2014 Roland Garros Final: Nadal vs. Djokovic

[DarthFed]

Darth, I like you buddy, I really do, but in the chat, you said "DJokovic is not a factor on fast hards..." Uhh... I know you're disappointed, but come on.

Didn't say that, I just said he isn't someone to be greatly feared there, and I wouldn't bank on him winning another major again aside from AO until he does.

 

[Front242]

That's a stat a lot of people like to disregard. Rafa really digs his heels on important matches.

Novak going AWOL in many of those contributes quite richly to that stat too btw

He goes "AWOL" because he feels pressured to push ... because it's Rafa.

Actual the problem for much of today was all he did was push. Push the ball over the net with no force like Murray. He played a lot of pusher rallies and blasted tons of balls long, into the net, and ended on a double fault. It reminded me of Federer against Nadal to be honest.

Sure it's a great stat but it's not all about Nadal all the time is all I'm saying. His opponents' play in many of these matches has been very poor too.

Well, apparently he was sick soo that's probably why he was "pushing-a-la-Murray" today...
I still thought he played OK, Novak.

Novak clearly didn't play his best. Neither of them did, but as Marian Vajda said on his interview after the match, even though the level wasn't as high as the last 2 years they've met in RG, the match was VERY VERY intense for both of them this year.

There's a reason why Novak "wilts" in the GSs versus Rafa and I think it's party because Rafa has a different mind set and exudes a different aura. That's a hard obstacle to be up against.

Well we'll agree to disagree since unlike most of the other players out there, Novak has a very good record against Rafa and doesn't fear him in the slightest but he always seems to bend over in the big matches. That's more of a poor execution problem Novak has to work badly on at this stage 'cos it's the same against Murray...

 

[brokenshoelace]

Darth, I like you buddy, I really do, but in the chat, you said "DJokovic is not a factor on fast hards..." Uhh... I know you're disappointed, but come on.

Didn't say that, I just said he isn't someone to be greatly feared there, and I wouldn't bank on him winning another major again aside from AO until he does.

Who would you say is more feared on fast hards?

 

[brokenshoelace]

Novak going AWOL in many of those contributes quite richly to that stat too btw

He goes "AWOL" because he feels pressured to push ... because it's Rafa.

Actual the problem for much of today was all he did was push. Push the ball over the net with no force like Murray. He played a lot of pusher rallies and blasted tons of balls long, into the net, and ended on a double fault. It reminded me of Federer against Nadal to be honest.

Sure it's a great stat but it's not all about Nadal all the time is all I'm saying. His opponents' play in many of these matches has been very poor too.

Well, apparently he was sick soo that's probably why he was "pushing-a-la-Murray" today...
I still thought he played OK, Novak.

Novak clearly didn't play his best. Neither of them did, but as Marian Vajda said on his interview after the match, even though the level wasn't as high as the last 2 years they've met in RG, the match was VERY VERY intense for both of them this year.

There's a reason why Novak "wilts" in the GSs versus Rafa and I think it's party because Rafa has a different mind set and exudes a different aura. That's a hard obstacle to be up against.

Well we'll agree to disagree since unlike most of the other players out there, Novak has a very good record against Rafa and doesn't fear him in the slightest but he always seems to bend over in the big matches. That's more of a poor execution problem Novak has to work badly on at this stage 'cos it's the same against Murray...

You think Novak's problem today is that he bent over? In one of the biggest matches of his career, to complete his grand slam collection? There's a difference between not executing well and bending over. What big matches has Novak bent over in for Nadal?

 

[Front242]

You don't think he bent over today?! Sure it was a huge match but he still bent the hell over! And that's what makes it worse for him and his fans. Keep the poor execution for some irrelevant crap like Dubai.

 

[brokenshoelace]

You don't think he bent over today?! Sure it was a huge match but he still bent the hell over!

No, I don't. In fact, I distinctly remember him getting broken in the 4th set, and then fighting to break back, and actually (marginally) raising his game at that instant. That's the very opposite of bending over, otherwise he would have just thrown in the towel at that point. I doubt he got broken to lose the match because he just decided "screw it" and bent over. He got tight on match point, and the crowd didn't help, sure. But "bent over"? How?

 

[DarthFed]

Darth, I like you buddy, I really do, but in the chat, you said "DJokovic is not a factor on fast hards..." Uhh... I know you're disappointed, but come on.

Didn't say that, I just said he isn't someone to be greatly feared there, and I wouldn't bank on him winning another major again aside from AO until he does.

