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Moxie

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No, don't jinx him MM. I luv D, but he is not ready mentally. Still a bit green in the head. Like some of his South American brethren he needs to see a shrink.
Personally, I thought the top half of the draw, Zverev's, which includes Cerundolo, was the tougher half, even before Alcaraz withdrew. I'm happy to root for Francisco, though.
 

mrzz

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I dunno, I just think in today’s game, there are more chances that a HC flash in the pan would win the AO or the USO; on any given fortnight I could envision far more HC players peaking. My reading is there is a larger pool of opportunities for a HC “specialist”.

Red Clay specialists perse who can win the FO? TBH I think that pool has shrunk. Red Clay is not quite as slow relative with the added firepower these days, and it was Rafa’s unique topspin that gave him that exceptional edge, personally none of the traditional clay counters stand out to me.
But maybe that's the whole point. On clay, nowadays, nobody stands out, so everyone has a shot.
 
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MargaretMcAleer

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I would just like to remind everyone, I did pick Foki as my dark horse in MC and he did get to the SFs so there lol!
 
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Moxie

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But maybe that's the whole point. On clay, nobody stands out, so everyone has a shot.
But is it true that no one stands out? I actually thought we saw a lot of good clay courters in the South American swing. Clay requires great footwork, and it's grueling, for the men, in best of 5. I still think the best players will last longer, meaning I think that the good clay courters could at least spoil for the men who are much better on HCs.

I still take @Jelenafan's point that there are so many HC players now that it seems more ripe for different winners at the AO and the USO, in a way. When Novak quits, who knows how the Majors might shake out? Wimbledon could end up being the one with the most one-timers for a while.
 

mrzz

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But is it true that no one stands out? I actually thought we saw a lot of good clay courters in the South American swing. Clay requires great footwork, and it's grueling, for the men, in best of 5. I still think the best players will last longer, meaning I think that the good clay courters could at least spoil for the men who are much better on HCs.

I still take @Jelenafan's point that there are so many HC players now that it seems more ripe for different winners at the AO and the USO, in a way. When Novak quits, who knows how the Majors might shake out? Wimbledon could end up being the one with the most one-timers for a while.
I was trying to summarize @El Dude 's point, wrote in a hurry and was far from being clear. What I meant was: "if nobody stands out, than everyone has a shot".

Apart from Alcaraz, as we discussed before, I am really not sure if we can say that someone else stands out. I get your point, but if someone would tell me "name a guy who you are pretty sure that will reach R4 in Roland Garros" I would not be able to answer.
 
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El Dude

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I was trying to summarize @El Dude 's point, wrote in a hurry and was far from being clear. What I meant was: "if nobody stands out, than everyone has a shot".

Apart from Alcaraz, as we discussed before, I am really not sure if we can say that someone else stands out. I get your point, but if someone would tell me "name a guy who you are pretty sure that will reach R4 in Roland Garros" I would not be able to answer.
Yes, this is well said, though I would say that one name comes to mind: Casper Ruud, whose last three RG results are F, F, SF. I don't think he could beat a healthy Alcaraz or Sinner in a Slam final, but I'm pretty sure he'll reach at least the 4th round.

But yeah, I think you're getting my larger point, which is that RG is more up for grabs than it has been in two decades and we have a good chance of seeing some surprises.

When considering clay greatness, we have to sort of forget Rafa. The only player who came vaguely close to his clay/RG dominance was Borg, albeit in a very different era and even he "only" won 85.7% of clay matches (vs. Rafa's 90.5%). According to Elo, Borg's peak was about as good as Rafa's on clay - but again, we're talking 331 matches vs. 541 for Rafa.

Below those guys you have "garden variety" ATG clay players like Lendl, Djokovic, Vilas, Wilander, etc. I think this is the level we can potentially hope to see from Alcaraz (or possibly Someone Else, if he's as good on clay as we hope he'll be). Meaning, guys who win multiple Roland Garros titles, and a handful of clay Masters, and double-digit titles on clay.

The next tier would be guys like Roger on clay, Nastase, Muster, etc: what we could call lesser great clay players. I think Tsitsipas, Zverev (or Thiem) could have been on this level, but for various reasons never got there. This might also be the level we can hope to see from Sinner.

As you say, Alcaraz is the only guy who figures to be a truly great clay player. I think Sinner could get there - or at least be good enough to win a RG or two. Really, we haven't seen peak Sinner on clay yet. He had that dip last year that encapsulated clay season and he's get to get past a SF at any clay big title. The next candidate is Fonzie, but that's jumping the gun. I don't see clay greatness from anyone else. Yet.

Ruud is a really good player and a top 5 clay player, but let's face it - he's 0-6 in big title finals and is really the kind of player that will only win a big title by default; that is, if none of the very best players are there and/or playing well. He's kind of a micro-Ferrer.

When I look at the current field, I see a bunch of guys who I could see surprising and winning Roland Garros. I think Alcaraz, Sinner, and Djokovic are still the top three favorites--and probably in that order--but all with big question marks for this year. Zverev and Tsitsipas are next on paper, but they are both head-cases. The next group gets interesting, because you have a bunch of guys who could surprise and sneak it out: Berrettini, Rune, Musetti, Ruud. Who knows, maybe even someone like Cerundolo. The draw would really have to open up for him, though, as I think all those mentioned above--plus a few others like Rublev, Fils, maybe even Fonzie, have a better chance.

Right now my personal RG rankings are:
  1. Alcaraz
  2. Sinner
  3. Djokovic
  4. Zverev
  5. Rune
  6. Berrettini
  7. Ruud
  8. Tsitsipas
  9. Musetti
  10. Fils
But this could change.

p.s. Not sure why I have Berrettini so high...I guess I just haven't shaken the feeling that he's one good run from being a serious Slam contender. I'm still not sure he's back to his 2021 level, or if he'll ever get there. Dude is less than a year away from 30...
 
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El Dude

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Oh, and to respond to @Moxie . Good point about Wimbledon, though I think 2024-25 has set up a specific dynamic: If you want to win a hard court Slam, you have to get past Jannik; if you want to win clay or grass, you have to get past Carlos. While it has only been five Slams in a row, that's held consistent so far. I think my only question is whether Jannik can steal clay or grass from Carlos as the guy to beat.

Actually, I don't know why anyone hasn't made this comparison, but Alcaraz has a bit of Borg in that he dominates on clay and grass, less so on hards (though Borg had the now-gone fourth surface, carpet, where he was super dominant).

All that said, it is interesting to be getting into Madrid with the two best players out.
 
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Jelenafan

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Tbh honest, I don’t think there is any major disagreements in this discussion.

Yes, there is the most wide open field in years at the French Open.

I also don’t disagree with any of the contenders listed for Roland Garros by ElDude, but i just think there are far more contenders who have a realistic shot at winning a HC major. I don’t think there are legitimately more than, say, 10-15 serious contenders for the French Open whereas I do think there are at least that many for the HC’s. I could envision a Berritini or even an outlier like Sebastian Korda getting red hot and having a shot at a HC.

Anyways, we are all just speculating and it will all pan out by the actual results the next few years.
 

MargaretMcAleer

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ATP1000 Madrid
Matches begin 11.00am local time, Friday 25th April,

Rublev (7) defending champion starts his defense against Monfils, Rublev leads their H2H 3-1
Other top seeded players in action,
Zverev (1) Fritz (3) who made the SFs last year in Madrid, this will be his first appearance on clay this year, as he has been battling an abdominal injury, Rune (8)
Medvedev (9).