2015 Australian Open Final: S. Williams vs. Sharapova

Who ya got: #1 seed or #2 seed?


  • Total voters
    19

sk310

Masters Champion
Joined
Apr 17, 2013
Messages
905
Reactions
0
Points
0
tenisplayrla08 said:
The GOAT conversation is a fruitless one for the most part. But the era differences are just too great. Navratilova and Evert were just the best out there. Serena is the best out there but, the racquets have changed. Steffi "only" won 107 titles which shows that the amount of tournaments around to play and the amount of tournaments needed to play to make a decent living or better was already going down. If Serena gets anywhere near 80 titles, I'll consider that right up there with those girls. Yes, 167 and 157 is just gargantuan. But the racquets being the way they were, the girls who were not as good just didn't have as much leverage. Serena can be upset by someone playing extremely strong because they have a racquet that can hit it past her. And she does the same thing obviously. She and Venus made it that way more than ever before.

I love Steffi and I don't fault her for very little doubles play at all. But.... for me, and I'll always catch at least some flack for this, but there is an asterisk over her career. And it's name is Monica Seles. I have a hard time believing Steffi gets to 22 if Seles doesn't get stabbed. Seles did and so Steffi was definitely the best around still after that and deserved her 4 to 6 titles she won after the stabbing. She won 11 slams, after Seles' stabbing. She may have made it to 18. But she wouldn't have gotten to 22. I don't know. There's nothing I can do about it and I don't want to take away from her because she was amazing and dominant. But it has always bothered me and it always will. Seles had a new game and that rivalry deserved a lot more. Hate it. I mean, the Seles stabbing has implications on the late 90s overall. I don't think Hingis has near the success she had if Seles is never stabbed. Serena and Venus' early years could have been somewhat different. And Seles herself would probably be part of the GOAT talk in my opinion.

Anyways, all these ladies are just amazing. I'm glad Serena has passed Martina and Chrissy because that's the only way she can compete with them up here. She's got Chrissy in the doubles category. So that helps her there. But against Martina, who was only stopped at 18 because of Chrissy and then Steffi's dominant game. And well, the same goes for Chrissy. If Martina doesn't exist she'd have beaten Court's record by 5 or 10. They were just so much better than everyone else. So many grand slam finals and semis. It's insane. Serena had many foes. All of whom she was and is better than but who can beat her a bit more because they've got similar power and a strong racquet. Just so much more depth these days. Even though it would be wrong to say that Chrissy and Martina didn't have to deal with Goolagong Cawley and Casals and Shriver and Austin and Wade and Barker and Mandlikova and more.

Tough discussion. Which is why it's probably better to just say they're all amazing and they all feel great to be mentioned in the same breath as one another. They're more than happy to recognize each others achievements.

Yeah Im with you on all of this. The eras of the GOAT candidates differ so much that its impossible not to have at least 3 or 4 players named as GOATS. I think the physicality of todays game is so different that playing to the finals of ALL the tournaments Martina and Chrissy played would not be possible today. It would take crazy luck and skill not to get injured.

I had a friend (German by the way) tell me today that Steffi had mud harder opponents and that Serena has had no competition. I think thats kind of silly because after Monica who did Steffi really have? Martina won her last slam in 1990. So lets say for the peak years of Graf she really only had Conchita, Arantxa, Monica, and Martina Hingis at the end. Serena has at least equaled that in being in the same era is Plus+ winners Justine, Kim C, Maria, and now Vika could likely go above 4-5. I just think its impossible to compare careers when you look at them as a whole.
 

Federberg

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 22, 2013
Messages
15,546
Reactions
5,613
Points
113
Fiero425 said:
fashionista said:
Sundaymorningguy said:
She can't skip Madrid it is mandatory. I would have preferred Rome been the mandatory anyway.

It is a shame the WTA dosent have the ATP rule where a player can skip a mandatory event, depending on how long you have been on the tour and the overall matches you have won. I forgot that the WTA dosent share the same policy.

So what you have and want more of are fake injuries and a lot of lying! That's what bothered me the most about the Williams'; playing when they felt like it! Outside interests have come back to haunt them IMO! They didn't think the rules pertained to them and were probably taken to task behind the scenes! I know it happened a lot at the beginning of their careers; insolent, snobby, and totally full of themselves! Never been a fan of their act; the screeching, intermittent play, and for the most part not taking the sport seriously! No other top players have been this petulant, ignoring all decorum and history! Now that both are in their 30's, they're trying to re-write the script and their spotty history; fat chance as long as I'm around! :p :eyepop :puzzled :dodgy:

I think we need to be careful here Fiero. I rather suspect it would be difficult for any of us to have to put up with covert racism as much as these 2 marvellous athletes have. The fact that they stuck at it and are still there is highly impressive in my view. It's not clear to me that they've "screeched" more than a Sharapova, been more snobby or insolent than some others. Or been more diva-like than others. Yes it's disappointing that they haven't been around as much as they should have been. But cut them some slack. It can't have been easy
 

kskate2

Administrator
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
31,025
Reactions
10,034
Points
113
Age
55
Location
Tampa Bay
FYI,

I moved all posts about Steffi/Monica to a thread that was previously created. Visit that thread to continue posting about that subject:

http://www.tennisfrontier.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=3562
 

Sundaymorningguy

Grand Slam Champion
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Messages
6,384
Reactions
1,759
Points
113
Location
Norfolk, VA
Apparently, Serena is going to really scale things back in her schedule. According to the article, she is only playing in Dubai, more than likely Miami, and she is only doing 2 clay tournament warm ups. I like that schedule. The article: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/03/sports/tennis/no-quit-for-serena-williams-is-a-double-edged-sword.html?ref=tennis&_r=0
 

tossip

Grand Slam Champion
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Messages
7,297
Reactions
2,600
Points
113
pova is just not as good as the media wants us to believe....17-2 is too much and this year it will be 20-2...this AO15 was gift wrapped for pova with all her easy targets and then Serena had the toughest road.
Serena is just more talented than pova and they should not be spoken as equals....
pova tried fist pumping but nothing worked....11yrs later..
 

Kirijax

Grand Slam Champion
Joined
May 2, 2014
Messages
6,220
Reactions
4
Points
0
Age
60
Location
Kirishima, Japan
I think someday, somewhere the Banshee will finally surprise Serena, play the match of her life and surprise Serena on an off day.

Oh wait, that already happened in 2004. Never mind.
 

tossip

Grand Slam Champion
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Messages
7,297
Reactions
2,600
Points
113
Kirijax said:
I think someday, somewhere the Banshee will finally surprise Serena, play the match of her life and surprise Serena on an off day.

Oh wait, that already happened in 2004. Never mind.
AO15 was her best chance...pova was playing very good ball until that final.She has a mental block against Serena...even if she would have been ahead she would have still lost because she has no belief against Serena.:popcorn
 

the AntiPusher

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
17,009
Reactions
7,124
Points
113
tossip said:
Kirijax said:
I think someday, somewhere the Banshee will finally surprise Serena, play the match of her life and surprise Serena on an off day.

Oh wait, that already happened in 2004. Never mind.
AO15 was her best chance...pova was playing very good ball until that final.She has a mental block against Serena...even if she would have been ahead she would have still lost because she has no belief against Serena.:popcorn

If Maria she had any confidence, its really has to be shaken because she played her best and Serena increased the level of play as the match progressed.