Who would you say is more feared on fast hards?

Nadal, Murray, and a decent in form Roger are greater threats to win there. Note that Nole has a combined 3-6 record against those 3 at USO and we all know 2 of those wins are amongst the biggest chokejobs in recent history. If we extend it to Cincy his record vs. those 3 becomes even worse...

 

[calitennis127]

Darth, I like you buddy, I really do, but in the chat, you said "DJokovic is not a factor on fast hards..." Uhh... I know you're disappointed, but come on.

Didn't say that, I just said he isn't someone to be greatly feared there, and I wouldn't bank on him winning another major again aside from AO until he does.

Who would you say is more feared on fast hards?

Nadal, Murray, and a decent in form Roger are greater threats to win there. Note that Nole has a combined 3-6 record against those 3 at USO and we all know 2 of those wins are amongst the biggest chokejobs in recent history. If we extend it to Cincy his record vs. those 3 becomes even worse...

Darth, I hate to agree with you again, but unfortunately you are right about Djokovic's track record at the US Open. He has underachieved there, particularly in the 3 losses in finals to Nadal and Murray.

 

[calitennis127]

Darth also has a point about Djokovic never winning at Cincinnati - there are reasons for that.

We shouldn't just blame it on fatigue from the prior week every year.....

 

[zalvar]

Novak going AWOL in many of those contributes quite richly to that stat too btw

He goes "AWOL" because he feels pressured to push ... because it's Rafa.

Actual the problem for much of today was all he did was push. Push the ball over the net with no force like Murray. He played a lot of pusher rallies and blasted tons of balls long, into the net, and ended on a double fault. It reminded me of Federer against Nadal to be honest.

Sure it's a great stat but it's not all about Nadal all the time is all I'm saying. His opponents' play in many of these matches has been very poor too.

Well, apparently he was sick soo that's probably why he was "pushing-a-la-Murray" today...
I still thought he played OK, Novak.

Novak clearly didn't play his best. Neither of them did, but as Marian Vajda said on his interview after the match, even though the level wasn't as high as the last 2 years they've met in RG, the match was VERY VERY intense for both of them this year.

There's a reason why Novak "wilts" in the GSs versus Rafa and I think it's party because Rafa has a different mind set and exudes a different aura. That's a hard obstacle to be up against.

Well we'll agree to disagree since unlike most of the other players out there, Novak has a very good record against Rafa and doesn't fear him in the slightest but he always seems to bend over in the big matches. That's more of a poor execution problem Novak has to work badly on at this stage 'cos it's the same against Murray...

Well, you're right. He seems to have no problem doing it in masters. Maybe the pressure of winning a slam is getting in the way of his normal executions. If you think about it, it's been a while since his last slam. He needs that killer instinct back, at least in slams.

 

[Front242]

You don't think he bent over today?! Sure it was a huge match but he still bent the hell over!

No, I don't. In fact, I distinctly remember him getting broken in the 4th set, and then fighting to break back, and actually (marginally) raising his game at that instant. That's the very opposite of bending over, otherwise he would have just thrown in the towel at that point. I doubt he got broken to lose the match because he just decided "screw it" and bent over. He got tight on match point, and the crowd didn't help, sure. But "bent over"? How?

Well it was hardly Ferrer level bending over but frankly wtf was the point in the effort to break back to 4-4 in that 4th set only to throw it away as he did at the end? Hence, my allusion to bending over. Champions perform better under pressure than that and ending on a double fault was just the final nail in the coffin. Nadal actually hit a winning powder puff 77mph serve at one stage and either it was him playing super safe or trying to be clever by throwing Novak off, but either way it worked. Wouldn't it have been better to at least try and keep that last ball in the court for a start? Maybe Nadal takes a swipe at said wimpy serve and nets it and the match isn't over. He handed it to him.

 

[calitennis127]

Well we'll agree to disagree since unlike most of the other players out there, Novak has a very good record against Rafa and doesn't fear him in the slightest but he always seems to bend over in the big matches. That's more of a poor execution problem Novak has to work badly on at this stage 'cos it's the same against Murray...

Well, you're right. He seems to have no problem doing it in masters. Maybe the pressure of winning a slam is getting in the way of his normal executions. If you think about it, it's been a while since his last slam. He needs that killer instinct back, at least in slams.

Well, you have to wonder just how much the realization of what he has missed out on the last couple years is going to crush his spirit when he reflects on the biggest Slam matches.....I hope it doesn't take a toll.

