2014 Roland Garros QF: Nadal vs. Ferrer

[Moxie]

^ He didn't exactly "quit while he was ahead." He got down an early break in the 2nd and lost his chances to get back on serve. That lost him the 2nd. Then he was down a break immediately in the 3rd. So the mountain he was climbing got bigger and bigger. He admits he lost focus. He also says the 3rd set is something he'd like to forget. He's had tough losses against Nadal on clay, and esp. at RG…he could be forgiven for getting discouraged.

wonder what ferrers gonna do next time these two face off. is he just gonna withdraw? or just play for the sake of playing.

Perhaps you didn't see my post in response to your above. There is no reason to treat Ferrer like a neutered man or a quitter. Perhaps he shouldn't have been so forthcoming about his feelings, but he's always been a valiant competitor. He hit the wall today, but don't crucify him for not having more to give, in this particular match. I'm pretty sure he's not done, and on another day he'll fight Nadal for it.

 

[Front242]

^ Yeah, fine except he's almost Fed's age so the days are numbered and it's probably down to the non slam clay events to beat Nadal now with the attitude he showed today against a vulnerable Nadal, the likes of which he may or may not face again. He probably won't ever get a chance at RG like this again.

 

[crystalfire]

^ He didn't exactly "quit while he was ahead." He got down an early break in the 2nd and lost his chances to get back on serve. That lost him the 2nd. Then he was down a break immediately in the 3rd. So the mountain he was climbing got bigger and bigger. He admits he lost focus. He also says the 3rd set is something he'd like to forget. He's had tough losses against Nadal on clay, and esp. at RG…he could be forgiven for getting discouraged.

wonder what ferrers gonna do next time these two face off. is he just gonna withdraw? or just play for the sake of playing.

Perhaps you didn't see my post in response to your above. There is no reason to treat Ferrer like a neutered man or a quitter. Perhaps he shouldn't have been so forthcoming about his feelings, but he's always been a valiant competitor. He hit the wall today, but don't crucify him for not having more to give, in this particular match. I'm pretty sure he's not done, and on another day he'll fight Nadal for it.

honestly thought today was the day. maybe not win but go 5 sets. actually test nadal. make him earn the semis of a slam. not just hand it to him.

 

[Front242]

Would've been nice alright to not just bend over.

 

[Moxie]

^ He didn't exactly "quit while he was ahead." He got down an early break in the 2nd and lost his chances to get back on serve. That lost him the 2nd. Then he was down a break immediately in the 3rd. So the mountain he was climbing got bigger and bigger. He admits he lost focus. He also says the 3rd set is something he'd like to forget. He's had tough losses against Nadal on clay, and esp. at RG…he could be forgiven for getting discouraged.

wonder what ferrers gonna do next time these two face off. is he just gonna withdraw? or just play for the sake of playing.

Perhaps you didn't see my post in response to your above. There is no reason to treat Ferrer like a neutered man or a quitter. Perhaps he shouldn't have been so forthcoming about his feelings, but he's always been a valiant competitor. He hit the wall today, but don't crucify him for not having more to give, in this particular match. I'm pretty sure he's not done, and on another day he'll fight Nadal for it.

honestly thought today was the day. maybe not win but go 5 sets. actually test nadal. make him earn the semis of a slam. not just hand it to him.

I'm sure Ferrer would have tested him to 5 if he could have. No one hands anyone anything they don't take…or very rarely, especially at a Slam.

 

[crystalfire]

^ He didn't exactly "quit while he was ahead." He got down an early break in the 2nd and lost his chances to get back on serve. That lost him the 2nd. Then he was down a break immediately in the 3rd. So the mountain he was climbing got bigger and bigger. He admits he lost focus. He also says the 3rd set is something he'd like to forget. He's had tough losses against Nadal on clay, and esp. at RG…he could be forgiven for getting discouraged.

wonder what ferrers gonna do next time these two face off. is he just gonna withdraw? or just play for the sake of playing.

Perhaps you didn't see my post in response to your above. There is no reason to treat Ferrer like a neutered man or a quitter. Perhaps he shouldn't have been so forthcoming about his feelings, but he's always been a valiant competitor. He hit the wall today, but don't crucify him for not having more to give, in this particular match. I'm pretty sure he's not done, and on another day he'll fight Nadal for it.

honestly thought today was the day. maybe not win but go 5 sets. actually test nadal. make him earn the semis of a slam. not just hand it to him.

I'm sure Ferrer would have tested him to 5 if he could have. No one hands anyone anything they don't take…or very rarely, especially at a Slam.

he could have and should have. there was no reason to be eating bagels and breadsticks when rafa isnt even playing to his full potential.

