2024 ATP General News

[Kieran]

Nope, you obviously dont know the context of BJK nor tennis history. Her comments are just another rehashing of her lifelong dream & baby: World Team Tennis. Most those rule changes she proposed actually happened in WTT in the 70’s. Back then it was no ad scoring, team colors, etc.

She’s always had the desire to make tennis similar to team sports. BJK has been consistent on ths point, right or wrong for over 50+ years. You may think its elist or dumbing down, but I don’t because its a type of preference of American sports mentality, pure & simple. Now personally I think some of her ideas don’t quite work with tennis as an individual sport. And for your information, there have been many advocates for no ad scoring for decades, including many “conservative” tennis authorities and players.

I would push for net chords to be played, and i would like to have at least trial regular ATP tournament played with no ad scoring, ( didn’t they do one with the next gen ye finals a few years back) and if anyone would call me elitist or dumbing down tennis for that, well IMO they are just revealing their own prejudices and political leanings and hoisting them on me as their projection. Roddick as Moxie pointed out wants 2 out of 3 and its hilarious and absurd to think he of all people is some flaming liberal.

Just a thought, Look up your tennis history before you politicize per your prism everything anyone advocates.

I know tennis history, thanks. And I know of BJK.

And I stand by what I wrote, 100%. She’s presenting bad ideas for bad reasons.

 

[Sundaymorningguy]

I’m not opposed to a no Ad scoring system. I think it adds a new type of pressure to the scenario.

If they were going to implement a best 2 out of 3 with men, I would be on board for earlier rounds. I would say 4th round forward it should be best of 5 sets.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Results of SF
Swiss Indoors, Basel,

Mpetshi Perricard hit 17 aces and didnt face a BP on his way to defeat Rune 76(6) 64, he is into the biggest final so far in his career.

Shelton (6) d Fils (7) 63 76(9) ( I did no watch the match) Shelton is the first US player to reach the final in Basel since Agassi (1998)

Result of SF
Erste Bank Open,

Khachanov d Alex de Minaur 62 64

Draper (7) d Musetti(6) 62 64
Draper into his first ATP500 final
Jack will be a top 15 player on Monday, he was #91 a year ago.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Matteo Berrettini and coach Frances Roig will no longer work together ( I thought Matteo has played well since Roig came on board this year, surprised of this split)

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Final,
Swiss Indoors, Basel,
Sunday 27th October,

B. Shelton (6) vs Mpetshi Perricard Match could be a 'serve fest'!

Final,
Erste Bank Open, Vienna
Sunday 27th October,

J. Draper (7) vs K. Khachanov

 

[Kieran]

I’m not opposed to a no Ad scoring system. I think it adds a new type of pressure to the scenario.

If they were going to implement a best 2 out of 3 with men, I would be on board for earlier rounds. I would say 4th round forward it should be best of 5 sets.

The beauty of the ad system is that it adds great tension, and can prolong it. Endless break points, game points, the match on a knife edge. It’s unique in all sports, I’d imagine. That’s the genius of our scoring system, that nothing is straightforward and that when you win a game, a set or the match, there’s a terrible and thrilling examination of your willpower…

EDIT: by the way, on the best of 3 for men in a slam, we can stick a loud asterisk against any champions under those conditions. Slams aren’t Miami or Basle, they’re the hardest test in tennis. That includes physical and mental. Players have been two sets down in the first round and they’re still in the tournament. Bjorn Borg often went to five in the early rounds at Wimbledon, and took the title on the second weekend. That third set can be the toughest one to win, let them earn it!

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Kieran,

If the powers that be in tennis decided to have the best in 3 in a GS I am done with tennis full stop!, it tests out the mentality and also the physical form of a player, keep best of 3 in ATP 1000,500 and 250 events, though I was sad to see the Masters final going from best of 5 back to best of 3, in saying that I thought I would never see the day with coaching allowed both on the WTA and ATP

Another insane rule I wish they would abolish is the ' let' in tennis, I have said this before,
A let on a serve almost always favor's the returner.

 

[Kieran]

Kieran,

If the powers that be in tennis decided to have the best in 3 in a GS I am done with tennis full stop!, it tests out the mentality and also the physical form of a player, keep best of 3 in ATP 1000,500 and 250 events, though I was sad to see the Masters final going from best of 5 back to best of 3, in saying that I thought I would never see the day with coaching allowed both on the WTA and ATP

Another insane rule I wish they would abolish is the ' let' in tennis, I have said this before,
A let on a serve almost always favor's the returner.

