Another Look at Most Dominant Player

El Dude

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I think you are missing the point of the article. One needs to calculate the points per GS considering only the GSs in the streak. The length of the streak tells how long you were dominating and the points per GS during the streak tells as to how strongly you were dominating when you were dominating.

I think you calculated the above points per GS by taking all the GSs in which the player participated instead of confining to the streak.

No, I understand, but the article does both. I updated the one called "Career ATP Points Per Slam." The next one, which you are referring to, is for the longest streak in which a player didn't miss more than one final in a row. None of the Big Three have had longer streaks since the article in early 2014, so there's no need to update.
 
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GameSetAndMath

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No, I understand, but the article does both. I updated the one called "Career ATP Points Per Slam." The next one, which you are referring to, is for the longest streak in which a player didn't miss more than one final in a row. None of the Big Three have had longer streaks since the article in early 2014, so there's no need to update.

No, You don't.

Djokovic now has a streak that is 25 long starting from 2010 USO to 2016 USO. That is clearly longer than Fed's streak of 19 slams.

However, Novak's points per slam during his streak is 1397.2 whereas Fed's points per slam during his streak of 19 slams (from 2005 Wimbledon to 2010 AO) is 1680.

So, the conclusion is that Novak definitely dominated the tour for a longer period (25 slams) than Federer (19 slams).

However, Fed was more dominant (during his streak of 19 slams) than Novak (during his streak of 25 slams).

Now, we need to find out whether there exists a subsequence of these 25 slams (corresponding to the streak of Novak) of length 19 or more such that when restricted to that subsequence, Novak's points per slam is 1680 or higher. If there exists such a subsequence, then clearly the award of MDP goes to Novak.

I will check it later.

p.s. However, if one does not use the OP's definition strictly and consider Roger's streak to have started from 2003 Wimbledon, his streak would be 27 slams which would be longer than Novak's streak. Moreover, Roger's per slam points during this 27 slam streak would be 1541.85 points per slam and that is larger than Novak's 1397.2 significantly. Hence, on second thoughts I would not give the MDP award to Novak. I would give it to Roger, but the runner up goes to Novak.

p.s.2. Rafa's streak is of length 14 (from FO 10 to FO 14 - he skipped three slams during his streak) and his points per slam during the streak (not counting the missed slams) is 1416.78. It is very clear that among the Big Three Rafa is the least dominant player.
 
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El Dude

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I do understand, I just miscounted Novak's streak. I thought he missed a final during that span, but he didn't. That isn't misunderstanding the point of the article or of the streaks. The article has several statistical measures, not just the one you're focused on.
 
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GameSetAndMath

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I do understand, I just miscounted Novak's streak. I thought he missed a final during that span, but he didn't. That isn't misunderstanding the point of the article or of the streaks. The article has several statistical measures, not just the one you're focused on.

Thanks for recalculating the stats.

Yes, the article has several statistical measures. But, the reason why the author even mentions them is to demonstrate as to why they are not meaningful. The author is advocating the length and strength of the streak as the important measures of determining the greatness of a player.
 

Moxie

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I do understand, I just miscounted Novak's streak. I thought he missed a final during that span, but he didn't. That isn't misunderstanding the point of the article or of the streaks. The article has several statistical measures, not just the one you're focused on.
I actually thought the same as you...that the streaks part didn't change. But it is also rather an afterthought in the article. Is it really that interesting, given that it's only a "consistency" issue?
 

Moxie

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Thanks for recalculating the stats.

Yes, the article has several statistical measures. But, the reason why the author even mentions them is to demonstrate as to why they are not meaningful. The author is advocating the length and strength of the streak as the important measures of determining the greatness of a player.
I guess you're not buying my argument that "consistency" is not the same as "dominance" in this era. You're willing to look at a string of finishes, even if they don't result in wins.
 

GameSetAndMath

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I guess you're not buying my argument that "consistency" is not the same as "dominance" in this era. You're willing to look at a string of finishes, even if they don't result in wins.

This is not about consistency. This is indeed about dominance. If you only want wins, we don't even have any streak even of length 7 by any player. Since we are also measuring the strength of dominance, it ensures that the player did not really suck big time in those spots where he did not win.

This is a natural definition of dominance. There is absolutely nothing artificial or favoring one player over other about it.
 

Moxie

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This is not about consistency. This is indeed about dominance. If you only want wins, we don't even have any streak even of length 7 by any player. Since we are also measuring the strength of dominance, it ensures that the player did not really suck big time in those spots where he did not win.