 

[Moxie]

^ He didn't exactly "quit while he was ahead." He got down an early break in the 2nd and lost his chances to get back on serve. That lost him the 2nd. Then he was down a break immediately in the 3rd. So the mountain he was climbing got bigger and bigger. He admits he lost focus. He also says the 3rd set is something he'd like to forget. He's had tough losses against Nadal on clay, and esp. at RG…he could be forgiven for getting discouraged.

wonder what ferrers gonna do next time these two face off. is he just gonna withdraw? or just play for the sake of playing.

Perhaps you didn't see my post in response to your above. There is no reason to treat Ferrer like a neutered man or a quitter. Perhaps he shouldn't have been so forthcoming about his feelings, but he's always been a valiant competitor. He hit the wall today, but don't crucify him for not having more to give, in this particular match. I'm pretty sure he's not done, and on another day he'll fight Nadal for it.

honestly thought today was the day. maybe not win but go 5 sets. actually test nadal. make him earn the semis of a slam. not just hand it to him.

I'm sure Ferrer would have tested him to 5 if he could have. No one hands anyone anything they don't take…or very rarely, especially at a Slam.

he could have and should have. there was no reason to be eating bagels and breadsticks when rafa isnt even playing to his full potential.

"Could have and should have" done what...tried? I'm sure he did, at first. "Should" he have won? There is a reason that Nadal has won at RG 8 times…he's massively better here than basically everyone, even at less than his best. Ferrer threw everything he had at Nadal for 2 sets. It wasn't enough, and he got increasingly diminished returns. What more can you ask, when even Federer and Djokovic haven't beaten Nadal here? It feels like a cliche to say that Nadal is a tough out at RG…but it's still true, too. Don't beat Ferrer up because he didn't do what almost no one else has done, either. I love that he gets so little credit from most people on these boards, and yet, when he didn't do the near-impossible, he's gutless and blew his chances. I'm sorry, but I'd be more sympathetic with some of this outrage if I weren't one of Ferrer's few champions on these boards. I stand by my comment that, if it weren't for the fact that so many would have liked to see an upset of Nadal at the hands of anyone, no one would have been so outraged that Ferrer went down in 4 to the likes of Djokovic or Murray.

 

[TsarMatt]

On one hand, I respect Ferrer for being this candid, on the other hand, this is a shameful attitude:

"(In the second set) Rafael started playing a lot better, making fewer mistakes, and then it's like I threw in the towel," said the fifth-seed, who lost in the all-Spanish final aganst Nadal at Roland Garros last year.

"I don't usually do this, but I thought, I'm not going to be able to come back into the match. I thought, No, no, not against Rafa. He's such good a player."

"I wouldn't even use the word 'frustration' you see. What I missed is perhaps strength or the appetite to win and the drive," he said.

The shameful part is not admitting to that. The shameful part is "throwing the towel" when tied a set apiece against an opponent who wasn't even playing that well.

Indeed. I don't know why Ferrer is like this. He managed to defeat Nadal about a month back at Monte Carlo -- that had to mean something. But still, any player 'throwing in the towel' when it's one set all at a QF major is a bit silly.

As an attempt at an explanation, not a defense, perhaps Ferrer has just lost to Nadal at too many moments on the big stage, especially at RG. He lost belief, and he got discouraged. Chris Evert says often enough that, after 30, there are days when you're not feeling it as much. I know David is very fit, but if a player loses belief, it must be hard to keep going through those long punishing rallies like they were playing.

The thing is, Nadal wasn't even playing that well when he took the second set. Ferrer made a few UEs, Rafa upped the ante a bit, but that was pretty much it. It was still a very even match in many regards. How somebody can just give up like that, so soon, when you are still arguably the better player of the match is beyond me. Ferrer, at this point, had more winners and was demonstrating he could match Nadal in the baseline rallies. I definitely think you're right in regards to the history between the two, but Ferrer did beat Nadal at Monte Carlo, arguably the most solely-dominated Masters 1000 event out there by a single player on tour.

I just don't know why he gave up so quickly. You've taken a set off Nadal at RG (not something that happens everyday), he then takes one off you, and then you 'throw in the towel'? I mean, where's the drive Ferrer?

 

[Fiero425]

On one hand, I respect Ferrer for being this candid, on the other hand, this is a shameful attitude:

"(In the second set) Rafael started playing a lot better, making fewer mistakes, and then it's like I threw in the towel," said the fifth-seed, who lost in the all-Spanish final aganst Nadal at Roland Garros last year.