I don’t mind the Let so much, I think it adds to the excitement. Second serve, 30-40, 3-4 down, a let! It’s all a test of nerve. The Let is idiosyncratic, I’ll grant you that, but that’s part of the beauty of our super sport. The point isn’t a lottery, they have to play the point. No fluke shots.

That’s another reason I’m in favour of the ad rule. At deuce, that the next point wins is something of a lottery too, where the harder task is to have to win the game by 2 points. These scoring rules are a huge part of what contributed to making tennis such a giant of a sport. We shouldn’t be pandering to wild speculations that the sport can be improved by tampering with the scoring, to dumb it down for casual slack jawed sports fans who don’t give a hoot anyway..

 

[Fiero425]

I’m not opposed to a no Ad scoring system. I think it adds a new type of pressure to the scenario.

If they were going to implement a best 2 out of 3 with men, I would be on board for earlier rounds. I would say 4th round forward it should be best of 5 sets.

It's been done at the USO back in '76! It was the 2nd year of the clay (Har-Tru) experiment at Forest Hills before moving to Flushing Meadows' HC's! They almost lost Bjorn Borg early to Jaime Fillol, Sr., but he was able to come back in a 3rd set TB! IMO, this is a desperate attempt to overcome the records set by Fedalovic if they go best of 3 or even worse go to the Next Gen. scoring used in their YEC tourney which has been moved out of Milan to Saudi Arabia last yr.! I'm a traditionist & wouldn't care for any of the proposed changes! It's already bad enough the tech used in rackets & strings! Fooling around w/ the scoring is unnecessary! Just limit the stalling & other time wasting on court like toweling off incessantly! That will help the opponent who's in better shape physically & mentally!

 

[Moxie]

I know tennis history, thanks. And I know of BJK.

And I stand by what I wrote, 100%. She’s presenting bad ideas for bad reasons.

Nah, you're just doubling-down because you got called out on faulty reasoning and politicizing something you don't like. It's a leap in logic to say that BJK wants to change the scoring because she thinks people are idiots, and another leap to say that makes her an "elitist." That word is overused in political terms to the point of meaninglessness. But if you're going to talk about "elites," can I remind you were talking about tennis? Even today, it's still not the sport of the masses, and it's still run by the country club and yacht set. I think you'd have to go a long way down the list of tennis insiders before you'd make Billie Jean an "elitist." She spent a lot of her career as an iconoclast, and on the wrong side of the "elites" who ran the sport. I may not be interested in her ideas about changes for tennis, but she's far from the first person who's proposed changes that I don't agree with. I believe this all started with the new coaching rule...and we're still hating on the current ones! Just because you suspect that BJK is a liberal doesn't mean you should attack her dopey tennis ideas from that angle. It's an overreach, IMO.

 

[Moxie]

I don’t mind the Let so much, I think it adds to the excitement. Second serve, 30-40, 3-4 down, a let! It’s all a test of nerve. The Let is idiosyncratic, I’ll grant you that, but that’s part of the beauty of our super sport. The point isn’t a lottery, they have to play the point. No fluke shots.

That’s another reason I’m in favour of the ad rule. At deuce, that the next point wins is something of a lottery too, where the harder task is to have to win the game by 2 points. These scoring rules are a huge part of what contributed to making tennis such a giant of a sport. We shouldn’t be pandering to wild speculations that the sport can be improved by tampering with the scoring, to dumb it down for casual slack jawed sports fans who don’t give a hoot anyway..

I'm agnostic on the Let rule. I could go with keeping, or just play the let serve. But I'm totally with you on keeping the ad-scoring. It's exciting! You have only to watch doubles where they have the no-Ad rule, and the game is over, whichever team wins the next point. It's anti-climactic, IMO. Think of a long game, with lots of ad in/ad out. If the returner fails to capitalize on many BP chances, how often have we seen them get broken in the next? We know how important these complicated service games are, and it's part of the mental battle, which I'm pretty sure is one of the main things we all love about tennis. I'm not in favor of changing that for the sake of shortening the game. I've seen it in doubles, and I don't like it. You'd lose something important.

As to the changing to Best of 3 at Majors, even in the early rounds, I'm not really in favor of that, either, but for all the reasons stated here, and as I have said before, it's why I think women should also play Bo5 at Majors. Even if you start with quarterfinals on, for the women. But I think they should be allowed to create the same kinds of epic battles that make the men's match so memorable, when they're great. And we've lost all of the Best of 5 in men's tennis, apart from the Majors. Not long ago in MS1000 finals, and in Davis Cup, too, but no more.