 

[Front242]

He goes "AWOL" because he feels pressured to push ... because it's Rafa.

Actual the problem for much of today was all he did was push. Push the ball over the net with no force like Murray. He played a lot of pusher rallies and blasted tons of balls long, into the net, and ended on a double fault. It reminded me of Federer against Nadal to be honest.

Sure it's a great stat but it's not all about Nadal all the time is all I'm saying. His opponents' play in many of these matches has been very poor too.

Well, apparently he was sick soo that's probably why he was "pushing-a-la-Murray" today...
I still thought he played OK, Novak.

Novak clearly didn't play his best. Neither of them did, but as Marian Vajda said on his interview after the match, even though the level wasn't as high as the last 2 years they've met in RG, the match was VERY VERY intense for both of them this year.

There's a reason why Novak "wilts" in the GSs versus Rafa and I think it's party because Rafa has a different mind set and exudes a different aura. That's a hard obstacle to be up against.

Well we'll agree to disagree since unlike most of the other players out there, Novak has a very good record against Rafa and doesn't fear him in the slightest but he always seems to bend over in the big matches. That's more of a poor execution problem Novak has to work badly on at this stage 'cos it's the same against Murray...

Well, you're right. He seems to have no problem doing it in masters. Maybe the pressure of winning a slam is getting in the way of his normal executions. If you think about it, it's been a while since his last slam. He needs that killer instinct back, at least in slams.

Yup. It's been lacking in all his post 2012 slams finals. He's lost 5 since then. Hence me saying it can't all be about Nadal and Murray.

 

[calitennis127]

You don't think he bent over today?! Sure it was a huge match but he still bent the hell over!

No, I don't. In fact, I distinctly remember him getting broken in the 4th set, and then fighting to break back, and actually (marginally) raising his game at that instant. That's the very opposite of bending over, otherwise he would have just thrown in the towel at that point. I doubt he got broken to lose the match because he just decided "screw it" and bent over. He got tight on match point, and the crowd didn't help, sure. But "bent over"? How?

Well it was hardly Ferrer level bending over but frankly wtf was the point in the effort to break back to 4-4 in that 4th set only to throw it away as he did at the end? Hence, my allusion to bending over. Champions perform better under pressure than that and ending on a double fault was just the final nail in the coffin. Nadal actually hit a winning powder puff 77mph serve at one stage and either it was him playing super safe or trying to be clever by throwing Novak off, but either way it worked. Wouldn't it have been better to at least try and keep that last ball in the court for a start? Maybe Nadal takes a swipe at said wimpy serve and nets it and the match isn't over. He handed it to him.

That one return off of the 10 mph serve that you are referring to was particularly infuriating for sure.

Djokovic's return game was painfully off today.

 

[Front242]

You don't think he bent over today?! Sure it was a huge match but he still bent the hell over!

No, I don't. In fact, I distinctly remember him getting broken in the 4th set, and then fighting to break back, and actually (marginally) raising his game at that instant. That's the very opposite of bending over, otherwise he would have just thrown in the towel at that point. I doubt he got broken to lose the match because he just decided "screw it" and bent over. He got tight on match point, and the crowd didn't help, sure. But "bent over"? How?

Well it was hardly Ferrer level bending over but frankly wtf was the point in the effort to break back to 4-4 in that 4th set only to throw it away as he did at the end? Hence, my allusion to bending over. Champions perform better under pressure than that and ending on a double fault was just the final nail in the coffin. Nadal actually hit a winning powder puff 77mph serve at one stage and either it was him playing super safe or trying to be clever by throwing Novak off, but either way it worked. Wouldn't it have been better to at least try and keep that last ball in the court for a start? Maybe Nadal takes a swipe at said wimpy serve and nets it and the match isn't over. He handed it to him.

That one return off of the 10 mph serve that you are referring to was particularly infuriating for sure.

Djokovic's return game was painfully off today.

Yup, way too many inside the service box that made Nadal's forehands look amazing when in fact they were like practice put aways. The fact that Nadal got away with that serve though means Novak should've at least tried to keep the damn ball in play at the end. Nadal's was 77mph, Novak could've hit it 90-95mph and still made decent placement to keep it in play and who knows, maybe Nadal nets the return or Novak wins the point. Instead he Kermits the match away with a moment of utter muppetry and loses a third match to Nadal on a double fault. :nono

 

[Riotbeard]

You don't think he bent over today?! Sure it was a huge match but he still bent the hell over!