"I don't usually do this, but I thought, I'm not going to be able to come back into the match. I thought, No, no, not against Rafa. He's such good a player."

"I wouldn't even use the word 'frustration' you see. What I missed is perhaps strength or the appetite to win and the drive," he said.

The shameful part is not admitting to that. The shameful part is "throwing the towel" when tied a set apiece against an opponent who wasn't even playing that well.

Indeed. I don't know why Ferrer is like this. He managed to defeat Nadal about a month back at Monte Carlo -- that had to mean something. But still, any player 'throwing in the towel' when it's one set all at a QF major is a bit silly.

As an attempt at an explanation, not a defense, perhaps Ferrer has just lost to Nadal at too many moments on the big stage, especially at RG. He lost belief, and he got discouraged. Chris Evert says often enough that, after 30, there are days when you're not feeling it as much. I know David is very fit, but if a player loses belief, it must be hard to keep going through those long punishing rallies like they were playing.

The thing is, Nadal wasn't even playing that well when he took the second set. Ferrer made a few UEs, Rafa upped the ante a bit, but that was pretty much it. It was still a very even match in many regards. How somebody can just give up like that, so soon, when you are still arguably the better player of the match is beyond me. Ferrer, at this point, had more winners and was demonstrating he could match Nadal in the baseline rallies. I definitely think you're right in regards to the history between the two, but Ferrer did beat Nadal at Monte Carlo, arguably the most solely-dominated Masters 1000 event out there by a single player on tour.

I just don't know why he gave up so quickly. You've taken a set off Nadal at RG (not something that happens everyday), he then takes one off you, and then you 'throw in the towel'? I mean, where's the drive Ferrer?

As I've been saying about a lot of these "also-rans;" GUTLESS! :nono uzzled :s :angel:

 

[Denis]

wonder what ferrers gonna do next time these two face off. is he just gonna withdraw? or just play for the sake of playing.

Exactly. He lost his credibility with these comments. If he wants to team up with Rafa he should play doubles with him, not take out his competitors and then bend over.

 

[brokenshoelace]

wonder what ferrers gonna do next time these two face off. is he just gonna withdraw? or just play for the sake of playing.

Exactly. He lost his credibility with these comments. If he wants to team up with Rafa he should play doubles with him, not take out his competitors and then bend over.

It's funny I didn't hear you be so redundant when Tsonga bent over.

 

[Denis]

wonder what ferrers gonna do next time these two face off. is he just gonna withdraw? or just play for the sake of playing.

Exactly. He lost his credibility with these comments. If he wants to team up with Rafa he should play doubles with him, not take out his competitors and then bend over.

It's funny I didn't hear you be so redundant when Tsonga bent over.

Ah yes, another point directed at me personally. It seems to be a habit of the Fedal camp out here. I will ignore these posts from now on, but for you, as I generally like your posts a lot, I will respond.

I didn't post during that match, so yes you did not hear me. But I have said many times in the past that, although I really like Tsonga, I think his attitude is terrible. I don't think he tanked the match though. He is just horribly out of shape and mentally completely out of it. He was simply not ready at all for this match, which is something different from giving up when you are in the lead. But both attitudes are pretty bad.

 

[the AntiPusher]

wonder what ferrers gonna do next time these two face off. is he just gonna withdraw? or just play for the sake of playing.

Exactly. He lost his credibility with these comments. If he wants to team up with Rafa he should play doubles with him, not take out his competitors and then bend over.

It's funny I didn't hear you be so redundant when Tsonga bent over.

Ah yes, another point directed at me personally. It seems to be a habit of the Fedal camp out here. I will ignore these posts from now on, but for you, as I generally like your posts a lot, I will respond.

I didn't post during that match, so yes you did not hear me. But I have said many times in the past that, although I really like Tsonga, I think his attitude is terrible. I don't think he tanked the match though. He is just horribly out of shape and mentally completely out of it. He was simply not ready at all for this match, which is something different from giving up when you are in the lead. But both attitudes are pretty bad.

I wouldnt say that JoWillieTs is out of shape but probably is not in grand slam match conditioned.. He appears to have drop a few pounds but havent gotten his legs back since he has returned to the tour. Hopefully, he will make it to the 2nd week of SW19.. as for attitude.. Is there a better person on tour than JoWillieTs.. he never argues with the chair umpire, side umpires, always nice to the ball kids and very respectful to the other players. Heck, I wish I could introduce my oldest daughter to him, maybe I can get some better seats for the tourneyscool:

 

[Denis]

wonder what ferrers gonna do next time these two face off. is he just gonna withdraw? or just play for the sake of playing.

