AO: Stan's Victory Over Rafa- the Mental Aspect

[Luxilon Borg]

I think we need to look beyond the Nadal match to see the changing of the tide with Wawrinka. The Djokovic match told me a lot about the change in the Wawrinka mindset even before the final. Actually, last year's tussles between Stan and Nole were an indication that he was beginning to believe in himself. Mix the belief with his natural ball striking ability, aggression and improved fitness, it's a dangerous mix.

Good point..The Nole matches were indeed the building blocks, and the victory this year was a huge leap forward.

 

[Luxilon Borg]

I think Stan did well in spurts. he started great, but faced three bp's in the ninth game and Rafa dumped 3 second serves to gift them back. Then Stan upped the ante and served it out. He was bubbling close to the surface when Rafa went off injured, and you yourself would have won the 2nd set. A WTA player would have won that set.

But Stan went AWOL in the 3rd, and only pulled it together late in the 4th. I don't buy it that players automatically struggle against an injured player. Had Rafa been facing Nole or Roger, he'd have been tempted to shake hands in the second. But not all players are so tough as these guys. Stan got frightened and the match became ugly. He faced demons in that 4th set and held it together - eventually.

For this, I think he deserves the highest praise. It was uncomfortable to watch, so imagine how uncomfortable it was for him to play it...

They might not necessarily struggle, but I think everyone gets affected by it one way or the other. It takes people out of their comfort zones. Say you are a baseliner who does not initiate too much offense, rather use the opponents pace (many examples out there). Now you have to initiate something yourself. You are out of your comfort zone...you might struggle. Say you are a grinder, ditto...Maybe you are the rare breed of total offensive minded player...now your problem is to avoid the tendency to ease of the gas pedal because it just instinctively happens...The minute you think doing a little less might be enough, you struggle.

...and said struggle is nullified by the fact that your opponent is struggling even more -- at least that was the case at the AO final. Give me an injured opponent over a healthy opponent any day of the week. Yeah, I might lose focus, but for how long? An entire match? And play bad enough to lose to a barely moving opponent? Yeah, that's not going to happen. Not at that level of tennis, in a major final.

Yes, give me an injured opponent over a healthy one any day.

That being said, how many times have we seen players lose against "cramping" or hurt opponents even with big leads because they get caught up in the drama across the net.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

I think Stan did well in spurts. he started great, but faced three bp's in the ninth game and Rafa dumped 3 second serves to gift them back. Then Stan upped the ante and served it out. He was bubbling close to the surface when Rafa went off injured, and you yourself would have won the 2nd set. A WTA player would have won that set.

But Stan went AWOL in the 3rd, and only pulled it together late in the 4th. I don't buy it that players automatically struggle against an injured player. Had Rafa been facing Nole or Roger, he'd have been tempted to shake hands in the second. But not all players are so tough as these guys. Stan got frightened and the match became ugly. He faced demons in that 4th set and held it together - eventually.

For this, I think he deserves the highest praise. It was uncomfortable to watch, so imagine how uncomfortable it was for him to play it...

They might not necessarily struggle, but I think everyone gets affected by it one way or the other. It takes people out of their comfort zones. Say you are a baseliner who does not initiate too much offense, rather use the opponents pace (many examples out there). Now you have to initiate something yourself. You are out of your comfort zone...you might struggle. Say you are a grinder, ditto...Maybe you are the rare breed of total offensive minded player...now your problem is to avoid the tendency to ease of the gas pedal because it just instinctively happens...The minute you think doing a little less might be enough, you struggle.

...and said struggle is nullified by the fact that your opponent is struggling even more -- at least that was the case at the AO final. Give me an injured opponent over a healthy opponent any day of the week. Yeah, I might lose focus, but for how long? An entire match? And play bad enough to lose to a barely moving opponent? Yeah, that's not going to happen. Not at that level of tennis, in a major final.

I never said an entire match , but for a while, every single player loses focus, no matter what level. It's how they deal with it . Also, I HAVE seen players lose matches to people barely moving because they totally have lost focus. A Fognini win comes to mind, a couple years ago at RG. He was cramping all over the place, barely moving, no first serve, and he won because the other guy just did not know what to do with the situation. Montanes I think. And Fabio withdrew from the tournament after the win. It is rare,but it happens . The point is not losing to injured players anyways, it is how it affects every player one way or the other.

 

[Luxilon Borg]

I think Stan did well in spurts. he started great, but faced three bp's in the ninth game and Rafa dumped 3 second serves to gift them back. Then Stan upped the ante and served it out. He was bubbling close to the surface when Rafa went off injured, and you yourself would have won the 2nd set. A WTA player would have won that set.

