AO: Stan's Victory Over Rafa- the Mental Aspect

[Luxilon Borg]

So we have a long and interesting thread based on a article posted by GSM concerning the strategic nature of Stanimal's victory over Nadal, a player he never even won a set from.

Well, all heated debates aside about injury, what Fed can learn, etc etc..

How about how impressive Stan was mentally in NOT being intimidated, as he clearly has been in the past. He also walked a very fine line between being distracted by a wounded opponent and keeping his eye on the prize, as things got dicey in the third set and even midway in the 4th, but he stuck to his guns and finished the job.

I was especially happy to see how he STUCK UP for himself during the injury time outs and took control of the situation, not allowing Rafa to have free reign in getting treatments and steam rolling the officials. I ALSO like the fact he demanded to know the nature of the injury.

All in all he behaved like a winner, with a sense of entitlement, and controlling the situation.

Thoughts?

 

[TsarMatt]

His performance, from a mental viewpoint, was pretty great. The thing is, when Stan is the underdog and has nothing to lose, he plays this aggressive, risky, but mostly rewarding style of tennis (i.e., vs. Djokovic and Nadal this year). When he is expected to win, he hides in his shell and plays very conservative (i.e., vs. Berdych). Take the AO final, even - once everyone could see Nadal was pretty hindered with injury, things shifted and Stan became the favourite to close the match out. As soon as that was 'solidified', if you will, he let Nadal back in the match and things were becoming pretty worrisome. I mean, he went from GOAT to mug in under half an hour.

I liked how Stan really blasted the umpire when Nadal took an ITO. It was immensely advantageous. Not because he was completely entitled to do so, but he really seemed to get the audience aware of the situation. Everyone in the crowd could see Stan getting very angry that Nadal took a timeout right where Stan's confidence was going through the roof and he was GOATing. As a result, the crowd, too, got annoyed and then uncharacteristically booed Nadal. I think this damaged Rafa, if only for a short time, and made him lose a lot focus which proved imperaitve in the contexts of the match as it gave Stan a 2-0 set lead.

All in all, yeah, it was a good mental performance from Stan, especially considering he lost all twelve o their previous meetings and never even managed to take a set off the man.

 

[brokenshoelace]

I think this damaged Rafa, if only for a short time, and made him lose a lot focus which proved imperaitve in the contexts of the match as it gave Stan a 2-0 set lead.

I seriously doubt Nadal lost that set because he "lost focus." It was more like he "lost mobility."

In any case, I agree with the rest. Stan was all business. Handled it very well from start to finish, with the exception of that third set disaster.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Take the AO final, even - once everyone could see Nadal was pretty hindered with injury, things shifted and Stan became the favourite to close the match out. As soon as that was 'solidified', if you will, he let Nadal back in the match and things were becoming pretty worrisome. I mean, he went from GOAT to mug in under half an hour.

Contrary to what you think, it is not because Stan could not deliver when he was
running in the front It is because it is psychologically hard to play against an injured
opponent. I have said it many times and I need to repeat it again.

For example, Stan has thrashed Andy 6-4, 6-3, 6-2 in just last years USO QF.
Now, one may say Andy had back issues at USO. But, it did not affect Stan's play
as it was not a visible drama on court which distracts the opponent. Finally, I
must also mention that Stan has beaten Andy several times and he was not
expected to beat him in almost all of these wins against Andy.

p.s. In fact, one fan even shouted during the match, "OK. Stan, No Mercy".

 

[Luxilon Borg]

His performance, from a mental viewpoint, was pretty great. The thing is, when Stan is the underdog and has nothing to lose, he plays this aggressive, risky, but mostly rewarding style of tennis (i.e., vs. Djokovic and Nadal this year). When he is expected to win, he hides in his shell and plays very conservative (i.e., vs. Berdych). Take the AO final, even - once everyone could see Nadal was pretty hindered with injury, things shifted and Stan became the favourite to close the match out. As soon as that was 'solidified', if you will, he let Nadal back in the match and things were becoming pretty worrisome. I mean, he went from GOAT to mug in under half an hour.