Exactly. He lost his credibility with these comments. If he wants to team up with Rafa he should play doubles with him, not take out his competitors and then bend over.

It's funny I didn't hear you be so redundant when Tsonga bent over.

Ah yes, another point directed at me personally. It seems to be a habit of the Fedal camp out here. I will ignore these posts from now on, but for you, as I generally like your posts a lot, I will respond.

I didn't post during that match, so yes you did not hear me. But I have said many times in the past that, although I really like Tsonga, I think his attitude is terrible. I don't think he tanked the match though. He is just horribly out of shape and mentally completely out of it. He was simply not ready at all for this match, which is something different from giving up when you are in the lead. But both attitudes are pretty bad.

I wouldnt say that JoWillieTs is out of shape but probably is not in grand slam match conditioned.. He appears to have drop a few pounds but havent gotten his legs back since he has returned to the tour. Hopefully, he will make it to the 2nd week of SW19.. as for attitude.. Is there a better person on tour than JoWillieTs.. he never argues with the chair umpire, side umpires, always nice to the ball kids and very respectful to the other players. Heck, I wish I could introduce my oldest daughter to him, maybe I can get some better seats for the tourneyscool:

I agree. That part of his attitude is commendable. I was referring to his competitive attitude and focus during a match. It's not always there.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Exactly. He lost his credibility with these comments. If he wants to team up with Rafa he should play doubles with him, not take out his competitors and then bend over.

It's funny I didn't hear you be so redundant when Tsonga bent over.

Ah yes, another point directed at me personally. It seems to be a habit of the Fedal camp out here. I will ignore these posts from now on, but for you, as I generally like your posts a lot, I will respond.

I didn't post during that match, so yes you did not hear me. But I have said many times in the past that, although I really like Tsonga, I think his attitude is terrible. I don't think he tanked the match though. He is just horribly out of shape and mentally completely out of it. He was simply not ready at all for this match, which is something different from giving up when you are in the lead. But both attitudes are pretty bad.

I wouldnt say that JoWillieTs is out of shape but probably is not in grand slam match conditioned.. He appears to have drop a few pounds but havent gotten his legs back since he has returned to the tour. Hopefully, he will make it to the 2nd week of SW19.. as for attitude.. Is there a better person on tour than JoWillieTs.. he never argues with the chair umpire, side umpires, always nice to the ball kids and very respectful to the other players. Heck, I wish I could introduce my oldest daughter to him, maybe I can get some better seats for the tourneyscool:

I agree. That part of his attitude is commendable. I was referring to his competitive attitude and focus during a match. It's not always there.

Agreed.. JoWillieTs doesnt have the "eye of the Tiger", neither does Berdych unless he is facing Fed. Heck, I guess it applies to both when the face the GOAT which is like being in the SuperBowl or World Cup final for those two players. That's is what so puzzling about Monfils, when he got upset and edgy he played well.. I give all the credit to Murray, how he righted that sinking ship late yesterday evening before dust was astonishing:clap

 

[isabelle]

Toni complained about court's choice : he said that organizers were wrong to put Nadal/Ferrer on Lenglen instead of CC...but la Monf was the last local hero so he had CC instead of Toni's nephew, that's life unfair Toni !! I guess all countries do the same

 

[JesuslookslikeBorg]

^^good old Uncle Toni complaining ?...*sigh*.. same old same old. :snigger

 

[brokenshoelace]

wonder what ferrers gonna do next time these two face off. is he just gonna withdraw? or just play for the sake of playing.

Exactly. He lost his credibility with these comments. If he wants to team up with Rafa he should play doubles with him, not take out his competitors and then bend over.

It's funny I didn't hear you be so redundant when Tsonga bent over.

Ah yes, another point directed at me personally. It seems to be a habit of the Fedal camp out here. I will ignore these posts from now on, but for you, as I generally like your posts a lot, I will respond.

I didn't post during that match, so yes you did not hear me. But I have said many times in the past that, although I really like Tsonga, I think his attitude is terrible. I don't think he tanked the match though. He is just horribly out of shape and mentally completely out of it. He was simply not ready at all for this match, which is something different from giving up when you are in the lead. But both attitudes are pretty bad.

Word of advice, don't take things personally. I'll also remind you that I don't think I've ever personally attacked you so I don't get where this "another post directed at me personally" is coming from.