This is a natural definition of dominance. There is absolutely nothing artificial or favoring one player over other about it.
I get that it's about performance v. the field. I also get that it's one thing if you suck, and it's another if you're absent due to injury. Having had fewer injury absences, Novak and Roger will have performed better, in streaks, against the field. Roger surely does best, overall. Novak did more poorly in his early years, and had a good run in the middle, before his walkabout/break. We all know that Nadal is the one with the more up-and-down career, due to time lost to injury. But this has also been bracketed by strong come-backs. My point is that, in this particular era, I don't think that this formula tells the whole story. You're talking about streaks at top events, but look at the fact that Nadal has the most MS1000s, and that he has more Majors than Djokovic. He also has a great h2h v. most of the players he's faced. To put a straight-line above a checkerboard seems rather random, to me, if the results are superior. If it were only that Nadal sank via poor performance, it would be one thing. But if he doesn't factor as well because of injury lay-offs, I think it's another.
 

GameSetAndMath

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I get that it's about performance v. the field. I also get that it's one thing if you suck, and it's another if you're absent due to injury. Having had fewer injury absences, Novak and Roger will have performed better, in streaks, against the field. Roger surely does best, overall. Novak did more poorly in his early years, and had a good run in the middle, before his walkabout/break. We all know that Nadal is the one with the more up-and-down career, due to time lost to injury. But this has also been bracketed by strong come-backs. My point is that, in this particular era, I don't think that this formula tells the whole story. You're talking about streaks at top events, but look at the fact that Nadal has the most MS1000s, and that he has more Majors than Djokovic. He also has a great h2h v. most of the players he's faced. To put a straight-line above a checkerboard seems rather random, to me, if the results are superior. If it were only that Nadal sank via poor performance, it would be one thing. But if he doesn't factor as well because of injury lay-offs, I think it's another.

If in the middle of a streak, a player misses a slam due to injury the streak is not considered to be broken. In face, a player is allowed to miss any number of slams due to injury without the streak being considered as broken. The measure was formulated considering everything in mind.

Sorry can't hide behind injuries.
 

Moxie

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If in the middle of a streak, a player misses a slam due to injury the streak is not considered to be broken. In face, a player is allowed to miss any number of slams due to injury without the streak being considered as broken. The measure was formulated considering everything in mind.

Sorry can't hide behind injuries.
Sorry, but when is that explained? Not in the original article. Because, if that's the case, Rafa's streak is pretty good.
 
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El Dude

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If that's how they're calculating it, then Rafa's longest streak is actually 15 Slams: French Open 2010 to French Open 2014. He missed two Slams in there, not three.
 

Moxie

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If that's how they're calculating it, then Rafa's longest streak is actually 15 Slams: French Open 2010 to French Open 2014. He missed two Slams in there, not three.
What was the measurement...finals and SF? Or just Slams played?
 

El Dude

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What was the measurement...finals and SF? Or just Slams played?

Game's talking about the last part of the article, which is consecutive Slams played in which the player doesn't miss more than one Slam final in a row.
 
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GameSetAndMath

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If that's how they're calculating it, then Rafa's longest streak is actually 15 Slams: French Open 2010 to French Open 2014. He missed two Slams in there, not three.

He skipped 12&14 USO and 13 AO.
 

GameSetAndMath

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Sorry, but when is that explained? Not in the original article. Because, if that's the case, Rafa's streak is pretty good.

May be you should have some greater attention span and bother reading the OP actually for a change, instead of simply trying to defend your guy without any grasp of what is going on.
 

Moxie

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May be you should have some greater attention span and bother reading the OP actually for a change, instead of simply trying to defend your guy without any grasp of what is going on.
Sorry, but if you're going to go for fairly esoteric stats, it seems fair if we get a bit lost, especially as it took going back to the OP to figure out what we were talking about. Even El Dude got a bit lost. I think it's OK to ask for clarification.
 

GameSetAndMath

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Sorry, but if you're going to go for fairly esoteric stats, it seems fair if we get a bit lost, especially as it took going back to the OP to figure out what we were talking about. Even El Dude got a bit lost. I think it's OK to ask for clarification.

A streak is a sequence of slams in which it is not the case that a player did not make it to the finals in two consecutive slams (in which the player actually participated).

In other words, if you win or is a finalist in one slam, you are given a pass in the next one (you are allowed to goof off and not reach the finals). But, if the same thing happens again the streak is broken.

This is a very reasonable way of dealing with the situation considering we have three great players. If you insist that a player must reach the finals in each slam, that is asking for too much. Considering only two of the three players can reach the finals, it is a nice idea to give a pass in the next one after you reach the finals in one GS.
 

Moxie

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Not sure this was clear in the OP, or that it is now., but I'll give it a long dive later. Hasta mañana!
 

GameSetAndMath

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Game's talking about the last part of the article, which is consecutive Slams played in which the player doesn't miss more than one Slam final in a row.

It is the important part of the article, being the conclusion that in authors opinion this stat is the best to figure out who is the greatest player.
 
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