But Stan went AWOL in the 3rd, and only pulled it together late in the 4th. I don't buy it that players automatically struggle against an injured player. Had Rafa been facing Nole or Roger, he'd have been tempted to shake hands in the second. But not all players are so tough as these guys. Stan got frightened and the match became ugly. He faced demons in that 4th set and held it together - eventually.

For this, I think he deserves the highest praise. It was uncomfortable to watch, so imagine how uncomfortable it was for him to play it...

They might not necessarily struggle, but I think everyone gets affected by it one way or the other. It takes people out of their comfort zones. Say you are a baseliner who does not initiate too much offense, rather use the opponents pace (many examples out there). Now you have to initiate something yourself. You are out of your comfort zone...you might struggle. Say you are a grinder, ditto...Maybe you are the rare breed of total offensive minded player...now your problem is to avoid the tendency to ease of the gas pedal because it just instinctively happens...The minute you think doing a little less might be enough, you struggle.

...and said struggle is nullified by the fact that your opponent is struggling even more -- at least that was the case at the AO final. Give me an injured opponent over a healthy opponent any day of the week. Yeah, I might lose focus, but for how long? An entire match? And play bad enough to lose to a barely moving opponent? Yeah, that's not going to happen. Not at that level of tennis, in a major final.

I never said an entire match , but for a while, every single player loses focus, no matter what level. It's how they deal with it . Also, I HAVE seen players lose matches to people barely moving because they totally have lost focus. A Fognini win comes to mind, a couple years ago at RG. He was cramping all over the place, barely moving, no first serve, and he won because the other guy just did not know what to do with the situation. Montanes I think. And Fabio withdrew from the tournament after the win. It is rare,but it happens . The point is not losing to injured players anyways, it is how it affects every player one way or the other.

Lendl Chang!!!!!! That may never be topped.

 

[brokenshoelace]

I think Stan did well in spurts. he started great, but faced three bp's in the ninth game and Rafa dumped 3 second serves to gift them back. Then Stan upped the ante and served it out. He was bubbling close to the surface when Rafa went off injured, and you yourself would have won the 2nd set. A WTA player would have won that set.

But Stan went AWOL in the 3rd, and only pulled it together late in the 4th. I don't buy it that players automatically struggle against an injured player. Had Rafa been facing Nole or Roger, he'd have been tempted to shake hands in the second. But not all players are so tough as these guys. Stan got frightened and the match became ugly. He faced demons in that 4th set and held it together - eventually.

For this, I think he deserves the highest praise. It was uncomfortable to watch, so imagine how uncomfortable it was for him to play it...

They might not necessarily struggle, but I think everyone gets affected by it one way or the other. It takes people out of their comfort zones. Say you are a baseliner who does not initiate too much offense, rather use the opponents pace (many examples out there). Now you have to initiate something yourself. You are out of your comfort zone...you might struggle. Say you are a grinder, ditto...Maybe you are the rare breed of total offensive minded player...now your problem is to avoid the tendency to ease of the gas pedal because it just instinctively happens...The minute you think doing a little less might be enough, you struggle.

...and said struggle is nullified by the fact that your opponent is struggling even more -- at least that was the case at the AO final. Give me an injured opponent over a healthy opponent any day of the week. Yeah, I might lose focus, but for how long? An entire match? And play bad enough to lose to a barely moving opponent? Yeah, that's not going to happen. Not at that level of tennis, in a major final.

I never said an entire match , but for a while, every single player loses focus, no matter what level. It's how they deal with it . Also, I HAVE seen players lose matches to people barely moving because they totally have lost focus. A Fognini win comes to mind, a couple years ago at RG. He was cramping all over the place, barely moving, no first serve, and he won because the other guy just did not know what to do with the situation. Montanes I think. And Fabio withdrew from the tournament after the win. It is rare,but it happens . The point is not losing to injured players anyways, it is how it affects every player one way or the other.

As I said, not at a level of a major final. If you're playing well enough to reach a major final, you're not losing to a barely functioning opponent. Unless of course, we're talking about cramping or minor injuries (cramping is a common one, where the player cramping actually wins). But Wawrinka-Nadal was obviously more severe than that, so there's no point in drawing parallels to cramping or any injury that isn't too hampering.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

BS, as I was saying above, I am not even talking about losing to an injured player. All I am saying is, everyone loses focus for a period of time when dealing with an injured player, cramping or more serious because you just cannot tell the difference between a pulled muscle, a muscle spasm or a cramp from the other side of the court. That's all. I agree it would be extremely unlikely for a top player to lose to an injured player. My point is losing focus , that's all. Wawrinka-Nadal is a great example.