No, I don't. In fact, I distinctly remember him getting broken in the 4th set, and then fighting to break back, and actually (marginally) raising his game at that instant. That's the very opposite of bending over, otherwise he would have just thrown in the towel at that point. I doubt he got broken to lose the match because he just decided "screw it" and bent over. He got tight on match point, and the crowd didn't help, sure. But "bent over"? How?

Well it was hardly Ferrer level bending over but frankly wtf was the point in the effort to break back to 4-4 in that 4th set only to throw it away as he did at the end? Hence, my allusion to bending over. Champions perform better under pressure than that and ending on a double fault was just the final nail in the coffin. Nadal actually hit a winning powder puff 77mph serve at one stage and either it was him playing super safe or trying to be clever by throwing Novak off, but either way it worked. Wouldn't it have been better to at least try and keep that last ball in the court for a start? Maybe Nadal takes a swipe at said wimpy serve and nets it and the match isn't over. He handed it to him.

My guess, Novak wasn't feeling well, but when Rafa looked injured, he thought maybe I can limp across the finish line. Rafa's back injury lasted only 2 games, Novak wilted.


My view: Novak wasn't feeling well. He handled not being 100% physically poorly and choked mentally.

 

[Front242]

You don't think he bent over today?! Sure it was a huge match but he still bent the hell over!

No, I don't. In fact, I distinctly remember him getting broken in the 4th set, and then fighting to break back, and actually (marginally) raising his game at that instant. That's the very opposite of bending over, otherwise he would have just thrown in the towel at that point. I doubt he got broken to lose the match because he just decided "screw it" and bent over. He got tight on match point, and the crowd didn't help, sure. But "bent over"? How?

Well it was hardly Ferrer level bending over but frankly wtf was the point in the effort to break back to 4-4 in that 4th set only to throw it away as he did at the end? Hence, my allusion to bending over. Champions perform better under pressure than that and ending on a double fault was just the final nail in the coffin. Nadal actually hit a winning powder puff 77mph serve at one stage and either it was him playing super safe or trying to be clever by throwing Novak off, but either way it worked. Wouldn't it have been better to at least try and keep that last ball in the court for a start? Maybe Nadal takes a swipe at said wimpy serve and nets it and the match isn't over. He handed it to him.

My guess, Novak wasn't feeling well, but when Rafa looked injured, he thought maybe I can limp across the finish line. Rafa's back injury lasted only 2 games, Novak wilted.


My view: Novak wasn't feeling well. He handled not being 100% physically poorly and choked mentally.

Back injury? He just seemed to be getting tired. People hunch over trying to catch their breath. Either way he screwed up sadly.

 

[Riotbeard]

You don't think he bent over today?! Sure it was a huge match but he still bent the hell over!

No, I don't. In fact, I distinctly remember him getting broken in the 4th set, and then fighting to break back, and actually (marginally) raising his game at that instant. That's the very opposite of bending over, otherwise he would have just thrown in the towel at that point. I doubt he got broken to lose the match because he just decided "screw it" and bent over. He got tight on match point, and the crowd didn't help, sure. But "bent over"? How?

Well it was hardly Ferrer level bending over but frankly wtf was the point in the effort to break back to 4-4 in that 4th set only to throw it away as he did at the end? Hence, my allusion to bending over. Champions perform better under pressure than that and ending on a double fault was just the final nail in the coffin. Nadal actually hit a winning powder puff 77mph serve at one stage and either it was him playing super safe or trying to be clever by throwing Novak off, but either way it worked. Wouldn't it have been better to at least try and keep that last ball in the court for a start? Maybe Nadal takes a swipe at said wimpy serve and nets it and the match isn't over. He handed it to him.

My guess, Novak wasn't feeling well, but when Rafa looked injured, he thought maybe I can limp across the finish line. Rafa's back injury lasted only 2 games, Novak wilted.


My view: Novak wasn't feeling well. He handled not being 100% physically poorly and choked mentally.

Back injury? He just seemed to be getting tired. People hunch over trying to catch their breath. Either way he screwed up sadly.

That was based on the commentary from J-Mac. They interpreted it as Rafa's back hurting, as we all did making back related puns on the live chat. Obviously rafa's back did not flair up in any meaningful way, but it appeared so for a minute.

 

[Iona16]

Congrats to Rafa. A 9th French Open title is just ridiculous.

I have to say I did feel for Novak and his fans. He just wants it too much. I never like to see any player so upset.

I hope that git who called out on match point is proud. Absolutely despicable.

 

[TsarMatt]

Nadal!!!