Now, to explain my post, all I said was that you're being redundant. That's no attack. It's just a thing that whenever Nadal beats someone, you tend to post the same things, while ignoring that players "bend over" all the time...to other players too. All I'm asking is for us to be equal opportunity critics. If you're going to criticize a guy for his attitude (and keep in mind I was the one who originally brought up how terrible Ferrer's attitude is, so I'm not disagreeing with you), do it consistently, and not when it's most convenient (ie when it's not your player on the other side of the net).

 

[Denis]

wonder what ferrers gonna do next time these two face off. is he just gonna withdraw? or just play for the sake of playing.

Exactly. He lost his credibility with these comments. If he wants to team up with Rafa he should play doubles with him, not take out his competitors and then bend over.

It's funny I didn't hear you be so redundant when Tsonga bent over.

Ah yes, another point directed at me personally. It seems to be a habit of the Fedal camp out here. I will ignore these posts from now on, but for you, as I generally like your posts a lot, I will respond.

I didn't post during that match, so yes you did not hear me. But I have said many times in the past that, although I really like Tsonga, I think his attitude is terrible. I don't think he tanked the match though. He is just horribly out of shape and mentally completely out of it. He was simply not ready at all for this match, which is something different from giving up when you are in the lead. But both attitudes are pretty bad.

Word of advice, don't take things personally. I'll also remind you that I don't think I've ever personally attacked you so I don't get where this "another post directed at me personally" is coming from.

Now, to explain my post, all I said was that you're being redundant. That's no attack. It's just a thing that whenever Nadal beats someone, you tend to post the same things, while ignoring that players "bend over" all the time...to other players too. All I'm asking is for us to be equal opportunity critics. If you're going to criticize a guy for his attitude (and keep in mind I was the one who originally brought up how terrible Ferrer's attitude is, so I'm not disagreeing with you), do it consistently, and not when it's most convenient (ie when it's not your player on the other side of the net).

That does make it personal then doesn't it?

Anyways, on Ferrer and other players bending over. Yes, generally most players 'bend over' to Nadal, as they do to Novak and the Fedster too. It depends how you define bending over. It also, in my opinion, depends on the player itself. I apply different standards to Ferrer than I do to, say, Dustin Brown when he plays a top player.

Ferrer is a top ten player for a very long time now. This, in my view, raises the bar. I expect a player which is ranked top 5 for the last 5 years now or so to seek to beat the other player more, because there should be more self-belief. I can also see how you could see this differently though, that's fine.

Another reason why I have a problem with Ferrer's attitude is that he is able to give everything against lower ranked players, but not to top players. This is just mind blowing. You are known to be an incredible fighter, yet as soon as you encounter a higher ranked player you fold? I just don't get it.

Lastly, it also comes across as spoiled. He is in a quarter final of a grand slam and he's not fighting. That's just bad. He also did it in a GS final mind you (his only). Plenty of other players out there who would have at least wanted to put up a fight.

Which brings me to the first point. What is bending over exactly? I think there is mentally bending over and just bending over because you are getting hit off the court. The latter was definitely not the case for Ferrer in this match. Sometimes it is though with Ferrer, I'll give you that. And it's very often (almost always on clay) the case for Nadal's opponents. Just not this year.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Exactly. He lost his credibility with these comments. If he wants to team up with Rafa he should play doubles with him, not take out his competitors and then bend over.

It's funny I didn't hear you be so redundant when Tsonga bent over.

Ah yes, another point directed at me personally. It seems to be a habit of the Fedal camp out here. I will ignore these posts from now on, but for you, as I generally like your posts a lot, I will respond.

I didn't post during that match, so yes you did not hear me. But I have said many times in the past that, although I really like Tsonga, I think his attitude is terrible. I don't think he tanked the match though. He is just horribly out of shape and mentally completely out of it. He was simply not ready at all for this match, which is something different from giving up when you are in the lead. But both attitudes are pretty bad.

Word of advice, don't take things personally. I'll also remind you that I don't think I've ever personally attacked you so I don't get where this "another post directed at me personally" is coming from.

Now, to explain my post, all I said was that you're being redundant. That's no attack. It's just a thing that whenever Nadal beats someone, you tend to post the same things, while ignoring that players "bend over" all the time...to other players too. All I'm asking is for us to be equal opportunity critics. If you're going to criticize a guy for his attitude (and keep in mind I was the one who originally brought up how terrible Ferrer's attitude is, so I'm not disagreeing with you), do it consistently, and not when it's most convenient (ie when it's not your player on the other side of the net).

That does make it personal then doesn't it?

No. Not really. I have a problem with the lack of consistency in criticism. I don't have a problem with you. If that's what you consider personal that's on you.