I liked how Stan really blasted the umpire when Nadal took an ITO. It was immensely advantageous. Not because he was completely entitled to do so, but he really seemed to get the audience aware of the situation. Everyone in the crowd could see Stan getting very angry that Nadal took a timeout right where Stan's confidence was going through the roof and he was GOATing. As a result, the crowd, too, got annoyed and then uncharacteristically booed Nadal. I think this damaged Rafa, if only for a short time, and made him lose a lot focus which proved imperaitve in the contexts of the match as it gave Stan a 2-0 set lead.

All in all, yeah, it was a good mental performance from Stan, especially considering he lost all twelve o their previous meetings and never even managed to take a set off the man.

I agree with your post. But I don't think Rafa was damaged by the crowds displeasure. The guy is steel. I think he was surprised...but not damaged.

 

[Luxilon Borg]

Take the AO final, even - once everyone could see Nadal was pretty hindered with injury, things shifted and Stan became the favourite to close the match out. As soon as that was 'solidified', if you will, he let Nadal back in the match and things were becoming pretty worrisome. I mean, he went from GOAT to mug in under half an hour.

Contrary to what you think, it is not because Stan could not deliver when he was
running in the front It is because it is psychologically hard to play against an injured
opponent. I have said it many times and I need to repeat it again.

For example, Stan has thrashed Andy 6-4, 6-3, 6-2 in just last years USO QF.
Now, one may say Andy had back issues at USO. But, it did not affect Stan's play
as it was not a visible drama on court which distracts the opponent. Finally, I
must also mention that Stan has beaten Andy several times and he was not
expected to beat him in almost all of these wins against Andy.

p.s. In fact, one fan even shouted during the match, "OK. Stan, No Mercy".

Yes, it can be difficult to play an injured opponent. But the very best try to mind their side of the court..Mac, Connors, Fed..but it is not easy. They may try to change a game plan to try to exploit the injury etc, and it may back fire.

BTW, I think he was referring to the fact that Stan at times when he was expected to win would have let downs, but he was not expected to win, would let it fly.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

I was especially happy to see how he STUCK UP for himself during the injury time outs and took control of the situation, not allowing Rafa to have free reign in getting treatments and steam rolling the officials. I ALSO like the fact he demanded to know the nature of the injury.

According to the rules the referee is not obligated to inform Stan on the specifics
of Rafa's injury and/or reason for MTO.

 

[Luxilon Borg]

I was especially happy to see how he STUCK UP for himself during the injury time outs and took control of the situation, not allowing Rafa to have free reign in getting treatments and steam rolling the officials. I ALSO like the fact he demanded to know the nature of the injury.

According to the rules the referee is not obligated to inform Stan on the specifics
of Rafa's injury and/or reason for MTO.

Yes, I know..but he tried to pretend that there was such a rule..LOL..gotta give him credit...:clap

 

[TsarMatt]

His performance, from a mental viewpoint, was pretty great. The thing is, when Stan is the underdog and has nothing to lose, he plays this aggressive, risky, but mostly rewarding style of tennis (i.e., vs. Djokovic and Nadal this year). When he is expected to win, he hides in his shell and plays very conservative (i.e., vs. Berdych). Take the AO final, even - once everyone could see Nadal was pretty hindered with injury, things shifted and Stan became the favourite to close the match out. As soon as that was 'solidified', if you will, he let Nadal back in the match and things were becoming pretty worrisome. I mean, he went from GOAT to mug in under half an hour.

I liked how Stan really blasted the umpire when Nadal took an ITO. It was immensely advantageous. Not because he was completely entitled to do so, but he really seemed to get the audience aware of the situation. Everyone in the crowd could see Stan getting very angry that Nadal took a timeout right where Stan's confidence was going through the roof and he was GOATing. As a result, the crowd, too, got annoyed and then uncharacteristically booed Nadal. I think this damaged Rafa, if only for a short time, and made him lose a lot focus which proved imperaitve in the contexts of the match as it gave Stan a 2-0 set lead.

All in all, yeah, it was a good mental performance from Stan, especially considering he lost all twelve o their previous meetings and never even managed to take a set off the man.

I agree with your post. But I don't think Rafa was damaged by the crowds displeasure. The guy is steel. I think he was surprised...but not damaged.

Yeah, surprised is a more applicable term.