 

[Moxie]

It's been done at the USO back in '76! It was the 2nd year of the clay (Har-Tru) experiment at Forest Hills before moving to Flushing Meadows' HC's! They almost lost Bjorn Borg early to Jaime Fillol, Sr., but he was able to come back in a 3rd set TB! IMO, this is a desperate attempt to overcome the records set by Fedalovic if they go best of 3 or even worse go to the Next Gen. scoring used in their YEC tourney which has been moved out of Milan to Saudi Arabia last yr.! I'm a traditionist & wouldn't care for any of the proposed changes! It's already bad enough the tech used in rackets & strings! Fooling around w/ the scoring is unnecessary! Just limit the stalling & other time wasting on court like toweling off incessantly! That will help the opponent who's in better shape physically & mentally!

I hate that you always have to hate on the US Open, but moving on. This idea of best of 3 isn't just about overcoming fedalovic records, because it's been in the discussion for a long time. And the time-wasting has been shortened quite a lot by the time clock and tighter restrictions.

I'm sure we all have lots of examples of top players who would have gone out, if not for the luxury of the 5 sets. It does favor the top players. But I don't mind that...you get to the top, and there are lots of things that favor you, such as byes, and better seeding. It's a reward for top play. That's fair.

I don't know where you're going with racquet technology and string technology, though. Would you rather they still played with wood racquets and gut strings?

 

[Fiero425]

I hate that you always have to hate on the US Open, but moving on. This idea of best of 3 isn't just about overcoming fedalovic records, because it's been in the discussion for a long time. And the time-wasting has been shortened quite a lot by the time clock and tighter restrictions.

I'm sure we all have lots of examples of top players who would have gone out, if not for the luxury of the 5 sets. It does favor the top players. But I don't mind that...you get to the top, and there are lots of things that favor you, such as byes, and better seeding. It's a reward for top play. That's fair.

I don't know where you're going with racquet technology and string technology, though. Would you rather they still played with wood racquets and gut strings?

You call it "hating" on the USO! Am I lying about anything? Changing the court twice in 4 years, re-done DRAWS over controversies, DQ of Djokovic in 2020, Serena's bad outtings causing Int'l incidents, bad scheduling, going to BO3 for the men for those few years on clay, a couple stray bullets shot, muggings, & of course the murder of someone at the train stop there! I could go on, but it would sound like "hating!" I'm just reporting my observations watching the event from 1975 on & it's been a fk'n mess compared to the other Slams! Yrs. ago certain string tech was illegal! Rafa actually uses a string w/ teeth, imparting more spin! Nuff said as I stopped caring years ago!

 

[Jelenafan]

The French Open also did best of three in the opening rounds some years back

 

[Moxie]

You call it "hating" on the USO! Am I lying about anything? Changing the court twice in 4 years, re-done DRAWS over controversies, DQ of Djokovic in 2020, Serena's bad outtings causing Int'l incidents, bad scheduling, going to BO3 for the men for those few years on clay, a couple stray bullets shot, muggings, & of course the murder of someone at the train stop there! I could go on, but it would sound like "hating!" I'm just reporting my observations watching the event from 1975 on & it's been a fk'n mess compared to the other Slams! Yrs. ago certain string tech was illegal! Rafa actually uses a string w/ teeth, imparting more spin! Nuff said as I stopped caring years ago!

That's a lot of emoticons for someone who doesn't care.

I think we can fault all of the Majors for scheduling issues. I'm curious about re-done draws over controversies. Can you illuminate on that?

Novak was defaulted due to his own misbehavior. He'd been close other times, and it finally caught up to him. That's on him, not the tournament.

Also, the strings that Rafa uses are available to all players. Like a Stradivarius, the racquet is not about the strings, but who plays it.

 

[Fiero425]

That's a lot of emoticons for someone who doesn't care.

I think we can fault all of the Majors for scheduling issues. I'm curious about re-done draws over controversies. Can you illuminate on that?

Novak was defaulted due to his own misbehavior. He'd been close other times, and it finally caught up to him. That's on him, not the tournament.

Also, the strings that Rafa uses are available to all players. Like a Stradivarius, the racquet is not about the strings, but who plays it.

OCO, you can't do your own research? I thought you were tired of my belly-aching! Look it up! I have no intentions of going back to it!

 

[Moxie]

OCO, you can't do your own research? I thought you were tired of my belly-aching! Look it up! I have no intentions of going back to it!

It's customary around here to back up your own claims, and not expect others to back them up for you. But I did, you lazy bastard. So it happened once. At least they did not make up their own seedings like Wimbledon, for all those years. And, yes, I am tired of your bellyaching.

