Finals - which he's never won and is a major blemish on his career stats. And then when he doesn't win it he'll resuming whining that they won't move it to "other surfaces," ie clay, so that he can win it...

Surely you're being metaphorical about Nadal getting injured turning over in bed, but let me just point out who was the guy that got injured bathing his children. Nadal gets injured playing tennis. Not sure what Nadal's schedule is for the rest of the year, but no need to jump to over-playing and getting injured, mate, though I'll give you that neither is impossible.

 

[mrzz]

but let me just point out who was the guy that got injured bathing his children

It is way harder than you think:

https://goo.gl/images/33f6BT

 

[Moxie]

It is way harder than you think:

https://goo.gl/images/33f6BT

I suppose that could wrench your back.