 

[Luxilon Borg]

His performance, from a mental viewpoint, was pretty great. The thing is, when Stan is the underdog and has nothing to lose, he plays this aggressive, risky, but mostly rewarding style of tennis (i.e., vs. Djokovic and Nadal this year). When he is expected to win, he hides in his shell and plays very conservative (i.e., vs. Berdych). Take the AO final, even - once everyone could see Nadal was pretty hindered with injury, things shifted and Stan became the favourite to close the match out. As soon as that was 'solidified', if you will, he let Nadal back in the match and things were becoming pretty worrisome. I mean, he went from GOAT to mug in under half an hour.

I liked how Stan really blasted the umpire when Nadal took an ITO. It was immensely advantageous. Not because he was completely entitled to do so, but he really seemed to get the audience aware of the situation. Everyone in the crowd could see Stan getting very angry that Nadal took a timeout right where Stan's confidence was going through the roof and he was GOATing. As a result, the crowd, too, got annoyed and then uncharacteristically booed Nadal. I think this damaged Rafa, if only for a short time, and made him lose a lot focus which proved imperaitve in the contexts of the match as it gave Stan a 2-0 set lead.

All in all, yeah, it was a good mental performance from Stan, especially considering he lost all twelve o their previous meetings and never even managed to take a set off the man.

I agree with your post. But I don't think Rafa was damaged by the crowds displeasure. The guy is steel. I think he was surprised...but not damaged.

Yeah, surprised is a more applicable term.

Nadal is programmed to do what ever is needed to give him a chance to win, regardless of any physical issues. If it means a few boos from the crowd for an ITO then so be it.

 

[the AntiPusher]

His performance, from a mental viewpoint, was pretty great. The thing is, when Stan is the underdog and has nothing to lose, he plays this aggressive, risky, but mostly rewarding style of tennis (i.e., vs. Djokovic and Nadal this year). When he is expected to win, he hides in his shell and plays very conservative (i.e., vs. Berdych). Take the AO final, even - once everyone could see Nadal was pretty hindered with injury, things shifted and Stan became the favourite to close the match out. As soon as that was 'solidified', if you will, he let Nadal back in the match and things were becoming pretty worrisome. I mean, he went from GOAT to mug in under half an hour.

I liked how Stan really blasted the umpire when Nadal took an ITO. It was immensely advantageous. Not because he was completely entitled to do so, but he really seemed to get the audience aware of the situation. Everyone in the crowd could see Stan getting very angry that Nadal took a timeout right where Stan's confidence was going through the roof and he was GOATing. As a result, the crowd, too, got annoyed and then uncharacteristically booed Nadal. I think this damaged Rafa, if only for a short time, and madexe him lose a lot focus which proved imperaitve in the contexts of the match as it gave Stan a 2-0 set lead.

All in all, yeah, it was a good mental performance from Stan, especially considering he lost all twelve o their previous meetings and never even managed to take a set off the man.

I agree with your post. But I don't think Rafa was damaged by the crowds displeasure. The guy is steel. I think he was surprised...but not damaged.

Yeah, surprised is a more applicable term.

Nadal is programmed to do what ever is needed to give him a chance to win, regardless of any physical issues. If it means a few boos from the crowd for an ITO then so be it.

Agreed, look how Rafa deals with the phoney fickle French fans at RG ,he is a mentality focused beast, Stan played well and caught Rafa on a day when his mobilty was compromised, no big deal , move on to the next time they meet, just like Roger, Robin S, Djoker and the others , Rafa will come back looking for their blood. However, I don't want any parts of facing Darcus again, that dude is scary:devil, LOL

 

[Luxilon Borg]

His performance, from a mental viewpoint, was pretty great. The thing is, when Stan is the underdog and has nothing to lose, he plays this aggressive, risky, but mostly rewarding style of tennis (i.e., vs. Djokovic and Nadal this year). When he is expected to win, he hides in his shell and plays very conservative (i.e., vs. Berdych). Take the AO final, even - once everyone could see Nadal was pretty hindered with injury, things shifted and Stan became the favourite to close the match out. As soon as that was 'solidified', if you will, he let Nadal back in the match and things were becoming pretty worrisome. I mean, he went from GOAT to mug in under half an hour.