 

[Fiero425]

It's customary around here to back up your own claims, and not expect others to back them up for you. But I did, you lazy bastard. So it happened once. At least they did make up their own seedings like Wimbledon, for all those years. And, yes, I am tired of your bellyaching.

I listed a lot more instances of the US Open being a JOKE IMO! Are we living in another reality? You totally ignored the multi-assaults on the senses over the years! They've embarrassed themselves over & over again from '75 thru 2022 (not getting special dispensation to get Djokovic in the country to play the event)! Even Biden thought it made sense IIRC!

 

[Kieran]

Nah, you're just doubling-down because you got called out on faulty reasoning and politicizing something you don't like. It's a leap in logic to say that BJK wants to change the scoring because she thinks people are idiots, and another leap to say that makes her an "elitist." That word is overused in political terms to the point of meaninglessness. But if you're going to talk about "elites," can I remind you were talking about tennis?

The word is apt, actually. People who are crazed by some self serving requirement to tell us that the beautiful traditional elements of our sport have to be dumped, are elitist. They look down on what we love. They want to either change or break things that work perfectly, with no evidence that the changes will improve things, and with no real regard for the health of the game. This mindset affects politics all the time, as we often discuss when it comes to race and gender: bad ideas flourish among people or groups who want to destroy the most successful societies in history.

Stupid political mind germs can badly affect sport. We see that in discussions about equal pay. Common-sense and an understanding of the economics doesn’t rule their thinking: they’re trying to apply their progressive political leanings to sport: they think that equal pay in tennis is a social justice issue, when it isn’t.

John McEnroe often displays an urge to recommend stupid changes too, from a different angle. I wring my hands when I hear him make suggestions. Such a clever man, too.

Even today, it's still not the sport of the masses, and it's still run by the country club and yacht set. I think you'd have to go a long way down the list of tennis insiders before you'd make Billie Jean an "elitist." She spent a lot of her career as an iconoclast, and on the wrong side of the "elites" who ran the sport. I may not be interested in her ideas about changes for tennis, but she's far from the first person who's proposed changes that I don't agree with. I believe this all started with the new coaching rule...and we're still hating on the current ones! Just because you suspect that BJK is a liberal doesn't mean you should attack her dopey tennis ideas from that angle. It's an overreach, IMO.

And there you go again. Just because I suspect BJK is a liberal. Actually, I more than suspect that she is, but that doesn’t interest me, the world needs liberals, just as it needs conservatives. We need both, and we don’t need what we have now, which is violent extremists on both sides - especially in your country. But when I called her an elitist it’s because she came up with stupid ideas that are not good for the sport, and which show she’s out of touch. Which I’ve long suspected anyway. I wouldn’t like any stagnant conservative mindset to hamper tennis either.

Tennis isn’t broken. It doesn’t need fixing. Especially the scoring system, which is ingenious, even the 15, 30, deuce etc, parts of it. So what if it no longer makes sense, from the perspective of how many points they win? That’s part of its beauty.

It might occasionally need tweaking though, and the shot clock is a great addition, while the toilet breaks have been a cagey one because they’re too open to abuse, especially by a certain player who brings his bag with him everywhere and goes missing for hours on end after sets he’s just lost.

Hawkeye has been a great addition to the professional game, though I miss the human aspect of line calling. Coaching of any sort during the match is a senseless addition. Most of the big changes, whether just casually tossed out by BJK or more seriously, discussed by the ITF, are poor examples of thinking, and yes, they’re elitist. Fans seem to know more about what we like than these clowns.

 

[Kieran]

You call it "hating" on the USO! Am I lying about anything? Changing the court twice in 4 years, re-done DRAWS over controversies, DQ of Djokovic in 2020, Serena's bad outtings causing Int'l incidents, bad scheduling, going to BO3 for the men for those few years on clay, a couple stray bullets shot, muggings, & of course the murder of someone at the train stop there! I could go on, but it would sound like "hating!" I'm just reporting my observations watching the event from 1975 on & it's been a fk'n mess compared to the other Slams! Yrs. ago certain string tech was illegal! Rafa actually uses a string w/ teeth, imparting more spin! Nuff said as I stopped caring years ago!

Wait:

DQ of Djokovic in 2020, Serena's bad outtings causing Int'l incidents

Let’s focus on this: Djoker missiled a line judge in the neck. Serena offered a line judge a tennis ball enema during the match. And there were other disgusting examples of her behaviour being out of control. You think these players were badly treated?

Maybe instead of tiebreaks we can have players whack balls at line judges and whoever hits the most line judges wins the set?

Don’t even get me imagining how ramming a tennis ball up a lineswomans hole is a good thing…