I liked how Stan really blasted the umpire when Nadal took an ITO. It was immensely advantageous. Not because he was completely entitled to do so, but he really seemed to get the audience aware of the situation. Everyone in the crowd could see Stan getting very angry that Nadal took a timeout right where Stan's confidence was going through the roof and he was GOATing. As a result, the crowd, too, got annoyed and then uncharacteristically booed Nadal. I think this damaged Rafa, if only for a short time, and madexe him lose a lot focus which proved imperaitve in the contexts of the match as it gave Stan a 2-0 set lead.

All in all, yeah, it was a good mental performance from Stan, especially considering he lost all twelve o their previous meetings and never even managed to take a set off the man.

I agree with your post. But I don't think Rafa was damaged by the crowds displeasure. The guy is steel. I think he was surprised...but not damaged.

Yeah, surprised is a more applicable term.

Nadal is programmed to do what ever is needed to give him a chance to win, regardless of any physical issues. If it means a few boos from the crowd for an ITO then so be it.

Agreed, look how Rafa deals with the phoney fickle French fans at RG ,he is a mentality focused beast, Stan played well and caught Rafa on a day when his mobilty was compromised, no big deal , move on to the next time they meet, just like Roger, Robin S, Djoker and the others , Rafa will come back looking for their blood. However, I don't want any parts of facing Darcus again, that dude is scary:devil, LOL

Well said..Nadal is one of the fiercest guys when it comes to getting revenge..merciless..He RARELY loses twice to the same guy in a row these days. Reminds me of a few other guys from the past in this regard.

Yeh, a RG, he is RARELY the crowd favorite. He endured overwhelming support for Roger in every match they played there.

Darcis, to the best of my knowledgeable, has not played a match since that win!!! Shows you what it takes to slay the dragon.

 

[Kieran]

I think Stan did well in spurts. he started great, but faced three bp's in the ninth game and Rafa dumped 3 second serves to gift them back. Then Stan upped the ante and served it out. He was bubbling close to the surface when Rafa went off injured, and you yourself would have won the 2nd set. A WTA player would have won that set.

But Stan went AWOL in the 3rd, and only pulled it together late in the 4th. I don't buy it that players automatically struggle against an injured player. Had Rafa been facing Nole or Roger, he'd have been tempted to shake hands in the second. But not all players are so tough as these guys. Stan got frightened and the match became ugly. He faced demons in that 4th set and held it together - eventually.

For this, I think he deserves the highest praise. It was uncomfortable to watch, so imagine how uncomfortable it was for him to play it...

 

[Luxilon Borg]

I think Stan did well in spurts. he started great, but faced three bp's in the ninth game and Rafa dumped 3 second serves to gift them back. Then Stan upped the ante and served it out. He was bubbling close to the surface when Rafa went off injured, and you yourself would have won the 2nd set. A WTA player would have won that set.

But Stan went AWOL in the 3rd, and only pulled it together late in the 4th. I don't buy it that players automatically struggle against an injured player. Had Rafa been facing Nole or Roger, he'd have been tempted to shake hands in the second. But not all players are so tough as these guys. Stan got frightened and the match became ugly. He faced demons in that 4th set and held it together - eventually.

For this, I think he deserves the highest praise. It was uncomfortable to watch, so imagine how uncomfortable it was for him to play it...

Interesting observations, and I agree with just about all. Although I don't think In a major final Rafa would shake hands with anyone before the last point was played.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

I think Stan did well in spurts. he started great, but faced three bp's in the ninth game and Rafa dumped 3 second serves to gift them back. Then Stan upped the ante and served it out. He was bubbling close to the surface when Rafa went off injured, and you yourself would have won the 2nd set. A WTA player would have won that set.

But Stan went AWOL in the 3rd, and only pulled it together late in the 4th. I don't buy it that players automatically struggle against an injured player. Had Rafa been facing Nole or Roger, he'd have been tempted to shake hands in the second. But not all players are so tough as these guys. Stan got frightened and the match became ugly. He faced demons in that 4th set and held it together - eventually.

For this, I think he deserves the highest praise. It was uncomfortable to watch, so imagine how uncomfortable it was for him to play it...

They might not necessarily struggle, but I think everyone gets affected by it one way or the other. It takes people out of their comfort zones. Say you are a baseliner who does not initiate too much offense, rather use the opponents pace (many examples out there). Now you have to initiate something yourself. You are out of your comfort zone...you might struggle. Say you are a grinder, ditto...Maybe you are the rare breed of total offensive minded player...now your problem is to avoid the tendency to ease of the gas pedal because it just instinctively happens...The minute you think doing a little less might be enough, you struggle.

 

[Luxilon Borg]

I think Stan did well in spurts. he started great, but faced three bp's in the ninth game and Rafa dumped 3 second serves to gift them back. Then Stan upped the ante and served it out. He was bubbling close to the surface when Rafa went off injured, and you yourself would have won the 2nd set. A WTA player would have won that set.

But Stan went AWOL in the 3rd, and only pulled it together late in the 4th. I don't buy it that players automatically struggle against an injured player. Had Rafa been facing Nole or Roger, he'd have been tempted to shake hands in the second. But not all players are so tough as these guys. Stan got frightened and the match became ugly. He faced demons in that 4th set and held it together - eventually.

For this, I think he deserves the highest praise. It was uncomfortable to watch, so imagine how uncomfortable it was for him to play it...

They might not necessarily struggle, but I think everyone gets affected by it one way or the other. It takes people out of their comfort zones. Say you are a baseliner who does not initiate too much offense, rather use the opponents pace (many examples out there). Now you have to initiate something yourself. You are out of your comfort zone...you might struggle. Say you are a grinder, ditto...Maybe you are the rare breed of total offensive minded player...now your problem is to avoid the tendency to ease of the gas pedal because it just instinctively happens...The minute you think doing a little less might be enough, you struggle.

Yes, any time you make adjustments from the normal way you play there can be issues. Elite players are like supremely calibrated watches, a virtual wrench in the machine and it can have a larger than anticipated effect.

 

[brokenshoelace]

I think Stan did well in spurts. he started great, but faced three bp's in the ninth game and Rafa dumped 3 second serves to gift them back. Then Stan upped the ante and served it out. He was bubbling close to the surface when Rafa went off injured, and you yourself would have won the 2nd set. A WTA player would have won that set.

But Stan went AWOL in the 3rd, and only pulled it together late in the 4th. I don't buy it that players automatically struggle against an injured player. Had Rafa been facing Nole or Roger, he'd have been tempted to shake hands in the second. But not all players are so tough as these guys. Stan got frightened and the match became ugly. He faced demons in that 4th set and held it together - eventually.

For this, I think he deserves the highest praise. It was uncomfortable to watch, so imagine how uncomfortable it was for him to play it...

They might not necessarily struggle, but I think everyone gets affected by it one way or the other. It takes people out of their comfort zones. Say you are a baseliner who does not initiate too much offense, rather use the opponents pace (many examples out there). Now you have to initiate something yourself. You are out of your comfort zone...you might struggle. Say you are a grinder, ditto...Maybe you are the rare breed of total offensive minded player...now your problem is to avoid the tendency to ease of the gas pedal because it just instinctively happens...The minute you think doing a little less might be enough, you struggle.

...and said struggle is nullified by the fact that your opponent is struggling even more -- at least that was the case at the AO final. Give me an injured opponent over a healthy opponent any day of the week. Yeah, I might lose focus, but for how long? An entire match? And play bad enough to lose to a barely moving opponent? Yeah, that's not going to happen. Not at that level of tennis, in a major final.

 

[sid]

I think Stan can beat anyone on his best days,but as said he does play risky tennis,when that backhand is on fire it's wow tennis.

 

[Kieran]

...and said struggle is nullified by the fact that your opponent is struggling even more -- at least that was the case at the AO final. Give me an injured opponent over a healthy opponent any day of the week. Yeah, I might lose focus, but for how long? An entire match? And play bad enough to lose to a barely moving opponent? Yeah, that's not going to happen. Not at that level of tennis, in a major final.

Exactly. Nadal didn't even contest most shots on his backhand side. It was automatic to serve there on the deuce court and take the point. We can't criticise Stan because he eventually pulled it together to get the W, and it's a huge moment for his career, but we shouldn't be overly eulogizing a set of good play, either, especially the mental side, when all the tougher tests were still ahead of him in that match...

 

[britbox]

I think we need to look beyond the Nadal match to see the changing of the tide with Wawrinka. The Djokovic match told me a lot about the change in the Wawrinka mindset even before the final. Actually, last year's tussles between Stan and Nole were an indication that he was beginning to believe in himself. Mix the belief with his natural ball striking ability, aggression and improved fitness, it's a dangerous mix.